Don Otreply Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 4 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: This will help justify landing a team in London, or Toronto. Not much of a NFL fan base in Toronto, and it’s literally next door to an established existing franchise. Quote
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 14 hours ago, Warcodered said:also whatever division you stuck them in would be more difficult for all 5 teams compared to the other divisions. Not necessarily. What if the extra team is like say, the Jets, and suck. That’s two extra wins for the other teams in the division. Quote
Don Otreply Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, Big Turk said: For the local businesses, the number of people employed there, hotels, bars, restaurants etc... Rich people make the rules, haven't you learned that yet? No point in complaining, work on becoming one of them. Ya see, our country is a Democratic Republic, and not a Capitalist dictatorship, that way we have no compelling need to become disgusting people like Robert Kraft, or Marc Zuckerberg, these are certainly not people one aspires to emulate. Having enough money to live a good life is one thing, worshiping money is something else altogether. Quote
Beast Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 14 hours ago, Warcodered said: I mean you can't just add one random team. It wouldn't fit equally with the divions. Used to be 5 teams in two divisions and 4 in one division before J'Ville and Carolina came on the scene. Before Tampa and Seattle 5, 4 and 4. Quote
TC in St. Louis Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 The Rams drew sellout crowds when they first got here, and throughout the greatest show on turf. However, once they began to suck, the crowds diminished somewhat, and when it became clear that their homeboy Kroenke was robbing the team, they slowed down considerably. When the USFL, or whatever that was, came to town, they sold tons of tickets. They'll support a team, but I'm thinking the city might be better taking the cash. They have a soccer team coming, and the demand for tickets exceeds the allotment. This is a decent sports town, but they are so in love with the Cardinals, and in love with themselves as the best fans in baseball, it's absurd. When the Blues won the cup, a half million people came to the parade. They know how to drink here, that's for sure. Quote
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 42 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Ya see, our country is a Democratic Republic, and not a Capitalist dictatorship, that way we have no compelling need to become disgusting people like Robert Kraft, or Marc Zuckerberg, these are certainly not people one aspires to emulate. Having enough money to live a good life is one thing, worshiping money is something else altogether. You can never have abundance coming from a place of lack and extolling those virtues. Ngmi Quote
Freddie's Dead Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 15 hours ago, Warcodered said: I mean you can't just add one random team. It wouldn't fit equally with the divions. The NFL had 31 teams for quite a while. Quote
That's No Moon Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 How does awarding a franchise, that they sell mind you, to a 3rd party make the city of St. Louis whole? Unless they are going to award the team to the actual city, for free, I'd tell them to pound sand. I'd rather have billions of dollars if I were the city of St. Louis rather than a ticket back into the circus that screwed you twice already. Quote
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: How does awarding a franchise, that they sell mind you, to a 3rd party make the city of St. Louis whole? Unless they are going to award the team to the actual city, for free, I'd tell them to pound sand. I'd rather have billions of dollars if I were the city of St. Louis rather than a ticket back into the circus that screwed you twice already. Because then the team will play in the stadium built with public money and it will not be done for naught. Quote
That's No Moon Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, Big Turk said: Because then the team will play in the stadium built with public money and it will not be done for naught. You mean the stadium the Rams left because St. Louis wouldn't build them a new one? So they're going to get an expansion team, fine. How long before the stadium shakedown starts again? In settling for an expansion franchise in lieu of payment they'd be accepting that they then need to spend a billion dollars on a stadium almost immediately for someone else to profit while the NFL itself who is offering the settlement pays nothing and actually profits from the expansion fee they will charge to the new owner. The Texans owner paid 700 million dollars almost 20 years ago. I think it's fair to say a new STL team would be valued at at least 1.3-1.5 billion. Rather than the current owners paying over a billion, they'd stand to make over a billion, while STL would be back on the hook to pay for future NFL whims. Again, if I'm STL I say F that. Pay me. The only scenario under which I agree to accepting a franchise in lieu of money is if the league agrees to community ownership of the new team so it can never be yoinked away again. I doubt they will do that so f you NFL, pay me. Quote
hjnick Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 11 hours ago, Scott7975 said: Just make Kroenke sell the team to Bon Jovi. Do we really need a third Jersey team??? Hahaha Quote
boater Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 15 hours ago, Utah John said: I've read that the NFL's goal is eventually to grow to 40 teams, with five in each division, continuing with four divisions in each conference. They think there's a market for more of their product, and they're in the business of providing that product. There was a time a couple decades ago when the league had an odd number of teams, so each team got a bye. IIRC at that point there were no byes in the schedule, and some poor team got its bye the first week of the season (the Chargers, I think). They could make this work with 33 teams and get expansion plans going to go to 34 and then 36 pretty quickly. The college system doesn't make enough quality QBs to support that. The delta between the haves and the have-nots will be huge. Quote
