How do you deep down, really feel about this defense?

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

18 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So right now as it stands, the Bills are #1 in the NFL in total yards, points and turnovers (tied) on defense. 

 

Am I the only one who doesn't think they are as good as the stats show?

 

I certainly think this is a good defense but I don't feel they're elite.  Their numbers are elite but I'm not there yet with them.

 

What about yous guys?

I think they are play very good and should even improve barring injury. I was trying to get the Bills defense in FFL in the 14th rd but someone took them before me, 1st defense picked.

[JaCrispy]

I liked our 2014 D better...they were nastier 👍

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

Despite the stats I don't trust our DEF to play well against good offenses, or to step up and win a game in the clutch. 

 

If a 1 score game is coming down to the final possession I would want to see Josh and the offense out there 10 out of 10 times instead of relying on the DEF for a stop.

 

The DEF is certainly good enough to win a SuperBowl, although not good enough to carry the team to a Superbowl (like the Ravens or Bears). 

[Green Lightning]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean this year that just isn't true.

Against inferior teams, agree. Against the Titans we couldn't get off the field. Even Tua converted several 3rd and longs. Let's see how we do against Tampa. I don't care about stats that include the bad teams, we struggle to get off the field against playoff caliber teams that we will need to beat to win it all. Our pass rush just can't finish.

[PatsFanNH]

IMO they been what you want in a D. They are dominating weaker O’s so far on your schedule and making those games easier wins.  As for good teams they haven’t faced enough good Os to know yet.. I think after the stretch from Indy to Tampa Bay we will know just how good or bad they are. 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

Against inferior teams, agree. Against the Titans we couldn't get off the field. Even Tua converted several 3rd and longs. Let's see how we do against Tampa. I don't care about stats that include the bad teams, we struggle to get off the field against playoff caliber teams that we will need to beat to win it all. Our pass rush just can't finish.

 

Tennessee were 4 of 10 on third down. It is fair to point out that all 4 of those conversions were 3rd and 6 or longer, but that is still pretty good going, Tennesee's season average on 3rd down conversion is 43%, the Bills kept them below that. 

 

Miami were 4 of 14 on third down. 3 of their 4 conversions were 3rd and 6 or longer but one of those was by penalty rather than by play. Miami average 40% on third down for the season the Bills kept them to 28%.

 

Could the defense have played better against Tennessee, yep, especially second half. That said, 3rd down wasn't the issue. Only two of those third down conversions were in the second half. The Bills issue against the Titans is they lose too often on first down which gives them really favourable either way down and distance on 2nd down and that is when they kill you with play action. Have done two years running.

 

But I think you have to have realistic expectations about what good defenses look like in the NFL in 2021. There are no dominant defenses. The league is dominated by offense. The stat about scoring within the final 2 minutes being way up is just one evidence point. Defense is not about stopping teams anymore. The rules and the skill of the Quarterbacks and receiver just don't allow it. The best you can do against good teams is restrict them. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Not good enough 

 

🤪😄

[YattaOkasan]

5 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Good, but not great.  In our two games against bonafide NFL offenses, we've given up an average of 27 points.  We need an elite guy on the front four to take it to the next level.

Ahh... this is still just saying we had ONE bad game.  Our game against KC is one of the best defensive performance against Mahomes (I found a total of 3 lower QB ratings than our game).  They had 1 bad game where they gave up 143 rushing yards on 20 attempts to a guy not playing the rest of the season.

[Doc Brown]

I'd pry only take the Steelers, Panthers, and Rams over them.  We have a top five defense.

[YattaOkasan]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'd pry only take the Steelers, Panthers, and Rams over them.  We have a top five defense.

Id pass on the Panthers.  I like what were doing better.  30+ points to the Vikings ughh....  Panthers are doing well to keep yards down but Bills are getting takeaways.  Also if were on the subject of teams that havent played anyone can I have the Panthers for 100 Doc

Edited November 2, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[Doc Brown]

2 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Id pass on the Panthers.  I like what were doing better.  30+ points to the Vikings ughh....  Panthers are doing well to keep yards down but Bills are getting takeaways.  Also if were on the subject of teams that havent played anyone can I have the Panthers for 100 Doc

And we allowed 30 plus to the Titans.  I'm not making the who they've played argument.  From a pure talent and depth perspective I believe they're a little better.

[JerseyBills]

6 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

Good, but not great.  In our two games against bonafide NFL offenses, we've given up an average of 27 points.  We need an elite guy on the front four to take it to the next level.

Say What?!?!

D is playing elite and dominating every stat category.  

We get pressure at an enormous pace. 

Big Ed, Star, Groot ,Hughes ,Addison all playing consistently great.

 

Boogie and AJ have had their moments but Don't play consistently.  

