Jim Kubiak: How Bills used unique RPO concepts; how Titans made Josh Allen uncomfortable

[Shaw66]

Hap -

 

I just went back and listened to McD's presser after the game.   He doesn't say it directly, but at one point he says "I'm gonna trust my players," and it seems like he meant he's going to trust Josh to get the yardage.   Didn't necessarily mean that Josh changed the call.  But then later someone asked whether Josh had an option or choice, and McDermott said he did, and Josh has usually been excellent in making that decision.   Now, again, it isn't clear that Josh changed the play; McDermott may have meant that they called the sneak but Josh has options as to how to run it, where to attack it.  That "sneak" he ran around left end a couple of weeks ago clearly was Josh reading the defense and attacking where he saw the weakness. 

 

So, I didn't find (didn't look too hard) McDermott saying that Josh changed the play, but it's clear that at least some of the responsibility for running the play and how it was run was on Allen.   

 

Someone else commented that the Bills had three receivers in the end zone on that play, and the body language of each suggested some disappointment or frustration.  That's not right.  The wideouts just stood at the line as the ball was snapped and pretty much just watched.  The sneak had to have been called either in the huddle or at the line, because the receivers had nothing to do except line up in places that would keep three defenders too far from the play.  

[CincyBillsFan]

Why are people wondering whether the sneak was the called play?  How many times over the last two years have we not run a sneak in that situation? The play against the Steelers where Allen threw the backward pass and a couple of times that Allen took it outside rather then over the tackle.  IMO if that sneak is blocked correctly Allen makes it. 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

IMO that drive stalled when the Bills got conservative once they were in the Red Zone.  If the goal was to win the game in Regulation the Bills should have attacked the end zone on the first 3 downs and then kick the FG. Especially on first down instead of running Moss for a few yards. The truth is that with a few exceptions most of our runs the last two years on first down have been wasted plays either not gaining much or actually losing yards.

 

I suspect that we got cute at the end trying to run down the clock AND score a winning TD.  In hindsight scoring a TD and taking a 4 point lead with 45 seconds left is pretty good.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

43 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hap -

 

I just went back and listened to McD's presser after the game.   He doesn't say it directly, but at one point he says "I'm gonna trust my players," and it seems like he meant he's going to trust Josh to get the yardage.   Didn't necessarily mean that Josh changed the call.  But then later someone asked whether Josh had an option or choice, and McDermott said he did, and Josh has usually been excellent in making that decision.   Now, again, it isn't clear that Josh changed the play; McDermott may have meant that they called the sneak but Josh has options as to how to run it, where to attack it.  That "sneak" he ran around left end a couple of weeks ago clearly was Josh reading the defense and attacking where he saw the weakness. 

 

So, I didn't find (didn't look too hard) McDermott saying that Josh changed the play, but it's clear that at least some of the responsibility for running the play and how it was run was on Allen.   

 

Someone else commented that the Bills had three receivers in the end zone on that play, and the body language of each suggested some disappointment or frustration.  That's not right.  The wideouts just stood at the line as the ball was snapped and pretty much just watched.  The sneak had to have been called either in the huddle or at the line, because the receivers had nothing to do except line up in places that would keep three defenders too far from the play.  

I listened to both interviews and did not hear McD saying Josh changed the play

[GoBills808]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I listened to both interviews and did not hear McD saying Josh changed the play

same

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

On the first page of Thr Rockpule Review, WhoTom said this:

 

"One point about the 4th-and-1 play call: McD said Josh made the decision to change from whatever play Daboll called and sneak it instead. They gave him the authority to do so."

 

No link. 

 

WhoTom doesn't make stuff up.  I assumed it came from the postgame interview.

 

 
Im not saying “made stuff  up” but is it not legit to ask when & where it was said?

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

18 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Why are people wondering whether the sneak was the called play?  How many times over the last two years have we not run a sneak in that situation? The play against the Steelers where Allen threw the backward pass and a couple of times that Allen took it outside rather then over the tackle.  IMO if that sneak is blocked correctly Allen makes it. 

 

 

 

 

it was absolutely the right call for him to audible to if that is what happened. We had more guys on the line than they did. What we wasn’t anticipating was Dawkins getting driven 2 yards backwards at the snap. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I listened to both interviews and did not hear McD saying Josh changed the play

After the game he was asked if Josh had options, and McDermott said yes.   It was clear that McDermott meant that Josh did some decision making on the play.   Maybe it only meant he had options to choose the hole, I don't know.   

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 
is it not legit to ask when & where it was said?

Of course it is.  I didn't say it wasn't.  You asked me how I knew that Allen changed the play.   I went back and found where I heard it and showed it to you.   I also told you that there was no link, and that I generally trust what WhoTom says.  None of that suggests that that inquiry should stop there. 

 

And then I went and did the research and explained that I didn't find anything saying Allen changed the play, just that he had options.   

 

I'm not sure why you're asking this. 

[JaCrispy]

Kubiak was spot on with his analysis of Allen’s 3 play sequence in the 4th qtr...he makes my point why I thought that particular drive lost the game, when we could have managed the clock better, by matriculating the ball down the field, especially when the Titan’s was playing us deep...And we wouldn’t have needed to worry about converting on 4th down...

Edited October 22, 2021 by JaCrispy

[vincec]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

it was absolutely the right call for him to audible to if that is what happened. We had more guys on the line than they did. What we wasn’t anticipating was Dawkins getting driven 2 yards backwards at the snap. 

Looked to me like the DL guessed the snap count. He was off before Dawkins.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I agree with the second Kubiak statement but disagree with the first.

