2017 Re-Draft - What would you do?

[YoloinOhio]

30 minutes ago, cage said:

 

The article I was referring to seemed to indicate that Whaley/Monos were kind of dismissive of Pegula's input on picking Mahomes.  Maybe if they were on the "same page" with him and believed he should be the pick at #10, that would have all played differently?  That's not a one day pick, but a three month process leading up to the draft.  Maybe that's why he was ready to can them right after the draft??

 

That is certainly possible. It seemed like McDermott was the one making the final calls on the draft board though. This was a good article from MMQB right after the draft 

 

[Bill from NYC]

The trade turned out well, and this is a great thing. The odds of it turning out so well were poor and imo the success of the trade was random, not planned. Trading away from a HOF QB at 10 all the way down to 27 to draft a corner (however good) is not a strategy that is going to win you lots of football games.

 

Looking back I am totally fine with what transpired. I was on this board and thrilled when the drafted Josh while many others were furious. That said, to think that our front office knew that far in advance that they were going to get Josh and he would turn out to be this great is quite silly imo. 

 

It's an interesting topic, but what really matters is that Josh is great and I think he will even improve!!!!!

 

It's all good.

 

[Paul Costa]

Everything happens for a reason. Both are very good QB’s it’s hard to argue the Bills haven’t been a better team from top to bottom since that draft. Many variables come into play. The Bills are arguably the best team in the NFL right now. They have a great opportunity to show that in the next 3 + months or so. Should be fun. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

8 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is Rex Ryan still the HC? 

Pegulas put their foot down: Can't afford Rob's snacks bill.

[GunnerBill]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Thinking about this a lot for the last 13-14 months or so… your thoughts?

 

Do I know when I pass on Mahomes I am getting Josh Allen? How much do I know about the other guys in the 2018 draft? 

 

Would I now rather have Tre and Josh than just Pat, yes. They are two of our 3 elite players and Beane doesn't trade for the third of them (Diggs) if they don't feel so good about Josh. 

 

But once you start getting into these hypotheticals I need to know exactly what are the known knowns and the known unknowns.

[atlbillsfan1975]

Remember when Russell Wilson was our “coulda, shoulda, woulda” QB?

Just like Russ, I don’t think Patrick would have had a similar career with Buffalo. Failing to take into consideration the context of all the variables at the time of the pick is looking at things subjectively. 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

The trade turned out well, and this is a great thing. The odds of it turning out so well were poor and imo the success of the trade was random, not planned. Trading away from a HOF QB at 10 all the way down to 27 to draft a corner (however good) is not a strategy that is going to win you lots of football games.

 

 

I think it was planned. McDermott knew the 2018 class waw shaping up nicely, knew his buddy was about to join him as GM and knew they would have the capital to move around. In that sense it was absolutely planned.

 

But I agree it was an extremely high risk strategy because you need plenty of things to pan out in order to be "right" when you walk away from the chance to draft a potential franchise QB.

[YoloinOhio]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Do I know when I pass on Mahomes I am getting Josh Allen? How much do I know about the other guys in the 2018 draft? 

 

Would I now rather have Tre and Josh than just Pat, yes. They are two of our 3 elite players and Beane doesn't trade for the third of them (Diggs) if they don't feel so good about Josh. 

 

But once you start getting into these hypotheticals I need to know exactly what are the known knowns and the known unknowns.

Yes, you know it all in hindsight 

[TH3]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Andy Reid was best known as a playoff choker and terrible game clock manager and the Chiefs fanbase was ready to move on from him..........until he got this guy.

 

No reason to believe that the Bills wouldn't have won a SB with Mahomes by now unless you think McBeane are otherwise incompetent. 

 

I was a fan of the Josh Allen selection but it's idiotic to suggest that trading Mahomes to a division/AFC rival was anything but a mistake.    Even for a very good cornerback and the primary asset used to acquire Tremaine Edmunds.   

 

Mahomes literally just defeated the Bills in the most recent AFCCG...........until the Bills win a SB with Allen it's not even a point of contention.

Says you….

 

This whole question is ridiculous anyway…..NO ONE was predicting PM would come out and do what he did in his first 4 years….heck ….he wasn’t even the first QB taken….so to criticize the choice made at the time with the added knowledge of 5 more seasons…..someone dig up the thread on TBD flaming the pick at the time

 

I like where we sit….all day

Edited October 25, 2021 by TH3

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yes, you know it all in hindsight 

 

Oh if you know everything then yes you do it again.

[Bill from NYC]

34 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think it was planned. McDermott knew the 2018 class waw shaping up nicely, knew his buddy was about to join him as GM and knew they would have the capital to move around. In that sense it was absolutely planned.

I respectfully disagree. If he knew or even suspected that Mahomes was a future HOF QB, he would not have traded him away imo. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

I respectfully disagree. If he knew or even suspected that Mahomes was a future HOF QB, he would not have traded him away imo. 

 

But the whole point is he didn't know that. He had a plan and it involved not picking a Quarterback until he had the guy he trusted in charge of the evaluation process. 

[BuffaloBill]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

That is certainly possible. It seemed like McDermott was the one making the final calls on the draft board though. This was a good article from MMQB right after the draft 

 

It’s painful to read that article - the organization was a mess.

