Josh Allen vs. Mahomes: Last 32 regular season starts

[Putin]

12 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Dude! Mahomes led his team to 2 SB in 3 years and the other year they went to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game!  (Only playoff losses came to Brady led teams) Yes Mahomes is having a down year but I bet it’s an injury that no one knows about.. Mahomes > Allen right now.. that can change but not for at least another year and Mahomes struggling again. 

Shouldn’t you be deflating 🏈🏈 somewhere ?? 

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

The Ravens could have won that SB with literally any QB.  Kerry Collins threw 4 INTs, one of which was returned for a TD, and the Ravens scored on a KO return.  That was enough to win the game considering the Giants only scored 7 points, from a KO return of their own.

 

I don't disagree with that at all by the way. But they won it with Dilfer. Wins are not a QB stat or a defense stat they are a team stat. The guys on that Ravens team all got rings. They are all winners. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Tyrod Taylor and Rob Johnson are also winners.  They both were on teams that won the super bowl and have rings.

 

I think backups who didn't play it is arguable either way but those guys will have those rings for the rest of their days. You can't take it away from them. 

 

Again I think the problem here might a little bit be the American psyche that kinda projects this winners are people who deserve it. I mean it isn't always true in life generally or in football. Sometimes the people who win don't deserve it. Life isn't a true meritocracy. Trent Dilfer has a ring and Dan Marino doesn't. That feels unfair. But it is a fact. You can't re-write the definition of winner to make it fair. 

[JoPoy88]

16 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Dude! Mahomes led his team to 2 SB in 3 years and the other year they went to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game!  (Only playoff losses came to Brady led teams) Yes Mahomes is having a down year but I bet it’s an injury that no one knows about.. Mahomes > Allen right now.. that can change but not for at least another year and Mahomes struggling again. 

This guy thinks Mac Jones is good, possibly elite 🥸🥸🥸😂🤣😂

[BigDingus]

17 hours ago, Doc said:

Compare the last 2 seasons.  That is, after Josh ascended to elite status.  Josh is the better QB.

 

I don't care who's better in whatever time frame you want to count, I'd still rather have Mahomes' accomplishments (50 TD/MVP season, 2 x SB appearances, 1 x SB win) than anything any other QB has done in the league over the same time frame. 

 

This board has hated Mahomes since he blew up the first year he started. There's a rooting interest in his failure & an understandable bias. That said, I love both the guys, except when we play the Chiefs. Then Mahomes can suck it.

[BuffaloBill]

Passer Rating is a useless comparison. In the end it will come down to W-L’s. Especially w’s in the Super Bowl. They are both elite. 

[Brennan Huff]

19 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Dude! Mahomes led his team to 2 SB in 3 years and the other year they went to the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game!  (Only playoff losses came to Brady led teams) Yes Mahomes is having a down year but I bet it’s an injury that no one knows about.. Mahomes > Allen right now.. that can change but not for at least another year and Mahomes struggling again. 

You are absolutely not allowed to have this opinion here.

[Son of a K-Gun]

17 hours ago, Logic said:

The amount of variables that go into winning football games make “quarterback wins” a ridiculous thing to measure. 
 

Why not measure offensive guard wins? Punter wins? 

I can think of a punter loss 🤔

 

[Son of a K-Gun]

I think a lot of the Allen/Mahomes comparisons come down to the supporting cast, much like any comparison between QB’s.  When one QB is slinging balls to Kelvin Benjamin and Robert Foster of course the QB with Hill and Kelce will look better (and he was better).

 

However, Mahomes’ development may be a victim of his early success.  When he sees results in the form of MVP trophies and Super Bowls, there is little reason for him to spend time on the finer points of his craft.  When things go pear-shaped as they have in 2021, those small flaws become magnified.  I’m no QB-whisperer but I have seen poor mechanics from the jump with Mahomes.  Those cute underhands, sidearms and no looks are one thing when everything is clicking, but when they miss the target or get picked off…not so cute anymore and cue the “What’s wrong with Patrick Mahomes?” takes.

 

Counter that with the progress of Josh Allen.  Every season we hear the stories and see the tape of his workouts with Palmer.  They identify weaknesses and hone his craft.  The results are obvious…he is putting in the work required to become better every year.  And he’s doing that because he has had to.  Success has never come “easy” for Josh Allen, he has had to work his ass off for everything.  It is what makes him a great QB, a great leader and a guy that is fans can so easily root for.  And the best part?  He is still putting that work in even after finding success and recognition.  That’s how we know we have something special in Buffalo.

 

Go Bills.

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think backups who didn't play it is arguable either way but those guys will have those rings for the rest of their days. You can't take it away from them. 