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: This doesn’t establish a precedent. If the lease is expired or they negotiate out in good faith, the nfl will not be fined. Right...so the NFL counsel is telling the NFL owners they are f***ed, Kroenke lawyers are telling NFL Counsel he is going to try and get out of his agreement that he would take total ownership of any liabilities that arose from it because they know he is f***ed, Saint Louis lawyers won't settle because they know Kroenke and the NFL are f***ed, but I am supposed to believe a random poster on a message board that claims they have no case. Is that what you are trying to get me to buy? Because I am not buying it. Edited October 28, 2021 by Big Turk Quote
That's No Moon Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 3 minutes ago, Big Turk said: Right...so the NFL counsel is telling the NFL owners they are f***ed, Kroenke lawyers are telling NFL Counsel he is going to try and get out of his agreement that he would take total ownership of any liabilities that arose from it because they know he is f***ed, Saint Louis lawyers won't settle because they know Kroenke and the NFL are f***ed, but I am supposed to believe a random poster on a message board that claims they have no case. Is that what you are trying to get me to buy? Because I am not buying it. I think what he's saying is that this case has some specific circumstances that won't apply to all future cases of relocation. If a future lease were expired or it could be proven that the league negotiated in good faith that would establish a different situation from what happened in STL thus the outcome would likely be different in that instance. If I read that incorrectly feel free to correct me. 1 Quote
Patience Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 1 minute ago, That's No Moon said: I think what he's saying is that this case has some specific circumstances that won't apply to all future cases of relocation. If a future lease were expired or it could be proven that the league negotiated in good faith that would establish a different situation from what happened in STL thus the outcome would likely be different in that instance. If I read that incorrectly feel free to correct me. That's what I read from the post as well. 34 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: This doesn’t establish a precedent. If the lease is expired or they negotiate out in good faith, the nfl will not be fined. It's a slippery slope. I'm a lawyer, and I've defended companies who've been alleged to have acted in bad faith (when clearly they had not), but judges generally are reticent to grant a dispositive motion to remove claims unless it's overwhelmingly clear. In federal court, it's even tougher. I've defended clients in both arenas. The question comes down to: what exactly is bad faith? You need the discovery process (exchange of written documents, depositions) to bear that out. Quote
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: I think what he's saying is that this case has some specific circumstances that won't apply to all future cases of relocation. If a future lease were expired or it could be proven that the league negotiated in good faith that would establish a different situation from what happened in STL thus the outcome would likely be different in that instance. If I read that incorrectly feel free to correct me. OK...that makes more sense then...well, the fact that Jones and Kroenke were colluding behind the scenes to get other owners support for the move back in 2013 while he allegedly was still good faith negotiating with Saint Louis kinda makes the case...if they can't stop doing dumb stuff like that or at least cover it up better then it might still happen... Edited October 28, 2021 by Big Turk Quote
That's No Moon Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 Just now, Big Turk said: OK...that makes more sense then...well, the fact that Jones and Kroenke were colluding behind the scenes to get other owners support for the move back in 2013 while he allegedly was still good faith negotiating with Saint Louis kinda makes the case...if they can't stop doing dumb stuff like that or at least cover it up better then it might still happen... Put it this way, if the STL thing ends up working out for STL because the NFL can be shown to have acted in bad faith you can bet there will at least be a court case following any future relocation. Whether or not league people can be smart enough to say things over the phone where they disappear into the ephemera rather than document them over email for future discovery remains to be seen. <Glances at the 650,000 emails the league doesn't want to release about WFT> Quote
Utah John Posted October 28, 2021 Posted October 28, 2021 Imagine this scenario: Dan Snyder is forced by the NFL to sell his team to a St Louis owner, and the WFTs move west. Washington DC gets an expansion team which puts them on track to be better in a couple of years than they're gonna be under the current situation. The NFL gets rid of two problems, the St Louis lawsuit, and Dan Snyder. Washington gets a real future for its team. And the NFL retaliates against St Louis by inflicting the WFTs on them. Quote
Big Turk Posted October 28, 2021 Author Posted October 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: Put it this way, if the STL thing ends up working out for STL because the NFL can be shown to have acted in bad faith you can bet there will at least be a court case following any future relocation. Whether or not league people can be smart enough to say things over the phone where they disappear into the ephemera rather than document them over email for future discovery remains to be seen. <Glances at the 650,000 emails the league doesn't want to release about WFT> Haha...oh they are gleefully holding those emails as a sledgehammer against anyone who would dare bad mouth them(see Gruden, Jon). Suffice to say emails will get "leaked anonymously" as needed to that end game. Quote
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