Evaluation of Guards at OBD

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Morse is actually playing pretty well for us.....totally agree on Norwell

 

Norwell is making too much. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by The Jokeman

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Y’all remember Vlad?!  😬

 “Vlad the Get The QB Impaled”?  That guy? I try not to remember him. Thanks…….  😢 

 

 

.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Augie

[TFBillsfan]

While I believe Spencer Brown has potential, let’s slow our roll. Spencer was a huge liability against the Titans and will need to significantly improve if the Bills are going to reach their ultimate goal. Hopefully the OL stays healthy and continues to get better as the season progresses.

 

Teller would have been solid at OG but Spain was a liability at the time. Sometimes players just need a new start.

 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Trade for Norwell and fix this ****. Next year cut Morse and let Bates/Mongo/draft pick fight for center.

 

 

Why would they trade a key piece to protecting the franchise?

9 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

While I believe Spencer Brown has potential, let’s slow our roll. Spencer was a huge liability against the Titans and will need to significantly improve if the Bills are going to reach their ultimate goal. Hopefully the OL stays healthy and continues to get better as the season progresses.

 

Teller would have been solid at OG but Spain was a liability at the time. Sometimes players just need a new start.

 

 

 

Or play for the best oline coach in history on a team who's offense runs an offense fit to your skill set - moving people in the run game. 

 

And I still think he's just OK made to look better being surrounded by all pros.  

[The Wiz]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Y’all remember Vlad?!  😬

I was waiting for that name to show up. 

[That's No Moon]

4 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

From what I observe and read around the league, there is somewhat of a widespread shortage of good guard play out there, even amongst starting lineups. Lots of teams have zero good guards and very few have 2 that are above replacement level.

 

 Teller hurts but those things do happen.

Teams devalue guards in the drafting process and take tackles thinking they can make them into guards if necessary which is not always the case. Then they almost always prioritize position flexibility in that position as well. Guards need to be able to play both sides, center, and a tackle position if possible. Oh and they also need to be dirt cheap, cuz we'll they ain't tackles are they. This leads to what the league has in abundance. Guards who are mediocre at many things and not really good at any.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

10 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

I was waiting for that name to show up. 

i have never gotten so many “vomit emoji” responses to any other post I have done. 

[The Jokeman]

12 hours ago, TFBillsfan said:

While I believe Spencer Brown has potential, let’s slow our roll. Spencer was a huge liability against the Titans and will need to significantly improve if the Bills are going to reach their ultimate goal. Hopefully the OL stays healthy and continues to get better as the season progresses.

 

Teller would have been solid at OG but Spain was a liability at the time. Sometimes players just need a new start.

 

Spain had a new start coming here from Tennessee yet after he got a longer contract his play regressed. Teller was in a numbers battle and we kept the wrong one.

Edited October 27, 2021 by The Jokeman

[oldmanfan]

Historically we have two guards in the HOF, Joe D and Billy Shaw.  Not too bad a history.  But I digress; let me address today’s question:

 

1.  In the bye week it is common for teams to scout themselves.  I suspect we’ve noticed our interior can get pushed around a bit.  So either some scheme changes or perhaps moving Ike in may be in the offing.

 

2.  There is not a crystal ball bright enough or clear enough to have foreseen what Teller would become.  We missed that one. It won’t be the last time because all teams do.  Like Ford, I think they’re trying to light a fire under him by sitting him but his time may be limited.

 

3.  Bates is the backup because he can legitimately fill in at C, G, or T if need be.  Better to keep him in reserve for now.  His time might come if or when Morse leaves (perhaps as a cap casualty). 

4.  Spain was a part of culture establishment.  McD and Beane want their culture, Spain I suspect did not buy in the way they wanted.  So bye-bye.  And it’s not like we haven’t done well without him (see also Eichel, Jack).  
 

5.  Our run blocking could stand improvement.  The usual excuse, an excuse with merit, is that guys don’t learn to run block anymore in college.  But given most of our guys are vets, and that Brown might be our best run blocker, that excuse holds little if any water.  Our guys up front simply have to be more physical.  
 

6.  Dawkins is to me showing effects of his Covid infection.  He may not get back to his preCovid level this season, if ever.

[Freddie's Dead]

My brother in law is a guard at the stadium....

[boater]

Quote

Evaluation of Guards at OBD

I tried to break-in to express my displeasure at the depth of cornerback. But they slammed me down at the front door. Exceptional guards.