[CorkScrewHill]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Do I know when I pass on Mahomes I am getting Josh Allen? How much do I know about the other guys in the 2018 draft? 

 

Would I now rather have Tre and Josh than just Pat, yes. They are two of our 3 elite players and Beane doesn't trade for the third of them (Diggs) if they don't feel so good about Josh. 

 

But once you start getting into these hypotheticals I need to know exactly what are the known knowns and the known unknowns.

This is it exactly. One of the unknowns was Patrick Mahomes. We talk as if it was a guarantee he would have this outstanding start to his career. Yes some people on this board loved him, but those same people have LOVED other people who ended up being a bust.  ESPN's Jeff Legwold was so high on Mahomes they had Tre White 19 spots higher than him (23rd to 52nd) in their 2017 top 100 draft prospects. They had Trubisky at 42 and Deshaun Watson at 28. I have liked 100s of players I anted the Bills to take .. some have been good, some have sucked. I always remember the ones I liked that turned out well.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story/_/id/19180310/ranking-top-100-prospects-available-2017-nfl-draft-espn-nfl-nation-reporter-jeff-legwold

 

NFL.com Mike Mayock had him at 32

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/mike-mayock-s-2017-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings-0ap3000000802568

 

Daniel Jeremiah from NFL.com had 3 Qbs in the top 50 but none named Mahommes. he had Deshone Kizer as his top ranked QB

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft-0ap3000000775479

 

Sporting News actually had him as their top QB at #12 with the following write-up

"12. Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

Mahomes is the best quarterback in a class that lacks a true No. 1-worthy prospect. Right now he’s a more reckless version of Jay Cutler, but his upside is Brett Favre/Matt Stafford. That upside is worth a team making him the first quarterback selected."

 

Gil Brandt had him high, but his third ranked QB.

 

USAToday had him as their 4th QB

 

The myth that everyone should have known that Mahomes would be a franchise level quarterback is not backed by the facts from the time.

 

Alll that to say, I prefer Josh, because he somehow is Buffalo. I hope he can win a SB for the Bills like Mahomes has done for the Chiefs but as of today .. I would rather have Josh.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, CorkScrewHill said:

This is it exactly. One of the unknowns was Patrick Mahomes. We talk as if it was a guarantee he would have this outstanding start to his career. Yes some people on this board loved him, but those same people have LOVED other people who ended up being a bust. 

 

Agree totally (maybe slightly biased because I didn't have a 1st on him either.... or Josh... whoops). 

[YoloinOhio]

22 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

It’s painful to read that article - the organization was a mess.

Amazing how far things have come. That article was only 8 months before the draught ended. 

[bigK14094]

The draft game has a lot of chance built in.  Redoing and earlier draft...ok....but, who knew Allen lasts until #7 the next year?   I would have bet against that.  The Bills lucked out imho.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, bigK14094 said:

The draft game has a lot of chance built in.  Redoing and earlier draft...ok....but, who knew Allen lasts until #7 the next year?   I would have bet against that.  The Bills lucked out imho.

 

Indeed in a true re-do Mahomes goes #1 overall in 2017 and Allen goes #1 overall in 2018. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

5 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

I agree.  They likely would’ve made the same decision that Mahomes wasn’t ready and we had Tyrod and Peterman.  They still would’ve made the change to Peterman and then when he faltered, they may have gone to Mahomes or back to Tyrod.  Then in 2018, Mahomes would’ve been more ready than Josh was but the talent around him would likely be the same.  The whole roster wasn’t ready to be a contender until last season.

 

Peterman would have never been drafted to the Bills. Mahomes and Peterman are from the same 2017 draft class. But yes, it probably would have been Tyrod starting the 2017 season I would assume with Mahomes taking over mid season.

[MJS]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Andy Reid was best known as a playoff choker and terrible game clock manager and the Chiefs fanbase was ready to move on from him..........until he got this guy.

 

No reason to believe that the Bills wouldn't have won a SB with Mahomes by now unless you think McBeane are otherwise incompetent. 

 

I was a fan of the Josh Allen selection but it's idiotic to suggest that trading Mahomes to a division/AFC rival was anything but a mistake.    Even for a very good cornerback and the primary asset used to acquire Tremaine Edmunds.   

 

Mahomes literally just defeated the Bills in the most recent AFCCG...........until the Bills win a SB with Allen it's not even a point of contention.

For me it isn't an argument that Allen is better than Mahomes. To me it's clear. Mahomes has had the greatest start to his career probably of all time. Dan Marino is in that conversation too. As of right now, Mahomes is the top QB in the league. What he has done is amazing.

 

But he was also put onto a team with talent ready to win right away, with a great coach. The Bills were largely devoid of talent, especially the skill positions.

 

So when would Mahomes have won a Superbowl with the Bills? Not last year. Mahomes got beat by the Bucs and Tom Brady. There's no reason to believe that he would have done better with the Bills in that game. 2019, maybe? But the Bills had only John Brown and Cole Beasley to throw to. Maybe he could have gotten it done, but the rest of the team wasn't ready to win a Superbowl, in my opinion. Mahomes would have gone nowhere in 2018 with the garbage talent the Bills had.

 

Also, I just like Josh Allen and Tre White and think the fit the team and the fan base really well. So no, I wouldn't trade them and I doubt that Mahomes would have won a Superbowl with the Bills by now.