The Edmunds Report - Week 8, Fish v. Bills, 10/31/21

[Freddie's Dead]

The Week 8 Fish v. Bills edition of The Edmunds Report is here.  I will state what I see on a play, then assign a point system -1, 0, +1, and keep a running total.  I'll ignore plays where he's not involved and only look at coverage if he's onscreen (I don't have the All-22).  Based on feedback, I'll also be looking at plays where 49 is rushing the passer to determine his relative effectiveness there.  Let's go to the tape.

 

Fish 1st possession

1st and 10 Fish 26 -  Middle run to Gaskin, 49 cleans up on Taron Johnson tackle for 1 yd gain (+1,+1)

2nd and 9, Fish 27 - 49 drops, Tua runs around, tackled and throws incomplete left, looked like a sack from here (+1,+2)

1st and 10, Fish 50 - 49 screened away from middle run by Gaskin for 7 yd gain (-1,+1)

2 and 3, Bills 43 - 49 drops, Tua airmails it over Levi's head (+1,+2)

3rd and 3, Bills 43 - 49 blitzes, stoned, Tua completes left pass to Waddle for 1st down, but 49 chases him down and makes tackle after Tre' misses the tackle (0,+2)  They call 49 for the offside, but this was the offside by Addison

1st and 10, Bills 36 - Middle run, 49 blocked upfield, Hyde on tackle for 4 yard gain (0,+2)

2nd and 6, Bills 32 - 49 drops, Tua completes 1st down pass in a tight window between 49 and Cookie (-1,+1)

1st and 10, Bills 23 - 49 overruns hole to left, Gaskins 5 yds. (-1,0)

2nd and 5, Bills 18 - 49 blitzes, stoned by OT, Tua throws incomplete left (0,0) 

3rd and 5, Bills 18 - 49 drops, Tua throws short and Cookie makes immediate 2 yd TFL (+1,+1), forcing FG, which the Fish MISSIT, NOONAN, MISS....

 

Fish 2nd possession
1st and 15, Fish 20 - 49 drops, Tua completes quick slant to Parker, again in a tight window between 48 and Cookie for a 14 yd gain (-1,0)

2nd and 1, Fish 34 - 49 goes left, Gaskin cuts back, 49 makes tackle, but not until Gaskin gets the 1st down (-1,-1)

1st and 10, Fish 41 - 49 bites hard on PA, Tua hits Parker in the hole behind 49 for 15 yards and a 1st down (-1,-2)

2nd and 15, Bills 49 - 49 drops, Tua has nowhere to go, and ADDISON WITH THE SACK! (+1,-1)

 

Fish 3rd possession

1st and 10, Fish 35 - Gaskin middle run, 49 holds up and stuffs him for a 2 yd gain (+1,0)

2nd and 8, Fish 37 - 49 sheds a block and pounds Ahmed for a 2 yd gain (+1,+1)

3rd and 6, Fish 39 - 49 drops, Gaskin makes the catch on the circle route, 49 misses the tackle, 22 yard gain (-1,0)  Lots of pre-snap confusion, McD running up the sideline missed calling the TO, which we clearly needed on this play

1st and 10, Bills 39 - 49 blocked downfield, 5 yard gain by Ahmed (-1,-1)

2nd and 5, Bills 34 - 49 overruns play, Ahmed cuts back for 3 yard gain (0,-1)

3rd and 2, Bills 31 - Gaskin up the gut, 49 fights through traffic to clean up 2 yard TFL with Hyde and Oliver , bringing up 4th down (+1,0)

 

Fish 4th possession

2nd and 10, Fish 7 - Ahmed cutback OT run, 49 caught up inside, chases to assist on tackle, but after 12 yard run for 1st down (-1,-1)

2nd and 2, Fish 39 - Gaskin middle run, 49 overruns it, chases from behind to make tackle, but after 1st down (-1,-2)

1st and 10, Fish 42 - 49 drops, quick buttonhook to Gesicki, Cookie misses tackle, but 49 cleans up for 3 yard gain (+1,-1)

