Shout out to Matt Haack

[BringBackFlutie]

20 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Is this the first ever shoutout to a holder?

 

I, for one, am happy that we're back in our comfort zone of deliberating the release of our last punter.  Things were touch and go for a while there.

[Beerball]

20 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Watching the Tyler Bass highlights on the Bills website and noticed how well and quickly he is able to hold the ball for Bass.  Bojo was an absolute trainwreck, and Haack deserves credit for getting the placement correctly and real quick.  Not all the snaps were perfect either.

 

 

His gross avg ranks 28th.

Pinned inside the 20 ranks 28th (tie).

 

Rather than highlighting Haack, should you be asking why McBeane can't find a decent holder who can also rank in the top half of the league in punting?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

They don't.  Bad holds leading to missed FGs flip the field the wrong way.  So eliminating bad holds/holders is what you want to do.

got it, Bass didn't miss too much after after week 3 last season. So wasn't really an issue.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, klos63 said:

got it, Bass didn't miss too much after after week 3 last season. So wasn't really an issue.

 

Didnt miss a field goal in 9 of his last 10 games.

 

[klos63]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I didn't say a good way.  That was my point.

 

A couple posters were concerned with Haack not flipping the field.  We were having the same net result last year, short field for team taking possession on missed field goals.

I get it now. I see your point, but it's not really flipping the field and it's not really fair to blame Bojorquez for Bass's misses. 

[BassToMouth]

21 hours ago, Back2Buff said:

Watching the Tyler Bass highlights on the Bills website and noticed how well and quickly he is able to hold the ball for Bass.  Bojo was an absolute trainwreck, and Haack deserves credit for getting the placement correctly and real quick.  Not all the snaps were perfect either.

 

 

Jeez we could’ve beaten the Texans 70-0.

 

One thing I haven’t seen discussed with regard to Bass is his technique. Specifically how he spins the football. I was a high-level golfer in college and a little professionally, and ball spin is the name of the game. Absolutely critical. 
 

There are many different ways to create different spins with a golf ball, and every ball in every sport obviously has it’s own spins. In pro golf though, there was a pretty large shift among the world’s top players to either develop or keep fade spin (left to right for right-handed players and opposite for left-handed). The fairways are rock hard usually on the PGA Tour, usually more narrow particularly for major championships, and actually designed to promote one spin over the other as far as the ideal approach to that hole based on the undulation and shape of the fairway. 
 

The draw, right to left spin and flight shape for a right-handed player was long considered the way to go. A high draw was even better. Young players were usually taught how to swing with this in mind. A golf ball that’s hit with a draw will have more overspin when it lands, so a long draw hitter would be longer than a long fade hitter. A fade has much less overspin. Any ping pong players or tennis players here? A lot of what I’m referring to is specifically driving the golf ball off the tee. Gets a bit different with approach shots. 
 

I’m talking about driving because it’s most similar to field goal kicking if you were to compare the two sports. Most of you have probably noticed Bass stands a bit more directly behind the ball than the typical NFL kicker who takes a step or two to the side after their couple steps directly back. This angle is similar to trying to hit a golf shot with a draw, more from the inside as they say. Promotes the right to left spin, which like I said, tends to produce more distance. 
 

So why does Bass buck the traditional draw spin approach? Same reason Dustin Johnson and many others on the PGA Tour do, they already have more than enough distance. The fade is more controllable, lands softer (golf), and is far more repeatable in regard to producing a much less wide spread. So a miss with a fade is almost always less severe than a miss with a draw. What Bass does is what in the golf world you’d call a slight push fade. That’s why his flight path tends to be dead straight or starting straight with a slight move to the right. Super repeatable. I’ve seen him hit a few pull fades but the push is his move. He has, however, also shown the ability to use different angles with his foot and leg swing to produce different spins including a draw when needed! This is very high level stuff, and means he has the ability to create the ideal flight path depending on wind, moisture, temperature etc. 

 

Bass is the Dustin Johnson of NFL kicking. We’ve all seen that he has the leg power to make a 70 yard fg. So he has the luxury of hitting a fade instead of a draw. What you have is one of the strongest legs in league history coupled with a technique designed for more control and accuracy and consistency. 
 

Sorry for my ramble here, but I think Bass has a legitimate shot to go down as the best kicker in league history for all these technical reasons, and also of course he has a great head on his shoulders and clear mental toughness. His power push fade might one day cause the same shift in approach with young prospects that players like Dustin Johnson did for the PGA Tour. 
 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by BassToMouth

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 minutes ago, klos63 said:

I get it now. I see your point, but it's not really flipping the field and it's not really fair to blame Bojorquez for Bass's misses. 

 

If the holds weren't laces out, then Bojorquez certainly shares some of the blame.

