With Possibility of St. Louis Exp. Team, What Other Cities Would You Consider Good Expansion Fits?

[Draconator]

7 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Haven't we already tried that experiment once.

 

Toronto as a whole didn't want a visitor. They want their own home team. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

9 minutes ago, Draconator said:

 

Again, I say Toronto has 7 Million people living within the city boundaries. There's plenty to support the Bills and a Toronto team. 

The GTA is about 7 million but the city of Toronto is "only" around 3 million.  Obviously enough to support a team, at least until the novelty wears off and the team stinks as Toronto sports fans are notoriously fairweather, Leafs withstanding...

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

The GTA is about 7 million but the city of Toronto is "only" around 3 million.  Obviously enough to support a team, at least until the novelty wears off and the team stinks as Toronto sports fans are notoriously fairweather, Leafs withstanding...

Fair point about Torontonians being fair weather fans. 

[BearNorth]

2 hours ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

Toronto...outside of the US and also the Centre of the Universe.

 

Would love to see how the league would justify plopping a new franchise 100 miles away from an existing team.  

Toronto is also less than 250 miles driving distance from Detroit, arguably worst team in the league.

[Nextmanup]

I'd like to see San Diego get a franchise back, assuming the people there want one.

 

I don't like to see markets get screwed out of their teams.

Same for St. Louis.

 

The rest I don't care about.  There are enough teams now.

 

 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

locals voted Chargers out of SD multiple times as they even defeated two referendums that would have cost locals ZERO. All paid by tax on hotels/rental cars.

Yeh the hate for Spanos ran that deep. Meanwhile they spent easily on Padres new digs. Locals have no one to blame but themselves. Enjoy the Padres and stop complaining, that was your choice.

 

Oakland has best fans but bureaucrats have continuously botched pro teams since 70's. Seals, Raiders twice, Warriors, and soon the A's.

 

Portland is the land of unpoliced riots. I would venture cautiously there. Although Portland Riots has a good ring to it for nickname and historically connects to the city.

Fear mongers sell a cheap product…
 

The NFL on the other hand has created their own difficulties because of their way of doing business.  Greed, and doing their best to get others to pay for their business expenses, ie; stadium’s, and preferential tax benefits, that are both made up for by us taxpayers, I have no sorrow for them on any level. 

[machine gun kelly]

19 hours ago, Zerovoltz said:

This is one of my favorite topics.

 

1.  I am not sure that St. Louis would have much of an appetite for the NFL at this piont...and might want that big check instead.   I am pretty sure the NFL really would rather not expand, but in this special case...maybe they'd be forced to....but...

 

2.  Here is why the NFL has NO interest in expansion....

 

@BigDingus did a great job of posting potential markets, and reasoning why they should have a team.  The reason it doesn't matter is the the NFL is a mature domestic TV market.  They get nearly the same or better ratings in NON NFL markets as they do in current NFL markets. This matters because the leauge can not gain additional eyes on TV's by expanding.  Instead, if they expanded, they'd have the same viewership, but would have to share that money with another owner or 2 or 3 or 4.  I am SURE none of the current owners want to take the same 32 piece pie and cut it into smaller pieces.

 

Ideally, the NFL would problaby like one CURRENT team to move to London and one to Canada.  Unlike expansion, this would draw alot of new eyeballs to TV's in new markets wich means a bigger pie for the current 32 owners to share.  

 

If they did expand, for example if ST Louis did get a team out of this settlement, then the NFL might be inclined to add one domestic team and one in Canada and one in London.   Whatever they do....keep in mind that it would need to result in more revenue.  

 

It's fun and interesting to consider soem of the markets that don't have teams now....but Austin is never getting one.  Jerry Jones won't have it.  Houston needs all the market share they can get too.  

 

Portland is interesting, but again, no REVENUE reason to put a team there....too bad because the league could use another west coast time zone team.

 

San Diego is a great market, but they aren't building a stadium and the leauge gets no revenue benefit to go threre...plus high taxes etc....it's not vaible without a publicly funded statdium at minimum.

 

Anyhow.....I stand by my points....ony if it increases revenues....will the NFL expand.  bank on it.

Excellent points for a Chiefs fan that is.. (just kidding our Midwest friend).  I agree with you’re notion of expanding the viewership and brand.

 

If asked and certainly no one is lining to up to ask me based on you’re premise, it’s logical they choose London, a Germany location (why because in Europe they are those avid fans just based on NFL Europe and viewership today), Mexico City, and Toronto.  All have the population, interest, revenue potential, and logistically could work.

 

If London and say Berlin worked, their 20 year plan would probably be to secure another two Europe locations and possibly another Canadien location.

 

I just don’t see the NFL expanding in these secondary markets like San Antonio, Portland and so on.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

London 

 

San Antonio 

 

Bring a team back to

San Diego 

Or Oakland

 

Toronto

Maybe put a team in Alabama somewhere 

 

 

 

[BigDingus]

10 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

The OP failed to list “world cities.” The NFL will at some point try to put a team outside of the U.S. (and I do not mean Toronto).

 

I referenced world cities in the original post. I mentioned how London may be what the NFL wants, but due to logistics & pushback from players/coaches, I don't see it happening. Then I mentioned Montreal as a better option than Toronto, as it doesn't clash with an existing small market NFL team's region & has a large metro area (4 million+). 

The only other one I considered was Mexico City, but for whatever reason, the NFL hasn't seemed to express much interest in pursuing that route (just a game played there once in a blue moon).