2nd and 7, Fish 45 - 49 run blitz, chases down and makes tackle after 1 yard gain (+1,0)

3rd and 11, Fish 41 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but Tua throws INC (0,0)

 

Fish 5th possession

No plays involved 49 after the IG on Josh and the fumble recovery by Hyde

 

First half observations

Extremely uneven half for 49.  I get why my boy @Ralonzohad him at -6, he had a ton of negative plays in the 1st half.  Made a couple of nice TFLs, but also overran plays and allowed Tua to make completions in tight windows.  His two worst plays were biting on the PA fake and giving Parker a 1st down, and the missed tackle on the Gaskins circle route.  We need better from 49 in the 2nd half.

 

Fish 6th possession

1st and 10, Fish 21 - 49 holds at point of attack, 2 yard run for Gaskin (+1,+1)

2nd and 8, Fish 23 - 49 blitzing on an all-out jailbreak, Tua lobs a ball in the flat for 1 yd (+1,+2)

3rd and 7, Fish 24 - 49 drops, Tua scrambles short of 1st down (+1,+3)

 

Fish 7th possession

1st and 10, Fish 46 - 49 drops, Tua goes to Gaskin in the flat, and COOKIE DESTROYS HIM!!! (+1,+4)  That hit woke the Bills up, and it was over for the Fish, they just didn't know it yet 

2nd and 11, Fish 45 - 49 drops, Tua under pressure with nowhere to go, lobs it OB to avoid the sack (+1,+5)

3rd and 11, Fish 45 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but other pressure causes Tua to throw INC (0,+5)

 

Fish 8th possession

1st and 10, Fish 17 - 49 holds point of attack, blocked away, but Ahmed held for 1 yd gain (0,+5)

3rd and 2, Fish 25 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but Tua throws INC (0,+5)

 

Fish 9th possession

2nd and 5, Fish 42 - Handoff to Gaskin on a sweep, 49 sniffs it out and destroys Gaskin for a 1 yd TFL (+1,+6) Refs spotted it at the 42, but it was clearly a 1 yd TFL, refs screwing us again

1st and Goal, Bills 4 (after the refs had no call on Groot helmet popping off, or Gesicki's push off, joke) - 49 cracks Gaskin in the hole, except Tua kept the RPO and got to the 1 (-1,+5) First negative play of the half for 49

2nd and Goal, Bills 1 - 49 picks the wrong hole, as Gaskin scores (-1,+4)

 

Fish 10th possession

49 was not significantly involved on any of the Fish plays on this possession

 

Fish 11th possession

49 was not significantly involved on any of the Fish plays on this possession

 

Conclusions

1.  As bad as his first half was, 49's 2nd half was amazing.  His only negative plays in the 2nd half came on the goal line after the refs ignored Groot's helmet popping off like Rock 'em, Sock 'em Robots and an Angry Run quality stiff arm by Gesicki on Micah Hyde.

2.  49 rushed the passer more in this game than he has the entire rest of the season.  It's clearly not his strength, as he will typically run into blockers and has no moves to avoid them.

3.  Still bites too hard on play action.  The way we were controlling the Fish run game, he should have ignored it and dropped into coverage.

4.  When 49 gets there, he brings the WOOD!!  Lots of punishment handed out by 49 this week.

5.  If 49's first half had been even average, he would have deserved a game ball.  

 

49 grades overall:

Squeelers - B+ 

Fish - INC (DVR #### the bed)

WTF's - B- 

Erlers - A+ 

Chefs - A- 

Titians - C 

Fish - B (1st half dragged down the grade)

Edited November 1, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[Ralonzo]

To be fair, I tend to notice more when a friggin' pass catching tight end is pushing Edmunds 10 yards down the field like he was maglev'd

[Freddie's Dead]

3 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

To be fair, I tend to notice more when a friggin' pass catching tight end is pushing Edmunds 10 yards down the field like he was maglev'd

 

He had a bad first half, no doubt.

[Royale with Cheese]

If he could get off blocks better and more consistently....he would be a top 3 MLB.

You see the ground he can cover when he's clean or not caught in traffic.  