 

If it was missed field goal from say the 35, that gives the other team  the ball around the 43, whereas if made and kickoff, many go for TB which gives the team the ball on the 25.  If miss was beyond 40 or so, team gets the ball on the other side of the 50.  Excluding the blocked kick and maybe the one shanked last week I haven't seen any other punts from Haack that likely netted 20 + yards less than what Bojorquez  could have done.  Seemed like he had a mindset of wanting to boom his kicks, including quite a few into the end zone for TB.  That also may have been what did him in, coaches told him to take something off to pin them deep, but he'd boom it away.

[Dan Darragh]

Bring back Cory Carter

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

48 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I don’t think it had anything to do with holds, because if my memory is serving me correctly, the Bills tried to re-sign him.

 

Beane made a cryptic comment about how we want people who want to be here.

 

Do recall hearing that and also the comment about being here.  That goes to my point about Bojorquez not wanting to sign a long term deal or maybe was meant as some comment about not listening to coaches enough, who knows.  And again could have been they wanted to re-sign him, but for less money likely due to the Bills not valuing him as much as he valued himself

 

Seems every team claims to want to re-sign every player right until they sign with someone else, just as they have no interest in any other players until they sign them.  So I tend to take those comments with a grain of salt.

[billsfan89]

I was good with the team signing Haack as a punter factoring in his holding being much improved over Bojo. But Haack's punting in Miami while not elite was above average. If he was a great holder and an above-average punter I would take that over a great punter like Bojo who is a bad holder. Right now Haack's punting ranks in the mid to late 20's not good at all hopefully he rebounds the rest of the season.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Didnt miss a field goal in 9 of his last 10 games.

 

And the one he missed was a 61-yarder.

 

[StHustle]

20 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I'd rather have the better holder than the better punter.

 

Bass FGs are crucial, and god forbid our Super Bowl comes down to a last second FG again. I'd rather make the FGs, and put more pressure on our D if/when he shanks a punt.

 

 

I do agree. With how strong our defense is we can afford a shanked punt over a mishandled hold on a crucial field goal.

[Freddie's Dead]

On 11/5/2021 at 7:31 PM, Einstein said:

 

Haack is:

 

27th in average punt

T-27th in punts landing inside the 20

28th in net punting average 

31st in fair catches 

 

He is terrible in every punting statistic that I can find.

 

As for last year…

 

 

 

Bodork also led the league in unilateral fake field goals, so he had that going for him....

[Mike in Horseheads]

Shoutout to Reid Ferguson who snaps the ball the Haack hold so Bass can kick .  I wonder if he's related to to the great Turd Ferguson

[Motorin']

Haak must have read this thread, then decided to hit a 59 yard punt.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:35 PM, Back2Buff said:

Watching the Tyler Bass highlights on the Bills website and noticed how well and quickly he is able to hold the ball for Bass.  Bojo was an absolute trainwreck, and Haack deserves credit for getting the placement correctly and real quick.  Not all the snaps were perfect either.

 

 

 

Not this again...

 

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Not this again...

 

 

Yes, this again. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 

Yes, this again. 

 

Repetition doesn't make it less false.

[msw2112]

I watched just a few minutes of the GB-KC game yesterday.  I saw a FG attempt that Mason Crosby missed.  I noticed, and the TV commentator pointed out, that the ball was not spun properly, as the laces were to the side, not to the front.  Crosby's face right after the missed kick showed that he was pissed off and it appeared that he was pissed off at someone other than himself.  So, another example of a poor hold from Bojo.  To be fair, they also said at another point in the broadcast that the Packers had just signed a new long snapper and that he and Bojo had been working on things, so there is another variable in there that may not be Bojo's fault.

 

For what it's worth, I liked Bojo and hoped the Bills would re-sign him.  I was glad to see Haack with a nice long kick yesterday, but, unforutnatley, the punter and FG holder were the least of the Bills' worries.  Can Bojo or Haack play guard?

[Motorin']

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I watched just a few minutes of the GB-KC game yesterday.  I saw a FG attempt that Mason Crosby missed.  I noticed, and the TV commentator pointed out, that the ball was not spun properly, as the laces were to the side, not to the front.  Crosby's face right after the missed kick showed that he was pissed off and it appeared that he was pissed off at someone other than himself.  So, another example of a poor hold from Bojo.  To be fair, they also said at another point in the broadcast that the Packers had just signed a new long snapper and that he and Bojo had been working on things, so there is another variable in there that may not be Bojo's fault.

 

For what it's worth, I liked Bojo and hoped the Bills would re-sign him.  I was glad to see Haack with a nice long kick yesterday, but, unforutnatley, the punter and FG holder were the least of the Bills' worries.  Can Bojo or Haack play guard?

 

Wish the Bills could have given Haak tried 5-6 attempts at holding fg's yesterday.