Mahomes vs Allen - The Long Term Knight

[DJB]

6 hours ago, NewEra said:

Good.  I wouldn’t bet my house on it either.    Betting houses on sporting events is a bad idea.

 

Is that what happened to the guy that bet on the Bills vs Vikings game? 🤔

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Badol, he literally threw 66.14 at the senior bowl. Do your research. The difference between 60 and 66 is the difference between 100 and 92 in baseball — i.e., massive. Also, actually read what i wrote about his baseball velocity. He grew a ton after that measurement. C’mon! Be a better reader. Your baseball comment given the context is beneath you.

 

 

If Allen can throw 5 mph harder in windy Mobile Alabama than he did in a still combine setting..........why do you assume that guys like Mahomes, Herbert or Eason could not?

 

The fact remains.........in the same combine environment......his fastball wasn't "not even close" better.........it was thisclose.........in fact it was the same as little known Jacob Eason, a fact you conveniently neglected to even mention.

 

And don't get me wrong.......I believe they all have instances where they throw harder than they might have in a combine setting..........I believe the video of Brady throwing 62mph too.........and that being the case it certainly wouldn't surprise me that the aforementioned QB's can all surpass 65mph........but if Allen was throwing that much harder than any and every other QB in the league do you not think NexGen stats wouldn't be feeding us that astonishing info to help upsell Allen?      

 

[Scott7975]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=10156309092056263

 

Pretty fun sports science type thing with Josh Allen.

 

Also seen that Josh was running at 15.59 mph when he released that big TD pass to Knox against KC.

Edited October 28, 2021 by Scott7975

[BADOLBILZ]

17 hours ago, FireChans said:

Deshaun Watson is a good example of a great QB who doesn’t have nearly the same amount of strength as Allen but has way more touch.

 

Yes and he's also an example of a guy who had terrible measured ball speed at the combine and clearly throws a lot harder than that when he needs to in games.

 

I would like to see the NFL put more emphasis on top ball speeds but the reality is that they don't because they probably aren't nearly as impressive as people think.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yes and he's also an example of a guy who had terrible measured ball speed at the combine and clearly throws a lot harder than that when he needs to in games.

 

I would like to see the NFL put more emphasis on top ball speeds but the reality is that they don't because they probably aren't nearly as impressive as people think.

 

 

I think most of the good NFL QBs are not flame throwers, and nor do they need to be. It's generally OK to simply be good enough as long as you have the other key skills and attributes (e.g., Payton Manning and Drew Brees). There are some places where it does help (Buffalo, which has the windiest stadium in the league, and where weak armed QBs have struggled), but most NFL games aren't played in Buffalo. But I don't think anyone is saying that velocity alone is impressive when judged within the broader context of productivity; only that Josh Allen has a freakin' cannon. Which he does. 

[LeGOATski]

He's strikes me as one of those people who will throw a fit in public and feel no shame. He'll yell nonsense at you while looking up and to the side.

 

 

[BassToMouth]

16 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Bingo. Promotes narcissism. Approval seeking behavior. 

 

But it's almost like an excuse. "I'm not just arrogantly showing off my rear end, I'm making a dance video to show how goofy and fun-loving I am." 

 

It's very see through, but it's been promoted as the cool thing to do. To me it exposes neediness. 

Same, that’s how I see it. It’s super sad that ‘clout’ which I guess is a combination of influence and money and visibility is so important today. Almost a new currency. Pride vs humility at war and pride is taking the cake. Not a surprise given how hard it’s pushed. You nailed it w the neediness aspect. People don’t put as much importance anymore on what they think and feel about themselves as what others think and feel about them. 
 

Maybe this was always the case en masse, but I think it’s worse than it ever was. Plus social media was built using the same techniques as casino games, dopamine hits with every ‘like’ and retweet or whatever. So it’s an addiction essentially. It’s releasing the same chemicals as some drugs and just overall feelings of ‘good’ do. Kinda scary tbh

[bigduke6]

lol this thread is funny

[GunnerBill]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yes and he's also an example of a guy who had terrible measured ball speed at the combine and clearly throws a lot harder than that when he needs to in games.

 

I would like to see the NFL put more emphasis on top ball speeds but the reality is that they don't because they probably aren't nearly as impressive as people think.

 

 

That combine measurement is, to my mind, one of the most useless data points in the sport. I don't think it is predictive of anything. 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[FireChans]

48 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

This man is one step away from Aaron Rodgersing his whole family.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

RIP chiefs season 😂😂

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Blank Stare]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

[Saxum]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:00 PM, Jay_Fixit said:

You see this is good right here.