 

He's still too hit and miss.  I think overall, he's better than last year.  He's solid, I wish he was great because of his physical abilities.

[LABILLBACKER]

He'll never be a good pass rusher or blitzer. He's marginal on selecting the right gap or getting off blocks. He's great on man pass coverage and kinda worthless when he drops back in zone coverage. It is what it is. He might stick around but he's not getting a huge contract. 

[thenorthremembers]

Dolphins ran the same play to Parker the Titans ran to Brown.  Play action, Edmunds steps forward out of his zone and nail the crosser.  He was horrendous today and below average on the year.  

Edited November 1, 2021 by thenorthremembers

[Brand J]

I’m ready to move on from Edmunds. Hopefully the FO isn’t still drunk with his potential and will be looking for his replacement in the off-season. 

[Bing Bong]

I think I'm mostly frustrated because he could be so much better.

 

I see other linebackers, watching Barr tonight closely.. granted these are the really good ones.. with half his athleticism just always being around the ball craving contact.

 

It's just instinctual. I think he's been good, not great, certainly improved, but he seems pretty stagnant on playing as a finesse MLB

Edited November 1, 2021 by FormerlyPT5P

[Pbomb]

45 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Dolphins ran the same play to Parker the Titans ran to Brown.  Play action, Edmunds steps forward out of his zone and nail the crosser.  He waa horrendous today and below average on the year.  

We get it, you hate Edmunds. You don’t have to bring it up in every thread 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

He'll never be a good pass rusher or blitzer. He's marginal on selecting the right gap or getting off blocks. He's great on man pass coverage and kinda worthless when he drops back in zone coverage. It is what it is. He might stick around but he's not getting a huge contract. 

 

I think he's actually good in zone coverage.  He hasn't given up too many passes for big gains in zone.  Agree on pass rusher, he clearly doesn't have that skill.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[Ethan in Cleveland]

7 weeks into this season, I think Edmunds is playing better than last year for sure.  I'm happy for him and the team.  He is still not playing great - certainly not to the level of his draft position or the hype. He has made a few difference making plays but not many.   Agree the tackle on Gaskins was the highlight today.  But it was what Edmunds does best, run unblocked and make a solid hit on a guy before he can make a move.  A slower player doesn't get there fast enough and the RB can make a move to make him miss.  A smaller LB may not bring him down on first contact.   Edmunds combo of size and speed was on full display there.  A+ on that play.  

 

[LABILLBACKER]

18 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I think he's actually good in zone coverage.  He hasn't given up too many passes for big gains in zone.  Agree on pass rusher, he clearly doesn't have that skill.

I just don't value a LB dropping back into open grass guarding "open grass". Hoping someone just happens to run a cross route right in front of him. Sorry but for a 1st rounder that we traded up for I need an occassional TFL, maybe a deflected ball that turns into an INT. Asking for a FF would be way too much to ask. He's a mediocre MLB who does what McD asks of him, and makes just enough plays for conversation to be directed elsewhere. Some fans like him more than others.

[Rigotz]

It’s unfortunate that he’s in a contract year next year because he’s going to be paid a ton and frankly, doesn’t deserve it.

 

I would take him for a “B average” salary like $8MM per for the next 10 years, but unfortunately, he’ll get way more from us or someone else.

[billybrew1]

2 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

The Week 8 Fish v. Bills edition of The Edmunds Report is here.  I will state what I see on a play, then assign a point system -1, 0, +1, and keep a running total.  I'll ignore plays where he's not involved and only look at coverage if he's onscreen (I don't have the All-22).  Based on feedback, I'll also be looking at plays where 49 is rushing the passer to determine his relative effectiveness there.  Let's go to the tape.

