Article on Beane - The Athletic

[GoBills808]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

This x100.

Whenever the "Whaley built a great team!" discussion comes up, I always have the same response: Whaley assembled a great collection of talent. I wouldn't say he ever resembled a great TEAM. 

It's why McDermott decided upon arrival to tear the team down to the studs and rebuild it almost from scratch. The culture and player mentalities in place when he arrived simply were not compatible with what McDermott viewed as being necessary to be a championship caliber football team.

There are tons of great NFL rosters -- on paper. Tons of great collections of talent. But a bunch of talented players does not necessarily equal a great team. This is where Beane and McDermott deserve all the credit in the world: finding the right balance between acquiring good football players and assembling a group of hard working, selfless, team-first men who love the game of football and don't just view it as a job. Coach Jauron and his GMs, for instance, were able to acquire many of the latter, but few of the former. Conversely, Whaley acquired many of the former, but few of the latter.

Urban Meyer (?!) said it best this week: This Bills team is one of the best builds in recent league history.

See- Cleveland Browns

[unbillievable]

26 minutes ago, Logic said:

This x100.

Whenever the "Whaley built a great team!" discussion comes up, I always have the same response: Whaley assembled a great collection of talent. I wouldn't say he ever resembled a great TEAM.

 

I think it could work both ways. I would consider the 90's Bills team a great collection of talent, but not a great culture. Part of the reason I think Marv deserved the HOF was because he managed all those egos.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

40 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

How is turnover worthy throws a ridiculous stat? 
 

At the same time, how is moves that make sense a ridiculous metric? 

 

It's because it measures stuff that never happened. A lot stuff could happen, but doesn't.

 

It's like saying Buffalo leads the league in house cats kept out of the stadium.

[Rubes]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with this, and yet it's different now.

 

I think the best way to phrase it is that Whaley had a very good ability to evaluate football talent.  But he didn't seem to be concerned with building a great team.

The talent he brought in were sometimes "I" guys, no "I" in team - and that wasn't curtailed or influenced at the coaching level.

 

So I'm not sure we were just a franchise QB away, although a true franchise QB can apparently do a lot to meld the other guys on offense (and even defense) together.

 

 

 

 

Well said, and I'd also add that I don't think Whaley had quite the same approach to building not just for now but also *for the future*, the way Beane is doing.

 

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

It all starts with the QB.  If you get your Franchise QB, everything *can* falls into place.  Sure the Coach and GM have to make all the other difficult moves; however, they won't matter if they did not pick the right QB.   For that all credit goes to Beane and McDermott

Disagree. Mostly 
it part of the formula and absolutely need to be achieved !
 But you have to surround that QB with proper Coaching and players to develop that QB. as awesome as Josh is , it is still a 3 Team game Of Def and ST. Those are needed for long term success

Team Game includes FO and Coaching.
Pegula's recovered nicely after the Ryan fiasco.

[unbillievable]

Imagine if Beane had picked Rosen...

Would Tyrod be the starter? or Peterman? Josh Allen might be a Dolphin.

 

Would McDermott and Beane still be here?

 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

 

 

They listed the following moves as their rationale for Beane being the top executive:

 

Josh’s extension

Re-Signing Milano

Keeping key role players - Taron Johnson, Levi Wallace, Daryl Williams

Drafting Greg Rousseau 

Supplementing Diggs w/ Emmanuel Sanders

Getting Mitch 

 

 

 

Josh's extension for sure, but that was a no brainer at any price.  they weren't going to squeeze him, nor he them.

 

Milano...I guess.  23.5 guaranteed.  1 TFL since september.  1 full season (rookie) played. missed 6 games last year, 1.5 so far this year. 

 

Johnson is solid.  Levi isn't.  Williams isn't the best player on an unimpressive bottom half O-line.

 

Rousseau could be a beast.

 

Sanders was a good pickup

 

Trubisky is a nonfactor, obviously.  Bills made it to AFCC game last year without anyone caring who the backup was.    If he never plays (Allah be willing), then it's a non move.  Plus he may suck. 

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

This x100.

Whenever the "Whaley built a great team!" discussion comes up, I always have the same response: Whaley assembled a great collection of talent. I wouldn't say they ever resembled a great TEAM. 

It's why McDermott decided upon arrival to tear the team down to the studs and rebuild it almost from scratch. The culture and player mentalities in place when he arrived simply were not compatible with what McDermott viewed as being necessary to be a championship caliber football team.

There are tons of great NFL rosters -- on paper. Tons of great collections of talent. But a bunch of talented players does not necessarily equal a great team. This is where Beane and McDermott deserve all the credit in the world: finding the right balance between acquiring good football players and assembling a group of hard working, selfless, team-first men who love the game of football and don't just view it as a job. Coach Jauron and his GMs, for instance, were able to acquire many of the latter, but few of the former. Conversely, Whaley acquired many of the former, but few of the latter.

Urban Meyer (?!) said it best this week: This Bills team is one of the best builds in recent league history.

Well said Logic....all so true.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Disagree. Mostly 
it part of the formula and absolutely need to be achieved !
 But you have to surround that QB with proper Coaching and players to develop that QB. as awesome as Josh is , it is still a 3 Team game Of Def and ST. Those are needed for long term success

Team Game includes FO and Coaching.
Pegula's recovered nicely after the Ryan fiasco.

 

Nah.   It's mostly the QB.

