Talent vs Coaching?

[BullBuchanan]

I find it interesting that an offensive line that has had largely the same cast for 3 season is suddenly garbage. It's undeniable that they're playing like garbage, but how much of this blame lies on the coaches and how much lies on the players?

They were good enough last year to be ranked PFF's 10th best unit, yet the same personnel is now the NFL's worst? I don't buy that these guys all of a sudden can't play football. I think it's far more likely that they're being exploited by what they put out there on tape, and they're refusing to adjust to the adjustments of other teams. Mitch Morse isn't great and Cody Ford is pretty clearly not cut out to be a starting NFL player, but Ike was very good most of last season, and Dawkins and Williams have plenty of tape to show they can play. Even when Feliciano was in, he wasn't playing well either.

Yes, the players have to go out there and get it done, but when guys have shown you in the past that they're good enough, and now they look awful, that's exactly a coaching staff's responsibility to address. They need to diagnose exactly what's going on and make positive steps to address it. Maybe it's a player move, a coaching change, or a scheme adjustment, but ultimately they're responsible when guys don't get it done.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

Edited November 8, 2021 by BullBuchanan

[oldmanfan]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I find it interesting that an offensive line that has had largely the same cast for 3 season is suddenly garbage. It's undeniable that they're playing like garbage, but how much of this blame lies on the coaches and how much lies on the players?

They were good enough last year to be ranked PFF's 10th best unit, yet the same personnel is now the NFL's worst? I don't buy that these guys all of a sudden can't play football. I think it's far more likely that they're being exploited by what they put out there on tape, and they're refusing to adjust to the adjustments of other teams. Mitch Morse isn't great and Cody Ford is pretty clearly not cut out to be a starting NFL player, but Ike was very good most of last season, and Dawkins and Williams have plenty of tape to show they can play.

Yes, the players have to go out there and get it done, but when guys have shown you in the past that they're good enough, and now they look awful, that's exactly a coaching staff's responsibility to address. They need to diagnose exactly what's going on and make positive steps to address it. Maybe it's a player move, a coaching change, or a scheme adjustment, but ultimately they're responsible when guys don't get it done.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

They are physically too weak.  Dawkins has a reason, the others don’t.  Guys are getting pushed straight back way too often.

[Niagara Dude]

36 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I find it interesting that an offensive line that has had largely the same cast for 3 season is suddenly garbage. It's undeniable that they're playing like garbage, but how much of this blame lies on the coaches and how much lies on the players?

They were good enough last year to be ranked PFF's 10th best unit, yet the same personnel is now the NFL's worst? I don't buy that these guys all of a sudden can't play football. I think it's far more likely that they're being exploited by what they put out there on tape, and they're refusing to adjust to the adjustments of other teams. Mitch Morse isn't great and Cody Ford is pretty clearly not cut out to be a starting NFL player, but Ike was very good most of last season, and Dawkins and Williams have plenty of tape to show they can play. Even when Feliciano was in, he wasn't playing well either.

Yes, the players have to go out there and get it done, but when guys have shown you in the past that they're good enough, and now they look awful, that's exactly a coaching staff's responsibility to address. They need to diagnose exactly what's going on and make positive steps to address it. Maybe it's a player move, a coaching change, or a scheme adjustment, but ultimately they're responsible when guys don't get it done.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

The Bills are basically the same team as last season and just do not have enough difference makers.  I see Diggs as only difference maker and that is on both sides of ball.  Even White,  had a chance today to intercept a pass in the end zone and decided to just bat the ball down.  Big time DB'S intercept that ball.  Beane has done nothing to improve roster including doing nothing to improve RB position,  the same position he himself said after loss to Chiefs in title game needed to get better. Trade deadline comes and goes and we do zilch, players get comfortable

 

Like why is Twain Jones on this team and taking up a roster spot,  today after Moss went down we had no depth at RB and Singletary cannot pass block but we cart out Jones who does nothing on ST'S

[MAJBobby]

They were garbage the last couple years too just saying. 
 

josh covered a lot of their warts last year. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

They were garbage the last couple years too just saying. 
 

josh covered a lot of their warts last year. 

This

they were bad last year too, teams just defended like morons vs Allen

 

Now they are treating him like the stud that he is, the line is exposed 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They were garbage the last couple years too just saying. 
 

josh covered a lot of their warts last year. 

So why isn’t Josh covering their warts again this year? Did Josh regress or did our talent on the line regress? 

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So why isn’t Josh covering their warts again this year? Did Josh regress or did our talent on the line regress? 

The league figured it out. And Josh isn’t running as much 

[Milanos Milano]

2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

The league figured it out. And Josh isn’t running as much 

Then blame Beane. He brought in FA linemen and drafted Ford. We are a turnstile and get bullied out there. If this off season isn’t dedicated to the line and a speedster WR, then Beane needs to step down. 