 

Fish 1st possession

1st and 10 Fish 26 -  Middle run to Gaskin, 49 cleans up on Taron Johnson tackle for 1 yd gain (+1,+1)

2nd and 9, Fish 27 - 49 drops, Tua runs around, tackled and throws incomplete left, looked like a sack from here (+1,+2)

1st and 10, Fish 50 - 49 screened away from middle run by Gaskin for 7 yd gain (-1,+1)

2 and 3, Bills 43 - 49 drops, Tua airmails it over Levi's head (+1,+2)

3rd and 3, Bills 43 - 49 blitzes, stoned, Tua completes left pass to Waddle for 1st down, but 49 chases him down and makes tackle after Tre' misses the tackle (0,+2)  They call 49 for the offside, but this was the offside by Addison

1st and 10, Bills 36 - Middle run, 49 blocked upfield, Hyde on tackle for 4 yard gain (0,+2)

2nd and 6, Bills 32 - 49 drops, Tua completes 1st down pass in a tight window between 49 and Cookie (-1,+1)

1st and 10, Bills 23 - 49 overruns hole to left, Gaskins 5 yds. (-1,0)

2nd and 5, Bills 18 - 49 blitzes, stoned by OT, Tua throws incomplete left (0,0) 

3rd and 5, Bills 18 - 49 drops, Tua throws short and Cookie makes immediate 2 yd TFL (+1,+1), forcing FG, which the Fish MISSIT, NOONAN, MISS....

 

Fish 2nd possession
1st and 15, Fish 20 - 49 drops, Tua completes quick slant to Parker, again in a tight window between 48 and Cookie for a 14 yd gain (-1,0)

2nd and 1, Fish 34 - 49 goes left, Gaskin cuts back, 49 makes tackle, but not until Gaskin gets the 1st down (-1,-1)

1st and 10, Fish 41 - 49 bites hard on PA, Tua hits Parker in the hole behind 49 for 15 yards and a 1st down (-1,-2)

2nd and 15, Bills 49 - 49 drops, Tua has nowhere to go, and ADDISON WITH THE SACK! (+1,-1)

 

Fish 3rd possession

1st and 10, Fish 35 - Gaskin middle run, 49 holds up and stuffs him for a 2 yd gain (+1,0)

2nd and 8, Fish 37 - 49 sheds a block and pounds Ahmed for a 2 yd gain (+1,+1)

3rd and 6, Fish 39 - 49 drops, Gaskin makes the catch on the circle route, 49 misses the tackle, 22 yard gain (-1,0)  Lots of pre-snap confusion, McD running up the sideline missed calling the TO, which we clearly needed on this play

1st and 10, Bills 39 - 49 blocked downfield, 5 yard gain by Ahmed (-1,-1)

2nd and 5, Bills 34 - 49 overruns play, Ahmed cuts back for 3 yard gain (0,-1)

3rd and 2, Bills 31 - Gaskin up the gut, 49 fights through traffic to clean up 2 yard TFL with Hyde and Oliver , bringing up 4th down (+1,0)

 

Fish 4th possession

2nd and 10, Fish 7 - Ahmed cutback OT run, 49 caught up inside, chases to assist on tackle, but after 12 yard run for 1st down (-1,-1)

2nd and 2, Fish 39 - Gaskin middle run, 49 overruns it, chases from behind to make tackle, but after 1st down (-1,-2)

1st and 10, Fish 42 - 49 drops, quick buttonhook to Gesicki, Cookie misses tackle, but 49 cleans up for 3 yard gain (+1,-1)

2nd and 7, Fish 45 - 49 run blitz, chases down and makes tackle after 1 yard gain (+1,0)

3rd and 11, Fish 41 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but Tua throws INC (0,0)

 

Fish 5th possession

No plays involved 49 after the IG on Josh and the fumble recovery by Hyde

 

First half observations

Extremely uneven half for 49.  I get why my boy @Ralonzohad him at -6, he had a ton of negative plays in the 1st half.  Made a couple of nice TFLs, but also overran plays and allowed Tua to make completions in tight windows.  His two worst plays were biting on the PA fake and giving Parker a 1st down, and the missed tackle on the Gaskins circle route.  We need better from 49 in the 2nd half.