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Talk to me about how we have missed horribly on guards.  First Wyatt Teller and now Q. Spain.   He is playing unbelievably well and there is talk of extending him.  Meanwhile our guards are ass.  What exactly is the deal?  Not trying to come off so negative,  but I think it's a good discussion topic.

Your typical Bills message board lamet about a former player playing well.  
 

Spain was playing terrible for the Bills in 2019.  They released him and he didn’t do the much better for Cincy.  The odds of him playing this we’ll probably were not great.  
 

As far as Teller, he wasn’t going to crack the starting lineup and finding a spot for him was going to be tough.  You can argue the Bills should’ve waited another year.  In fact, maybe they should’ve kept Teller over Spain.  But he was a 5th round draft pick, and again, the odds for his success weren’t great.  
 

Both of these examples are players that found themselves in a better situation/system than it is an indictment of evaluation.  

[First Round Bust]

5 hours ago, H2o said:

Spain was alright for us as well........and then he signed a contract extension. Do you not remember what led up to his release last year? Him getting mauled on the interior and almost getting Josh killed? Then his falling out with our coaching staff behind the scenes? Teller? Yeah, we should have held onto him. Spain? Fool's gold. FWIW the OL has been better since moving Williams inside and Brown to RT.  

Spain was re-signed and cut in the same season, but in between didnt Spain beat-out Teller, leading to Teller trade..so we missed twice on the same position and ended-up with dead cap space in addition to the needed replacement

[hondo in seattle]

I can't remember the last time I thought the Bills had a good OLine.  

 

Maybe the 90s?

[klos63]

6 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Trade for Norwell and fix this ****. Next year cut Morse and let Bates/Mongo/draft pick fight for center.

Morse is playing very well, why would you think Bates/Mongo would be an improvement?

[Thurman#1]

Brad Butler was really getting good, and then he retired as a young guy to go into politics. Which didn't work out for him.

 

Urbik was decent for a while, a tough guy but not really athletic. Ross Tucker was solid too. Ostroski was OK.

 

But I'm starting to run dry after that.

 

Two or three have been mentioned before. Levitre was good and big Ruben Brown is still underrated, an absolute road grader.

 

The Super Bowl guys of course, Davis and Ritcher. But since those two not a ton.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Thurman#1

[billsfan89]

31 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Brad Butler was really getting good, and then he retired as a young guy to go into politics. Which didn't work out for him.

 

Urbik was decent for a while, a tough guy but not really athletic. Ross Tucker was solid too. Ostroski was OK.

 

But I'm starting to run dry after that.

 

Two or three have been mentioned before. Levitre was good and big Ruben Brown is still underrated, an absolute road grader.

 

The Super Bowl guys of course, Davis and Ritcher. But since those two not a ton.

 

Richie Incognito was a Pro-Bowl guard every year when he was here and for a three-year stretch (2015 to 2017) he was one of the high-end guards in the league during that three-year run. He wasn't a "homegrown" player but he was a complete reclamation project in 2015. He was suspended by the Dolphins in 2013 after a bullying scandal and then out of the league. In fact InCog was really a key cog in breaking the drought in 2017 and his absence in 2018 really hurt the team. 

 

I wouldn't say he was better than Ruben Brown who was a complete monster for several seasons. But I would say that InCog was definitely the best guard in the drought era surpassing Levitre who was also good but not great.

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, klos63 said:

Morse is playing very well, why would you think Bates/Mongo would be an improvement?

 

Not sure why people want to push Morse out the door. He is one of the top pass blocking centers in the league and does all the communication and leadership aspects that a center needs to do. I know he is not the best in the running game but he isn't tragic there either. I think some people don't realize the value he brings. 

[WideNine]

21 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

i have never gotten so many “vomit emoji” responses to any other post I have done. 

 

TBD has always been a tough crowd after a loss.

 

You can say the sky is blue and the earth is round and folks will disagree, eye roll, and vomit emoji your posts.

 

We win and it is all 🌈  and 🦄  and folks singing around the campfire... 

 

We take care of business with Miami (in convincing fashion) and the natives will be less restless.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by WideNine

[TheBeaneBandit]

15 hours ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

I think the interior OL needs another tweak now, not next season. Feliciano needs competition or a move to the bench if we are going to beat teams like Tampa  and win this year. He has proven to not be the answer, my only hope is we can get a replacement now.

 

Couldn't agree more.

To be clear im not for dumping Morse. But if we brought in a high paid guard the cap whiners would get all worked up. Bring in a great guard and make it work.