 

For Karma will his father change his name to Jonathan? 

[PetermansRedemption]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

He needs to kick them both to the curb. Both would be absolutely nothing without him, yet they try to steal the spot light. 

[starrymessenger]

It looks like we are entering into something of a golden age of exceedingly talented young QBs. In the last four years what looks to me to be an unusually large number of them have entered the league. Its not just the number but also the raw skill level (raw because all rooks, especially QBs are raw). My impression is that for the many years that the Bills and other QB needy teams were scouring the college ranks fewer bona fides franchise prospects were coming into the league. In recent years a plethora of talented players have shown up with “franchise” stamped on their foreheads. Each of them gives every indication of being the real deal. It makes no sense to limit discussion to just Allen and PM.

I agree with those who say that Allen is the most physically gifted player at the position. That has always been my opinion. Before the draft in checking out what tape there was, the dominance of his physical skills was absolutely startling (esp his arm strength- I didn’t think I had ever seen anything quite like it). He was clearly the most dominant player on the field. Ok so it’s WYO. But the thing is he continued to flash as the most physically dominant player once he became a starter as the rawest of rookies. The Anthony Barr hurdle is a good but not unique illustration. 
Its true to say, I believe, that Allen has continued to progress year over year so far while PM appears to have plateaud. Mind you it’s also possible that PM does not have as many things to improve on to get better. Somebody like Zero who sees him all the time might be able to say what, if anything , he still has to work on. As has been pointed out, Allen sometimes lacks touch on certain of his throws. I’m not overly concerned. When people said Allen was not accurate there was something about that I found incongruous with reality because going all the way to his college tape there was plenty of examples of him making precise throws with excellent ball placement as well as anticipation. Its just that he wasn’t doing it consistently. I think that last year we saw plenty of evidence of him making accurate passes, sometimes really incredibly accurate throws. To me this is relevant to the touch issue and probably also to the timing with receivers relative to the long ball. The reason is that unless I’ve been dreaming I’ve seen him make difficult throws requiring great touch, its just that he needs to do it with greater consistency. So just as his general accuracy has improved with better mechanics, I expect his finesse throws to improve as well (and his long ball accuracy). 
Mind you, it’s always been a mystery to me why some guys struggle hitting a back who is standing 5-10 yards away from them. Lossman had that problem. I’m told that those tosses are actually more difficult to make than they appear and really require the right footwork.

As a running QB, Allen is probably second only to Lamar. As a passer I don’t think overall any of the younger QBs are better and most are not in the same area code. Lamar in particular isn’t half bad at all but he is limited in arm strength and not nearly in Allen’s class. Burrow is not a threat to run with ball. Mahomes is a smart runner who can definitely help himself out with his legs, but unlike Lamar and Allen he doesn’t offer the same possibility for breaking a game wide open rushing the ball. Burrow is not a weapon in the run game. Herbert is mobile but again designed runs are not a part of his game and not a feature of the offence the Chargers are operating. He’s not in any event as fast as Allen nor are his reactions in space as quick. Mayfield is strictly a passer.

To my surprise the only other young QB who may be capable of offering an OC the same menu of options as Allen is Murray, but he’s small and therefore possibly more injury prone. In any event, he cannot because of his stature run with the same power and authority as Allen. 
And there is something else that I think separates Allen from the rest of the field and it is this: the best way to shut down any QB , is to get in his face. Thats what the Bucs did to PM in last years championship of course. However Allen has great escapability, can punish you as a runner and can throw with zip and accuracy while on the run to absolutely any spot on the field, including the opposite side. Once forced outside the pocket that’s what he’s always looking to do. So a play that starts to look like a disaster for the Bills winds up being a backbreaker for the opposition. Nobody in the game is better able to do that than Allen.

There are other things to consider of course eg the ability to make pre and post snap reads, to audiblize accordingly when necessary, to go through progressions etc… Apparently Herbert and Burrow both do this very well but I can remember many instances of Allen doing it very well too. I don’t think I would give them the advantage but I can’t be sure about that because I don’t see those guys very much.

I like Allen,s intangibles and leadership a bit more than Mahomes. Again there are probably others in the group with those skills but I find it hard to imagine that they would be ahead of Allen in that department.

All in all I’m pretty satisfied with what we’ve got.

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by starrymessenger