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

So why isn’t Josh covering their warts again this year? Did Josh regress or did our talent on the line regress? 

Neither

 

Teams figured out that it’s fairly easy to defend an offense that is too dependent on QB passes to wideouts

 

The emergence of Knox had the potential to offset these defensive adjustments

 

i don’t think it’s a surprise his injury coincides w our two worst offensive outings

[Milanos Milano]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Neither

 

Teams figured out that it’s fairly easy to defend an offense that is too dependent on QB passes to wideouts

 

The emergence of Knox had the potential to offset these defensive adjustments

 

i don’t think it’s a surprise his injury coincides w our two worst offensive outings

Then we need a total revamp on the line and a star RB in the draft. 

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Then blame Beane. He brought in FA linemen and drafted Ford. We are a turnstile and get bullied out there. If this off season isn’t dedicated to the line and a speedster WR, then Beane needs to step down. 

I do. There is a lot of issues with Beane and McD actually but hard to really frag them without getting tons of hate when they are winning. 

[LABILLBACKER]

15 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

They were garbage the last couple years too just saying. 
 

josh covered a lot of their warts last year. 

Exactly,  they've been mediocre since Josh came. They're just worse collectively this year. I don't buy in to pff anymore than the qbr.

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Exactly,  they've been mediocre since Josh came. They're just worse collectively this year. I don't buy in to pff anymore than the qbr.

PFF grades on OL are as useless as screen windows on a sub. Unless they know the gameplan they have no idea what is a win or loss 

[Milanos Milano]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

PFF grades on OL are as useless as screen windows on a sub. Unless they know the gameplan they have no idea what is a win or loss 

The question is, if our coaches secretly know our Oline is bad, why haven’t they told Beane to make it high priority? This next draft needs to be dedicated to the offense. Our defense is good enough to win. 

[MAJBobby]

3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

The question is, if our coaches secretly know our Oline is bad, why haven’t they told Beane to make it high priority? This next draft needs to be dedicated to the offense. Our defense is good enough to win. 

They thought the DL was worse. They better go OG OG C CB in the next draft. 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

They are physically too weak.  Dawkins has a reason, the others don’t.  Guys are getting pushed straight back way too often.

They don't show any nastiness either. Need a "Incognito" type player or two on offensive line

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Neither

 

Teams figured out that it’s fairly easy to defend an offense that is too dependent on QB passes to wideouts

 

The emergence of Knox had the potential to offset these defensive adjustments

 

i don’t think it’s a surprise his injury coincides w our two worst offensive outings

 

His injury also coincides with Browns injury too and this game add in Mongo.

 

Think what really set the Bills back was counting on Ford.  Last year was his first year at guard, played the first 5 games, got hurt in the 6th, missed the next two came back lasted about a quarter, got hurt again and was out all year. 

 

This year in played all pre-season, looked ok, but really hard to figure out much of anything from pre-season.  So the Bills thought they'd be OK there, but quickly found out they weren't.  But by then didn't have as many options to go to instead and now kind of playing a shell game to cover for it.

[Mark Vader]

24 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I do. There is a lot of issues with Beane and McD actually but hard to really frag them without getting tons of hate when they are winning. 

This is true, and I don't think there is anything wrong with criticizing either of them.

 

The problem with it on this board is that some people, not you @MAJBobby, say a lot of foolish things about McDermott & Beane, and give no real rational analysis.

 

Thus it's difficult to take those comments seriously.

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

I find it interesting that an offensive line that has had largely the same cast for 3 season is suddenly garbage. It's undeniable that they're playing like garbage, but how much of this blame lies on the coaches and how much lies on the players?

They were good enough last year to be ranked PFF's 10th best unit, yet the same personnel is now the NFL's worst? I don't buy that these guys all of a sudden can't play football. I think it's far more likely that they're being exploited by what they put out there on tape, and they're refusing to adjust to the adjustments of other teams. Mitch Morse isn't great and Cody Ford is pretty clearly not cut out to be a starting NFL player, but Ike was very good most of last season, and Dawkins and Williams have plenty of tape to show they can play. Even when Feliciano was in, he wasn't playing well either.

Yes, the players have to go out there and get it done, but when guys have shown you in the past that they're good enough, and now they look awful, that's exactly a coaching staff's responsibility to address. They need to diagnose exactly what's going on and make positive steps to address it. Maybe it's a player move, a coaching change, or a scheme adjustment, but ultimately they're responsible when guys don't get it done.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-offensive-line-rankings

 

I personally never felt they were at top 10 unit last year, despite PFF's rankings.  Not even close.  In the offseason, I said more than once that this was the unit that most worried me.

 

But, yeah, the regression is worrisome.  It does make you wonder about the coaching.  

[ngbills]

And we draft 2nd rounders that are inactive.