 

Sometimes you get a dysfunctional combo of HC and GM........the Bills have had more than their share of that..........but the subtle differences between McBeane and many other competent but failed regimes in the NFL really never manifest without an elite QB.

 

They were smart enough to realize that their plan was dead in the water without a stud QB and became the first regime in Bills history to either use their originally slotted #1 pick or trade up from that pick to draft a QB.   And they took the biggest chance on the highest ceiling in Josh Allen.   

 

They also had A LOT of luck.   To be able to pass on Patrick Mahomes, DeShaun Watson and Lamar Jackson in the first round in McDermott's first two drafts with the team and still come out of it with an ELITE QB...........that's an astonishing amount of chances at league-MVP-type QB talent in just 2 drafts.    Their unbelievably easy 2019 schedule was a huge boost as well because they really weren't one of the 12 best teams in the NFL on the hoof that year either.   Their schedule this season is also a clear runway to a deep playoff run.

 

A guy like Andy Reid moving to KC,  with a long track record of success,  can come in and get a team to buy his "process" for a number of years until a QB gets within his reach.     First time nobodies like McBeane needed to nail it because in truth their process was already in crisis by the middle of 2018.   

 

[JGMcD2]

9 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

It's because it measures stuff that never happened. A lot stuff could happen, but doesn't.

 

It's like saying Buffalo leads the league in house cats kept out of the stadium.

Guess I shouldn’t pay for insurance… a lot of things could happen, but they also may not. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited November 5, 2021 by JGMcD2

[unbillievable]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Guess I shouldn’t pay for insurance… a lot of things could happen, but they also may not. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Imagine if you had to report every accident you almost got into to...

[MJS]

16 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

IF EJ Manuel had developed, Whaley would have built a great roster. On paper, 2015 was stacked at every position, but one. His teams were just a Franchise QB away.

We weren't just a franchise QB away. We were a bunch of coaches away too, including the head coach and coordinators. We were also a culture away. We were also a "team" away, instead of just a collection of talent.

 

Whaley could bring in talent, but he couldn't build a team. He also lacked any leadership or accountability whatsoever.

 

I'm glad he didn't find a franchise QB. He was not the man for the job and I am glad he is gone and we now have Beane, someone with vision, leadership, and who knows how to build a team. He does more than just collect talent.

[MJS]

13 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

How is turnover worthy throws a ridiculous stat? 
 

At the same time, how is moves that make sense a ridiculous metric? 

Because what's the difference between a great throw and catch and a "turnover worthy throw"?

 

It's completely subjective. One person might look at a play and say "that was an amazing throw. He fit it into tight coverage" and another might say "the defender was in tight coverage. He never should have made that throw."

 

And it doesn't seem to have correlation to ACTUAL turnovers. Allen has only a few turnovers this season. Last season he did not turn over the ball a ton either. Yet both years he has some of the most "turnover worthy" plays of any QB. It's the stupidest metric.

3 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

Guess I shouldn’t pay for insurance… a lot of things could happen, but they also may not. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Do your rates go up if you almost hit another car? Or if another car almost hits you? Those were "accident worthy" moments on the road.

[ganesh]

16 hours ago, 3rdand12 said:

Disagree. Mostly 
it part of the formula and absolutely need to be achieved !
 But you have to surround that QB with proper Coaching and players to develop that QB. as awesome as Josh is , it is still a 3 Team game Of Def and ST. Those are needed for long term success

Team Game includes FO and Coaching.
Pegula's recovered nicely after the Ryan fiasco.

You are missing the point.  What I meant was that if you don’t have that QB you have zero chance of winning inspite of being strong everywhere else 

[JGMcD2]

6 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Imagine if you had to report every accident you almost got into to...

Haha fair enough 😂

[JGMcD2]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Because what's the difference between a great throw and catch and a "turnover worthy throw"?

 

It's completely subjective. One person might look at a play and say "that was an amazing throw. He fit it into tight coverage" and another might say "the defender was in tight coverage. He never should have made that throw."

 

And it doesn't seem to have correlation to ACTUAL turnovers. Allen has only a few turnovers this season. Last season he did not turn over the ball a ton either. Yet both years he has some of the most "turnover worthy" plays of any QB. It's the stupidest metric.

I need AWS to do this with their catch probability technology… there would be some validity behind that. 

[The Frankish Reich]

17 hours ago, unbillievable said:

 

It's because it measures stuff that never happened. A lot stuff could happen, but doesn't.

 

It's like saying Buffalo leads the league in house cats kept out of the stadium.

Re: "turnover worthy throws"

Yes, measures like this are imprecise. Someone needs to watch video and make a judgement call.

But ... that doesn't mean it's not worth doing. The new age of defensive stats in baseball caused a sea change in how the game is played and how rosters are constructed. The best measures (we don't have many baseball fans here; those that are can check fangraphs for a player and scroll down to "advanced defensive stats") divide the field into zones and determine which fielders turn more (or less) batted balls into outs than others. Crude old defensive stats like fielding percentage include a huge element of luck - the same kind of luck that results in a poorly thrown football NOT being intercepted, or a well thrown pass bouncing off a receiver's hands and turning into an interception. You better believe all good NFL teams analyze these things in house and coaches rely on them in player evaluation.

[3rdand12]

On 11/5/2021 at 8:04 AM, ganesh said:

You are missing the point.  What I meant was that if you don’t have that QB you have zero chance of winning inspite of being strong everywhere else 

darnit

I do loathe when I miss the point>

Peterman at QB will get you 1st pick in the draft. Regardless of surrounding cast. agreed