Our DL has been playing very well. 

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, Doc Brown said:

And we allowed 30 plus to the Titans.  I'm not making the who they've played argument.  From a pure talent and depth perspective I believe they're a little better.

Sorry I know you werent making the who weve played arguement that was others. 

 

Although since you brought up 30+ to the Titans (understandable), I would say they have given up 30+ to the Cowboys (understandable) and Vikings (less understandable).  We have also put up one of the best defensive performance (top 5 by QB rating) against Mahomes. 

 

From talent, our Coverage def seems better (more picks in less games) and their rush seems better so maybe youre a pass rush type of guy...?  I dont really see big differences in talent elsewhere.  Depth I dont agree as they have a couple of Bills cast offs playing for them.  Why do you think their depth is better...?  

 

[TH3]

23 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

So right now as it stands, the Bills are #1 in the NFL in total yards, points and turnovers (tied) on defense. 

 

Am I the only one who doesn't think they are as good as the stats show?

 

I certainly think this is a good defense but I don't feel they're elite.  Their numbers are elite but I'm not there yet with them.

 

What about yous guys?

Can the mods collect all these threads into a single “I need to find something wrong and drag everyone in” thread?

 

FFS be happy …They are a SB contender….that’s all you can ask for…

[Logic]

I think we have the exact style of defense you need to win consistently in the modern NFL: Seemingly simple but, in reality, quite complex mix of Cover 3 and Cover 4 looks that show you one thing pre-snap and then rotate to something different post snap. Fast, sideline-to-sideline linebacker duo that often erases the middle of the field. The only thing we're missing is a consistent pass rush from our front four. Hopefully that changes as Epenesa and Rousseau and Basham progress. Add that in and you've got exactly the type of defense that the 2021 NFL calls for.

Also, with a few years of results now in, I see this pattern: This defense consistently shuts down average QBs and inferior QBs, but more often than not looks somewhat average against high quality QBs. This defense consistently dominates the offenses that it "should" dominate". They rarely ***** the bed against teams they're "supposed to" beat. On the other hand, high quality quarterbacks are smart enough to crack our defense's code enough of the time that they'll usually produce yardage and points against us. This isn't a bad thing. If the Bills win the games they "should" win every season and dominate lesser QBs, that usually means 10 wins.

The problem, of course, is that once you get to the playoffs, you're usually facing good quarterbacks. The Bills under McDermott have yet to limit those types of quarterbacks in playoff games. They shut down Jackson last year, sure, but he's not exactly a dominant passer at this point in his career. Watson, Rivers, and Mahomes all ate our defense's lunch.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, TH3 said:

Can the mods collect all these threads into a single “I need to find something wrong and drag everyone in” thread?

 

FFS be happy …They are a SB contender….that’s all you can ask for…

 

How did you get "I need to find something wrong..." out of this thread when I specifically said I think this defense is good but not convinced it's elite yet.

 

"The defense is good" ...."OH FFS be happy"

[TheBrownBear]

8 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Say What?!?!

D is playing elite and dominating every stat category.  

We get pressure at an enormous pace. 

Big Ed, Star, Groot ,Hughes ,Addison all playing consistently great.

 

Boogie and AJ have had their moments but Don't play consistently.  

Our DL has been playing very well. 

Tua, Brissett, Heinicke, Davis Mills, washed up Roethlisberger and flailing Mahomes (who has looked like absolute crap in about half of his starts this season).

 

I think our defense is good, maybe very good, but I don't believe it's elite - which, based on our soft schedule, we won't be able to assess until the Tampa game and then the playoffs.

[Doc Brown]

34 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Sorry I know you werent making the who weve played arguement that was others. 

 

Although since you brought up 30+ to the Titans (understandable), I would say they have given up 30+ to the Cowboys (understandable) and Vikings (less understandable).  We have also put up one of the best defensive performance (top 5 by QB rating) against Mahomes. 

 

From talent, our Coverage def seems better (more picks in less games) and their rush seems better so maybe youre a pass rush type of guy...?  I dont really see big differences in talent elsewhere.  Depth I dont agree as they have a couple of Bills cast offs playing for them.  Why do you think their depth is better...?  

 

Yeah.  That's basically what it comes down to as they're close talent wise.  Burns, Reddick, and Jones are studs.  Gross-Matos and Brown provide great young depth.  Keep in mind that we've been healthy and they gave up all those points without Shaq Thompson in the lineup and lost their rookie first round CB for the year.  The addition of Gilmore will help.

Edited November 2, 2021 by Doc Brown

[Boatdrinks]

Top unit that lacks an elite DL or LB in the front 7. An elite level group that is greater than the sum of its parts. They’ll finish in the top ten at the end of the regular season and possibly the top 5. Not flashy, very efficient.