[BigDingus]

11 hours ago, Draconator said:

I've mentioned this earlier, but for everyone suggesting Vancouver or Montreal for a Canadian team. Toronto would be the first choice. Population base and they would certainly be the squeakiest wheel when it comes to "I want a NFL team". 

 

I mentioned in my original post Montreal over Toronto for the sheer fact its less likely to clash with existing NFL territories while also being a very large metro area. Toronto is where the NFL would've loved to see the Bills move, but the city strikes me more as an LA type, where people have so many options on things to do & an expansion NFL team would only move the needle if the team is good. 

 

And with Tornoto being only an hour & 40 min drive from Buffalo, it's too close to a neighboring small market & risks jeopardizing another NFL franchise. Montreal on the other hand, would rank as the 15th largest metro area overall if in the US, ranking above Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, San Diego, Baltimore, San Antonio, etc. & just slightly below San Francisco, Phoenix & Detroit, with a metro population of over 4.3 million people.

 

The CFL is 2nd most popular sporting league in Canada (behind the NHL), and unlike Toronto, actually supports their team. A city like that being awarded the Canada's first & only NFL franchise would be a huge source of pride & easily supported, rather than the lukewarm or general disinterest I'd expect given Toronto's reputation. When Canadians talk about great CFL fan bases, Montreal is often mentioned among them, while Toronto & BC are cited as weaker fan support.

 

Toronto has the Raptors for the NBA, the Blue Jays for the MLB, the Maple Leafs for the NHL, and dozens of other things to fight over people's attention. Montreal has the Canadiens. Give a large 4+ million population who's passionate about football the country's own NFL team, and I believe they'd be heavily supported from day 1, with the added benefit of not cannibalizing's an existing team like the Bills' market.

[Draconator]

7 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

I mentioned in my original post Montreal over Toronto for the sheer fact its less likely to clash with existing NFL territories while also being a very large metro area. Toronto is where the NFL would've loved to see the Bills move, but the city strikes me more as an LA type, where people have so many options on things to do & an expansion NFL team would only move the needle if the team is good. 

 

And with Tornoto being only an hour & 40 min drive from Buffalo, it's too close to a neighboring small market & risks jeopardizing another NFL franchise. Montreal on the other hand, would rank as the 15th largest metro area overall if in the US, ranking above Seattle, Minneapolis, Denver, San Diego, Baltimore, San Antonio, etc. & just slightly below San Francisco, Phoenix & Detroit, with a metro population of over 4.3 million people.

 

The CFL is 2nd most popular sporting league in Canada (behind the NHL), and unlike Toronto, actually supports their team. A city like that being awarded the Canada's first & only NFL franchise would be a huge source of pride & easily supported, rather than the lukewarm or general disinterest I'd expect given Toronto's reputation. When Canadians talk about great CFL fan bases, Montreal is often mentioned among them, while Toronto & BC are cited as weaker fan support.

 

Toronto has the Raptors for the NBA, the Blue Jays for the MLB, the Maple Leafs for the NHL, and dozens of other things to fight over people's attention. Montreal has the Canadiens. Give a large 4+ million population who's passionate about football the country's own NFL team, and I believe they'd be heavily supported from day 1, with the added benefit of not cannibalizing's an existing team like the Bills' market.

 

The city leaders will whine to Trudeau, strings would be pulled, and Toronto would get the franchise. Toronto whines a lot. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Saxum]

8 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

Excellent points for a Chiefs fan that is.. (just kidding our Midwest friend).  I agree with you’re notion of expanding the viewership and brand.

 

If asked and certainly no one is lining to up to ask me based on you’re premise, it’s logical they choose London, a Germany location (why because in Europe they are those avid fans just based on NFL Europe and viewership today), Mexico City, and Toronto.  All have the population, interest, revenue potential, and logistically could work.

 

If London and say Berlin worked, their 20 year plan would probably be to secure another two Europe locations and possibly another Canadien location.

 

I just don’t see the NFL expanding in these secondary markets like San Antonio, Portland and so on.

 

Redo NFL Europe with a set of teams which play each other and the winner gets into NFL playoffs.

Teams would need to need more than wannabees, hasbeens and NFL players needing to be trained however.

The economics would be hard to do but there may be some incentives from governments and European companies.

[GreggTX]

Oklahoma City and Portland? I can't believe LA has 2 teams. People there and elsewhere in CA don't support NFL teams well at all. Bills fans just blow them away during good years or bad. I lived in Southern California for many years and I know this from first hand experience. The only time I saw any real emotional attachment was when the Bills crushed the LA Raiders 51-3 in the playoffs. I was a real popular guy at work the next day as you can imagine. As soon as I walked in the building, I saw a sign which read "51-3 not even a game!"

Edited October 29, 2021 by GreggTX

[Buffalo Junction]

16 hours ago, boater said:

South Eastern VA has a population of over 1 million. You have VA Beach, Norfolk, Suffolk, Chesapeake, Portsmouth, Newport News and Williamsburg...but they would never get a team because all those towns could never reach an agreement on a stadium. Also Daniel Snyder would block it.

Almost makes more sense to give the raleigh/Durham metro area a team. The Snyder thing could be irrelevant as well if those emails come out. 

[stuvian]

i don't see the NFL returning to SD or Oakland so soon after the relocation wounds are still fresh. I think Toronto, Chicago and St. Louis are your natural choices for North America. 

As I'm watching Lions vs Eagles I think Detroit should also get a chance to support an NFL team because they sure as hell don't have one now 

[Matt_In_NH]

London?

[T master]

NONE We don't need anymore teams the NFL is fine the way it is