 

Again I think the problem here might a little bit be the American psyche that kinda projects this winners are people who deserve it. I mean it isn't always true in life generally or in football. Sometimes the people who win don't deserve it. Life isn't a true meritocracy. Trent Dilfer has a ring and Dan Marino doesn't. That feels unfair. But it is a fact. You can't re-write the definition of winner to make it fair. 

 

I think its just more of a personal perception thing.  Would I say that Trent Dilfer is a winner?  Yes, he may not have been an elite QB but he was still the QB of a team that won a superbowl on the highest stage of a competitive sport.  Would I say Dan Marino is a winner?  Yes, even though he never got a ring he was one of the best QBs of his time in the highest stage of sports.

[eball]

18 hours ago, The Wiz said:

So do you not believe in pitcher wins and goalie wins also?  Just curious.

 

I don’t. ERA is the most important pitching stat and goals against/save percentage are the most important goalie stats. When those stats are great, that player’s team typically wins. 
 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

Tyrod Taylor and Rob Johnson are also winners.  They both were on teams that won the super bowl and have rings.

Tua as well (well last season when Fitz bailed him out)

 

oh and Tebow and Flutie and ummm Orton? 

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Passer Rating is a useless comparison. In the end it will come down to W-L’s. Especially w’s in the Super Bowl. They are both elite. 

 

Stats are truthful?

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I think its just more of a personal perception thing.  Would I say that Trent Dilfer is a winner?  Yes, he may not have been an elite QB but he was still the QB of a team that won a superbowl on the highest stage of a competitive sport.  Would I say Dan Marino is a winner?  Yes, even though he never got a ring he was one of the best QBs of his time in the highest stage of sports.

 

See I would say Marino was great. I wouldn't say he was a winner. It might be semantics but for me the winner tag is reserved for those who win titles. Being great doesn't make you a winner and being a winner doesn't make you great.

[Rico]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I would say Marino was great. I wouldn't say he was a winner. It might be semantics but for me the winner tag is reserved for those who win titles. Being great doesn't make you a winner and being a winner doesn't make you great.

He was a regular season winner.

[Doc]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't disagree with that at all by the way. But they won it with Dilfer. Wins are not a QB stat or a defense stat they are a team stat. The guys on that Ravens team all got rings. They are all winners. 

 

Dilfer is a SB winner, but he was a bad QB who got lucky by being inserted mid-season for Tony Banks, who just as easily could have been along for the ride with that Ravens team.  Dilfer would even tell you he all he had to do was hand the ball off to Jamal Lewis, let his defense dominate and not make boneheaded plays, which admittedly was hard for him given his overall career.

 

4 hours ago, BigDingus said:

I don't care who's better in whatever time frame you want to count, I'd still rather have Mahomes' accomplishments (50 TD/MVP season, 2 x SB appearances, 1 x SB win) than anything any other QB has done in the league over the same time frame. 

 

This board has hated Mahomes since he blew up the first year he started. There's a rooting interest in his failure & an understandable bias. That said, I love both the guys, except when we play the Chiefs. Then Mahomes can suck it.

 

Fair enough on the first paragraph.  But the biggest question is whether Mahomes is declining or is this just an off-year?  We'll see.

[Dr. Who]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

See I would say Marino was great. I wouldn't say he was a winner. It might be semantics but for me the winner tag is reserved for those who win titles. Being great doesn't make you a winner and being a winner doesn't make you great.

It is semantic and something of an intellectual quibble folks mainly aren't interested in except as a reason to argue over a quibble. Objectively, the winner is the fella, gal, or team that wins the trophy. Whether they do so because of luck, talent, bad officiating, etc. or a combination (frequently the latter) is something one assesses on a case by case basis. In general, one can say having great players increases your odds of winning. I think we have some great players starting with Allen.

[Rico]

Brady is the GOAT, and the only stat that proves it is number of rings.

[FireChans]

Mahome's career: Superbowl win, NFL MVP, Superbowl MVP, All-Pro x3, ProBowl x 3

 

Allen's career: All-Pro x1, ProBowl x1

 

Allen can hopefully be that dude, and Mahomes is slumping right now, but you don't overwrite his first 3 seasons.

22 hours ago, Doc said:

Compare the last 2 seasons.  That is, after Josh ascended to elite status.  Josh is the better QB.

Unfortunately, before Allen ascended to elite status, Mahomes won an MVP and a SuperBowl.

 

Despite the last few weeks, Allen is still chasing Mahomes.

Edited November 7, 2021 by FireChans

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

TUCK gate

Spygate

Smashed phon and Deflategate  

 

Oh and let’s not just ignore the Refs and “Just give it to them” bogus calls.  
 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

FWIW
Mahomes started on a WINNING team with 
Alex Smith and Andy R. 
 

 

JA did not.

 

JA had Zay Jones and Robert Foster as his # 1 & 2 WR’s for goodness sake!