 

Allen was not right call on fourth and short because of how well the Titans were defending Allen runs this game. McDermott always talks about situational football and in this situation a QB sneak wasn't the right play call even though it normally works. The  Titans were too physical up front for us and the trick play we used for the 2point conversation should have been used on fourth and short.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Of course it is.  I didn't say it wasn't.  You asked me how I knew that Allen changed the play.   I went back and found where I heard it and showed it to you.   I also told you that there was no link, and that I generally trust what WhoTom says.  None of that suggests that that inquiry should stop there. 

 

You said "WhoTom doesn't make stuff up" as though questioning him constituted an unreasonable accusation of "making stuff up", or at least so it seemed to me.  If you'd said "I generally trust WhoTom" I would not have asked "may it not be questioned?"

 

That's one of the places I asked, BTW and got no answer.

 

I feel I should add I generally agree with most of what you said in your "humbled at the goal line" thread, especially that McDermott's goal is for the team to be playing its best in December, not October.  That said, it was supremely frustrating not to take that W home.

 

 

 

 

 

[nucci]

he didn't look uncomfortable. he looked great to me

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I agree with the second Kubiak statement but disagree with the first.

 

Allen was not right call on fourth and short because of how well the Titans were defending Allen runs this game. McDermott always talks about situational football and in this situation a QB sneak wasn't the right play call even though it normally works. The  Titans were too physical up front for us and the trick play we used for the 2point conversation should have been used on fourth and short.

 

It's possible there was a similar play called and Josh didn't like  what the defense was showing and audibled to the sneak.

 

I tend to agree with you but that's  sheer 20/20 hindsight on both our parts.  If a play were too tricky and got blown up people would be saying "why not sneak, what's Allen's success rate there, ride the hot hand?"

 

13 hours ago, vincec said:

Looked to me like the DL guessed the snap count. He was off before Dawkins.

 

IMO the Titans were jumping our snap all night.  I expect Barkley got a huge cheer in the locker room, but really, we need to self-scout and change more stuff.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Someone else commented that the Bills had three receivers in the end zone on that play, and the body language of each suggested some disappointment or frustration.  That's not right.  The wideouts just stood at the line as the ball was snapped and pretty much just watched.  The sneak had to have been called either in the huddle or at the line, because the receivers had nothing to do except line up in places that would keep three defenders too far from the play.  

 

That's not right either, they really should run a route to give Josh options.  For example, if his LT gets blown backwards and pushed onto his ass.

[Max Fischer]

If he thinks Allen had a bad or "off" game, then I can live with Josh's performance. 

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

he didn't look uncomfortable. he looked great to me

You know Allen has arrived as an elite NFL QB when folks can pick apart his Monday night performance.  Kind of like last year in the NFC Championship game where some criticized Rogers for not trying to run it in from the 8 or the snipes Mahomes took last week in Washington for throwing two first half TD.s.

 

Allen has entered fine company in the make believe issues department.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

If he thinks Allen had a bad or "off" game, then I can live with Josh's performance. 

Yep if Monday night was an "off game", Allen has made a lot of progress from 2019.

 

 

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's not right either, they really should run a route to give Josh options.  For example, if his LT gets blown backwards and pushed onto his ass.

I'm glad you said that.   Why wouldn't those guys run some kind of route?   Who knows what might happen on the play?   Or come down the line to block, if that's still legal.   Why wouldn't you want the QB to have the option to back off the pile and throw it?   That seems obvious.   Bills had three guys on the field who were total observers.  Granted, they occupied three defenders, to make the play 8 on 8, but that's not getting the most out of the fact that rules let you play with 11. 

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You said "WhoTom doesn't make stuff up" as though questioning him constituted an unreasonable accusation of "making stuff up", or at least so it seemed to me.  If you'd said "I generally trust WhoTom" I would not have asked "may it not be questioned?"

 

That's one of the places I asked, BTW and got no answer.

 

I feel I should add I generally agree with most of what you said in your "humbled at the goal line" thread, especially that McDermott's goal is for the team to be playing its best in December, not October.  That said, it was supremely frustrating not to take that W home.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this explanation.  I wasn't trying to suggest that WhoTom is an infallible source.   I was only trying to explain why I relied on what he said.   

[Mat68]

The highest paid lineman on the team got blown up.  He stalemates and does not win Allen still gets it.  100’% the right call.  Buffalo led by a wide margin in almost every area.  A few tweaks and this very likley will be Buffalos last loss for a while. 

[BigAl2526]

On 10/20/2021 at 8:51 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

This week's Jim Kubiak Analysis from TBN

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/jim-kubiak-how-bills-used-unique-rpo-concepts-how-titans-made-josh-allen-uncomfortable/article_74cf078c-3136-11ec-81e1-7f49b77924f9.html

 

Some interesting breakdown of Daboll's use of RPOs early in the game.

 

Key assessment of the 4th and inches play (Kubiak incorrectly calls it "fourth and goal"):

 

For those who say it never should have come to that on the 2nd to last drive, Kubiak appears to agree with you:

 

Kubiak ends "Allen and the Bills were still the better team, despite the loss."  I don't know that I can agree; game has 3 phases and our D was a sieve.  We need to be better there.

 

The article has great video clips and play diagrams  and is well worth the trial subscription IMHO.  (Full disclosure some people have complained it is an ad-riddled, slow to load bad website but it behaves perfectly for me.  I do use ad blockers on my 'puter and the latest iOS on my idevices.)

 

"Better team" is a loaded term that can mean a lot of things.  In the end it is hard to argue that the better team was the team that lost.  However, I think the it can be argued that the Bills are a deeper and more talent laden team.