 

Fish 6th possession

1st and 10, Fish 21 - 49 holds at point of attack, 2 yard run for Gaskin (+1,+1)

2nd and 8, Fish 23 - 49 blitzing on an all-out jailbreak, Tua lobs a ball in the flat for 1 yd (+1,+2)

3rd and 7, Fish 24 - 49 drops, Tua scrambles short of 1st down (+1,+3)

 

Fish 7th possession

1st and 10, Fish 46 - 49 drops, Tua goes to Gaskin in the flat, and COOKIE DESTROYS HIM!!! (+1,+4)  That hit woke the Bills up, and it was over for the Fish, they just didn't know it yet 

2nd and 11, Fish 45 - 49 drops, Tua under pressure with nowhere to go, lobs it OB to avoid the sack (+1,+5)

3rd and 11, Fish 45 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but other pressure causes Tua to throw INC (0,+5)

 

Fish 8th possession

1st and 10, Fish 17 - 49 holds point of attack, blocked away, but Ahmed held for 1 yd gain (0,+5)

3rd and 2, Fish 25 - 49 blitzes, stoned, but Tua throws INC (0,+5)

 

Fish 9th possession

2nd and 5, Fish 42 - Handoff to Gaskin on a sweep, 49 sniffs it out and destroys Gaskin for a 1 yd TFL (+1,+6) Refs spotted it at the 42, but it was clearly a 1 yd TFL, refs screwing us again

1st and Goal, Bills 4 (after the refs had no call on Groot helmet popping off, or Gesicki's push off, joke) - 49 cracks Gaskin in the hole, except Tua kept the RPO and got to the 1 (-1,+5) First negative play of the half for 49

2nd and Goal, Bills 1 - 49 picks the wrong hole, as Gaskin scores (-1,+4)

 

Fish 10th possession

49 was not significantly involved on any of the Fish plays on this possession

 

Fish 11th possession

49 was not significantly involved on any of the Fish plays on this possession

 

Conclusions

1.  As bad as his first half was, 49's 2nd half was amazing.  His only negative plays in the 2nd half came on the goal line after the refs ignored Groot's helmet popping off like Rock 'em, Sock 'em Robots and an Angry Run quality stiff arm by Gesicki on Micah Hyde.

2.  49 rushed the passer more in this game than he has the entire rest of the season.  It's clearly not his strength, as he will typically run into blockers and has no moves to avoid them.

3.  Still bites too hard on play action.  The way we were controlling the Fish run game, he should have ignored it and dropped into coverage.

4.  When 49 gets there, he brings the WOOD!!  Lots of punishment handed out by 49 this week.

5.  If 49's first half had been even average, he would have deserved a game ball.  

 

49 grades overall:

Squeelers - B+ 

Fish - INC (DVR #### the bed)

WTF's - B- 

Erlers - A+ 

Chefs - A- 

Titians - C 

Fish - B (1st half dragged down the grade)

How the hell did he get a C for the titans game? He was the only guy we had that could make a  tackle.

 

I missed your report that week..... : (

 

I think Edmunds is having his best year, a bright spot this year, yet he looks like he still could be a lot better...

[Cash]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

I’m ready to move on from Edmunds. Hopefully the FO isn’t still drunk with his potential and will be looking for his replacement in the off-season. 

I’m glad to know you’re ready to move on. What did Beane say when you broke the news?

[Nelius]

Great writeup, found myself agreeing with pretty much all of it. He was a force in the 2nd half, was everywhere. Loved that play late in the game when he blew up Gaskins, and there was a split second during that play where you could tell that no running back in the league would stand a chance as long as Tremaine does his job. He will swallow you. He weirdly reminds me of a spider out there, he's just so much larger than everybody else, apex predator. Still seems to play softer than his size but I don't think he's ever going to be that thumper that gives you 8 sacks which is largely why people don't know what to think of him, but as long as he disrupts the passing game as much as he does and blows up runs like that a couple times a game I'm cool.

[Freddie's Dead]

30 minutes ago, billybrew1 said:

How the hell did he get a C for the titans game? He was the only guy we had that could make a  tackle.

 

I missed your report that week..... : (

 

I think Edmunds is having his best year, a bright spot this year, yet he looks like he still could be a lot better...

 

As I said in the report, my grade was likely colored by the loss.

