What happened to our red zone O?

[JerseyBills]

We were the best in the game last year and now we're terrible.  We can move the ball with ease down the field but can't do anything inside the 10.  We have no real running threat down there and should just spread em out n throw. 

This has been going on all year but our D was playing outta their minds so it hasn't been a hot topic.  

We were 2 of 5 today , our 3 misses got us 6 points. Wish we could run it in like every other team but that looks like our 1 weakness on O.

 

So how do we fix this ? If we want that Lombardi,  this is unacceptable,  it won't happen if we don't fix the RZ issues , I mean how do you go from the best RZ team to one of the worse??

[MJS]

Personally, I'm a little unhappy with Daboll's play calling in the red zone. Either he gets too cute or he tries running it up the middle to get stuffed. He really needs to work on his red zone packages.

 

It's almost as if he is scared to just have Allen throw it into the end zone or call normal plays.

[Greg S]

Despite the struggles in the red zone the Bills have scored 203 points thru 6 games. It shows they score a lot outside the red zone. Hopefully they figure it out before the Dolphins game. They will definitely need to improve going forward especially against the tougher teams.

[Comebackkid]

3 minutes ago, MJS said:

Personally, I'm a little unhappy with Daboll's play calling in the red zone. Either he gets too cute or he tries running it up the middle to get stuffed. He really needs to work on his red zone packages.

 

It's almost as if he is scared to just have Allen throw it into the end zone or call normal plays.

Exactly....I think daboll got kind of lackadaisical after the success last year.   We know we have the talent,.  So if the job isn't getting done look at the person calling the plays

[Einstein]

I am very frustrated with the amount of runs in the redzone this year.

 

Let Allen be the runner in the redzone - not a designed play but scrambling.

 

As Mike Florio mentioned in an article today, when Allen is in shotgun, he has 3 opportunities - Run, Pass, or Catch.

 

With a run play, you have 1 opportunity. Just run.

[frostbitmic]

Whenever they show Daboll up in the booth, there is a guy next to him with a big beard and long hair, who is that guy ?

[Scott7975]

I think the difference is that Daboll is trying to force the run in the red zone and even though its not working he keeps trying.  Last year they passed in the red zone.  Whether Josh was in the pocket or roll outs so he could run or pass... they passed.

 

I could be wrong about that.  Maybe they ran more last year with Moss and Motor but I don't think so.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Maybe his pops passing did affect him 

 

 

[IronyAbounds]

I think it has to do with the fact that the Bills' passing game is geared toward slant routes and medium routes that evaporate once you get close to the goal line. Couple that with an O Line not good enough to push people forward for the running game, and you have a combination that makes it harder to score a touchdown once the Bills are in the Red Zone.

[JohnNord]

I’m not really concerned about this.  We can improve red zone efficiency a lot easier than we can with line play.  

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

Exactly....I think daboll got kind of lackadaisical after the success last year.   We know we have the talent,.  So if the job isn't getting done look at the person calling the plays

 

 

We know we have the talent. We also know we have the OC.

 

Just because we have the talent doesn't mean the talent is executing.

 

Allen doesn't appear to be throwing as precisely and consistently as he did last year. That's a big part of it, IMO. There's plenty of blame to go around. Williams was kicking butt at RT last year and this year he's not good enough to keep a rookie off the field. Dawkins doesn't appear to be fully recovered from his bout of Covid. And Daboll get his share too, but it certainly isn't all on him.

[SCBills]

Give me 3 passes inside the 10 with the occasional Allen draw. 
 

Enough of this forced running game in condensed area behind an OL that struggles run blocking in these situations.  
 

All it does is waste a down and condenses the field even more for when Allen tries to throw a TD. 
 

We had a sequence last night with a designed short throw to Singletary, followed by a run.   Reminded me of the other game we lost (PIT) where we had a “and goal” situation where Allen never even threw into the end zone.  
 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by SCBills

[dave mcbride]

I don't think Josh is the greatest of fade throwers, which affects the production. That said, he threw a great corner route to Diggs in the EZ which was defended (and there was a false start on the play anyway by Long).

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Actually Diggs dropped that ball, should’ve been caught even though as you said it wouldn’t have counted….but that was also outside of the red zone…

He didn't so much drop it as the defender got his hand in there. Tough catch but great throw.

[CincyBillsFan]

Opposing defenses have recognized that our RB's minus Allen are below average as is the offensive line. Out strength has been Allen and our stable of play making wide receivers.  And recently we've seen Knox contribute from the TE position.

 

Our offense is hard to contain outside the Red Zone but once we get in close and lose the depth of the field our conventional running game and O line are not up to the task of punching the ball in.  Defenses focus on Allen running and/or our WR's making quick moves in the end zone.  They are doing everything in their power to take those away because they have NO fear of our conventional running game. Play action in the red zone doesn't work all that well when the D is ignoring it.  And when we do hand the ball off our slow, unable to make people miss RB's rarely gain much yardage.

 

And the Bills know this is true which is why they run gimmick plays like TE reverses and TE throws to the QB when in close to the goal line.  