[Brand J]

42 minutes ago, Cash said:

I’m glad to know you’re ready to move on. What did Beane say when you broke the news?

He told me “noted,” then proceeded to ask my opinion of other players 😂

[Rochesterfan]

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I just don't value a LB dropping back into open grass guarding "open grass". Hoping someone just happens to run a cross route right in front of him. Sorry but for a 1st rounder that we traded up for I need an occassional TFL, maybe a deflected ball that turns into an INT. Asking for a FF would be way too much to ask. He's a mediocre MLB who does what McD asks of him, and makes just enough plays for conversation to be directed elsewhere. Some fans like him more than others.

 

Except this is exactly what and how good teams defend high powered offenses.  Lots of zone looks - protect your area and make a tackle.

 

He would be a mediocre LB playing in some systems, but in Buffalo he is a 2 time Pro-Bowl player - having another fine season that most likely ends in another Pro-Bowl invite and is the one of the few guys teams gameplan against on this defense.

 

2 of his markdowns in this game - were zone coverages - where Milano loses the player and Edmunds closes to make it a tight window throw - they were well timed throws, but both were on the outside coverage man letting the guy get to the dead area before entering Edmunds zone.

 

He also got marked down multiple times for running plays where he filled his hole and the running back cut back to a spot that was vacant.  The defense is very dependent on players doing their 1/11th and Edmunds on several cutbacks - had a hole to fill and he did his part.  The crashing DE or CB being out of position and allowing a lane does not mean that Edmunds was wrong.  If Edmunds had filled the hole to the outside - where the cutbacks went - then a hole would have been opened in the middle where he should have been.

 

There is also a ton of complaints about getting “tricked” by PA passing and that is exactly what PA is meant to do.  He has a run responsibility and a pass responsibility- just like most LBs and why is PA passing successful- even if a team can’t run - because the player has to take the run serious and move and in today’s quick pass NFL - 1 step is what opens up a lane.  It happens across the league to all LBs.

 

The worst part is people complain he gets no TFL, but then complain that he goes forward on PA.  He just is not going to win because even though he is the primary leader on a top ranked defense - he does not make every play perfectly.   It may blow some peoples mind, but I think the Bills are very happy with what Edmunds gives them and I expect he will be getting a contract a bit higher than Milano’s (as the market has gone up) and he will be here a while.

[Freddie's Dead]

3 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Except this is exactly what and how good teams defend high powered offenses.  Lots of zone looks - protect your area and make a tackle.

 

He would be a mediocre LB playing in some systems, but in Buffalo he is a 2 time Pro-Bowl player - having another fine season that most likely ends in another Pro-Bowl invite and is the one of the few guys teams gameplan against on this defense.

 

2 of his markdowns in this game - were zone coverages - where Milano loses the player and Edmunds closes to make it a tight window throw - they were well timed throws, but both were on the outside coverage man letting the guy get to the dead area before entering Edmunds zone.

 

He also got marked down multiple times for running plays where he filled his hole and the running back cut back to a spot that was vacant.  The defense is very dependent on players doing their 1/11th and Edmunds on several cutbacks - had a hole to fill and he did his part.  The crashing DE or CB being out of position and allowing a lane does not mean that Edmunds was wrong.  If Edmunds had filled the hole to the outside - where the cutbacks went - then a hole would have been opened in the middle where he should have been.

 

There is also a ton of complaints about getting “tricked” by PA passing and that is exactly what PA is meant to do.  He has a run responsibility and a pass responsibility- just like most LBs and why is PA passing successful- even if a team can’t run - because the player has to take the run serious and move and in today’s quick pass NFL - 1 step is what opens up a lane.  It happens across the league to all LBs.

 

The worst part is people complain he gets no TFL, but then complain that he goes forward on PA.  He just is not going to win because even though he is the primary leader on a top ranked defense - he does not make every play perfectly.   It may blow some peoples mind, but I think the Bills are very happy with what Edmunds gives them and I expect he will be getting a contract a bit higher than Milano’s (as the market has gone up) and he will be here a while.

 

Thanks for explaining the eyeroll, appreciate the feedback.