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Statistically, what is a good red zone offense? Right now, we have the most trips in the league, scored 100% of the time, but have about a 58% TD rate. 
 

by comparison, TB is in the low 60%’s and KC is around 70%.
 

what is a very good/elite conversion rate? 

[CincyBillsFan]

19 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Give me 3 passes inside the 10 with the occasional Allen draw. 
 

Enough of this forced running game in condensed area behind an OL that struggles run blocking in these situations.  
 

All it does is waste a down and condenses the field even more for when Allen tries to throw a TD. 
 

We had a sequence last night with a designed short throw to Singletary, followed by a run.   Reminded me of the other game we lost (PIT) where we had a “and goal” situation where Allen never even threw into the end zone.  
 

 

Agree 100%.  They need to recognize that until they upgrade the RB & Guard positions they won't be very successful in conventionally attacking the Red Zone.  And I suspect they know this because of the number of gimmick plays they're using in the RZ.  IMO having Allen throw on every down inside the 20 and outside the 2 yard line is the way to go.  It's off the pass plays that Allen has his most dangerous runs and he should be encouraged to take off if he sees a hole.

 

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

We were the best in the game last year and now we're terrible.  We can move the ball with ease down the field but can't do anything inside the 10.  We have no real running threat down there and should just spread em out n throw. 

This has been going on all year but our D was playing outta their minds so it hasn't been a hot topic.  

We were 2 of 5 today , our 3 misses got us 6 points. Wish we could run it in like every other team but that looks like our 1 weakness on O.

 

So how do we fix this ? If we want that Lombardi,  this is unacceptable,  it won't happen if we don't fix the RZ issues , I mean how do you go from the best RZ team to one of the worse??

 

4 hours ago, MJS said:

Personally, I'm a little unhappy with Daboll's play calling in the red zone. Either he gets too cute or he tries running it up the middle to get stuffed. He really needs to work on his red zone packages.

 

It's almost as if he is scared to just have Allen throw it into the end zone or call normal plays.

 

4 hours ago, Comebackkid said:

Exactly....I think daboll got kind of lackadaisical after the success last year.   We know we have the talent,.  So if the job isn't getting done look at the person calling the plays

 

My thought is after the Steelers game, McD took Daboll to the woodshed and gave him a good talking to about he lack of running plays, so he's calling many more. It's certainly not an excessive amount by most teams standards, but when you factor in how well the Bills passing game is most of the time, less runs would likely be better.

 

So not sure if it's lackadaisical as much as trying to keep McD happy and have more balance.  Admittedly not so sure it's a good idea unless we make a trade for Henry.

 

Does make me wonder if they are going to run as much as they are, should they activate Berida as a 3rd different skill set RB??

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Agree 100%.  They need to recognize that until they upgrade the RB & Guard positions they won't be very successful in conventionally attacking the Red Zone.  And I suspect they know this because of the number of gimmick plays they're using in the RZ.  IMO having Allen throw on every down inside the 20 and outside the 2 yard line is the way to go.  It's off the pass plays that Allen has his most dangerous runs and he should be encouraged to take off if he sees a hole.

 

 

 

 

I'd be happy with runs on 2nd and 2, not 1st and 10 when the defense is expecting it.  We're not good enough to run most of the time when the defense is playing the run.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[CincyBillsFan]

Just now, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Statistically, what is a good red zone offense? Right now, we have the most trips in the league, scored 100% of the time, but have about a 58% TD rate. 
 

by comparison, TB is in the low 60%’s and KC is around 70%.
 

what is a very good/elite conversion rate? 

Good points. I think both can be true.  Because our offense is such a handful we get into the red zone a lot.  But once there we don't take full advantage of the opportunity's because we have fundamental deficiencies on offense. 

 

But ultimately the offense had 31 points, over 400 yards and only one TO.  You should win games when those kind of numbers are put up. We're complaining about the offense not being perfect in the RZ while ignoring the real reason we lost last night - poor defensive play. 

 

I think obsessing over the offense is a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees. Had the defense got the Titans off the field a couple of more times that would have meant at least 2 more possessions and likely 3 - 7 more points.  Then at the end at most we need is a FG to win the game.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

I'd be happy with runs on 2nd and 2, not 1st and 10 when the defense is expecting it.  We're not good enough to run most of the time when the defense is playing the run.

So would I. The most discouraging thing is that even when the D is not playing the run on 1st down our O-line and RB's can rarely exploit it for big gains.  To often what should have been 6 or 7 yard gains turn out to be 2 yard gains.

 

On almost every big run by a RB this season they have run through gaping holes, not made anyone miss or break a tackle. In fact Motors 14 yard run in the 1st quarter was the first time this season I saw a Bill's RB make something out of nothing. 

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

Once we start clicking in the endzone, we will be nearly unstoppable on offense.  We move the ball with ease down the field.

We are too good and too talented not to eventually resolve this.

 

This is why I didn't really feel down losing to TN.  We are going to lose games.  We will probably drop at least 2 more.  

 

We will get it right.