Josh Made It On 3rd Down!

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

HE MISSED A DOUBLE WIDE OPEN BEASLEY ON THAT PLAY. 

BALL GAME IF HE LOOKS AT HIM😡

🤦‍♂️

I can't believe either the announcers last night or people here aren't factoring in the following: Beasley was wide open because Allen decided to run the ball and the Titans defenders in the EZ rushed forward to stop him. The guy on Beasley pulled off of him to defend the Allen run. That's why he was so wide open.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Let's play this game.  Say Josh was in the act of fumbling it here and ground didn't cause the fumble... Which here, they ruled Josh was in control of the ball here:

Where do they spot the ball?  The ball didn't go out, Allen didn't go out until the ball was over the first down line:

His shoulders,  helmet, ball are all still inbounds right here above... The ball is NOT controlled and is being fumbled from before any body part but his hands and feet made contact with ground...

 

...Where would you put the ball?  Hypothetically had they ruled he was in the act of fumbling, or failed to control the ball before his right arm touched.

[BigDingus]

12 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Here's the other angle of the above shot I first posted.

 

That's not the other angle from the same shot above. You can clearly see the position of his hands & the ball are completely different. 

 

Yeah, it's another angle, but not of the original shot you posted.

[RyanC883]

the refs were terrible in this game (2 TDs from us on holding calls, but missing the holding on Henry's TD; PI on Hyde, but not on Tenn player mugging Diggs--, inconsistent), but they got this call correct.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

Remember... They overturned the original ruling on the field and placed the ball back.   Was Josh in control of ball when his arm went down or was he NOT in control and already in the act of fumbling it? The ball is in bounds,  shoulders, helmet inbounds till the ball crosses first down line.

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

That's not the other angle from the same shot above. You can clearly see the position of his hands & the ball are completely different. 

 

Yeah, it's another angle, but not of the original shot you posted.

Yes it is.  Same progression. A split second later in the sequence. 

 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Let's play this game.  Say Josh was in the act of fumbling it here and ground didn't cause the fumble... Which here, they ruled Josh was in control of the ball here:

Where do they spot the ball?  The ball didn't go out, Allen didn't go out until the ball was over the first down line:

His shoulders,  helmet, ball are all still inbounds right here above... The ball is NOT controlled and is being fumbled from before any body part but his hands and feet made contact with ground...

 

...Where would you put the ball?  Hypothetically had they ruled he was in the act of fumbling, or failed to control the ball before his right arm touched.

 

Then they'd have spotted where he started to fumble. You can't advance a fumble inside 2 minutes. If he had started fumbling before his arm was down the ball would have come back to where the fumble started.

[ExiledInIllinois]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

the refs were terrible in this game (2 TDs from us on holding calls, but missing the holding on Henry's TD; PI on Hyde, but not on Tenn player mugging Diggs--, inconsistent), but they got this call correct.  

SO he was in control of the ball here:

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Remember... They overturned the original ruling on the field and placed the ball back.   Was Josh in control of ball when his arm went down or was he NOT in control and already in the act of fumbling it? The ball is in bounds,  shoulders, helmet inbounds till the ball crosses first down line.

Yes it is.  Same progression. A split second later in the sequence. 

 

Are you still saying he made it? Is this a @Gugny-esque troll job?

[Gugny]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

Are you still saying he made it? Is this a @Gugny-esque troll job?

 

Don't ever insult me like this, again, please.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

12 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

It's super obvious and he was definitely short. No debate, unfortunately.

There is a debate in how the call was changed without an official review but I def agree they ended up with the right call.  If that was ruled a first down and went to an official review though like I would assume is the normal process I think it probably stands 

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

Are you still saying he made it? Is this a @Gugny-esque troll job?

😆..  If he was fumbling and NOT in control of the ball when his right forearm, elbow initially touched,  then yes... He made it.

 

If Josh was in control when his elbow, right forearm touched, then NO, he didn't make it.

 

And BTW... @Gugnyis a hack troll. 😆 I would never outwardly troll. 

[LeGOATski]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

😆..  If he was fumbling and NOT in control of the ball when his right forearm, elbow initially touched,  then yes... He made it.

 

If Josh was in control when his elbow, right forearm touched, then NO, he didn't make it.

 

And BTW... @Gugnyis a hack troll. 😆 I would never outwardly troll. 

I don't believe any of this

[RyanC883]

6 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

SO he was in control of the ball here:

 

he's down in that shot.  I think he has control.  I can't see the first or where his elbow first hit, but when I saw the replay yesterday he looked short to me.    are you saying the refs missed the spot and JA had a first?  I'm saying the refs were eventually correct that he did not.  

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

There is a debate in how the call was changed without an official review but I def agree they ended up with the right call.  If that was ruled a first down and went to an official review though like I would assume is the normal process I think it probably stands 

So he was in control of the ball here:

But NOT here a split second later:

Did the ground cause this fumble? Both arms are splayed wide open ball in middle of his chest crossing first down line while everything is still IN bounds.

 

Maybe they got the original call right on the field in real time? ???

4 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I don't believe any of this

Just answer the questions.   Was he in control of the ball (with his left hand only) when his right elbow, forearm touched:

He obviously wasn't a millisecond later:

Did the ground cause the fumble when his right arm touched... Causing his totally independent left hand to lose control of ball?

[LeGOATski]

Yeah, so you just proved he was short.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

IFF he was in control of ball with left hand when right arm touched,  then YES, they made right call.   If no, he wasn't in control of ball, then Allen made the first down. 

 

Remember... The on-field spot was that he made it. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

 

IFF he was in control of ball with left hand when right arm touched,  then YES, they made right call.   If no, he wasn't in control of ball, then Allen made the first down. 

 

Remember... The on-field spot was that he made it. 

I think someone pointed out earlier that the ball is spotted at the start of the fumble. It doesn't advance forward. So, good job, you proved he was short.

[ExiledInIllinois]

3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, so you just proved he was short.

Yes.  If he was in control with left hand when right touched.

 

Was he, I think you said yes.

 

What caused him to lose control here:

Neither hands on ball.

 

The ground when his right hand hit.

 

I could postulate he wasn't in control before he his right arm touched.  That's what they called on field, in real-time first...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

13 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

He didn't, though. The ball was not extended when his initial arm/elbow hit, spotting the ball short. They got that call right, unfortunately. 

 

You don't get his rolling momentum. You get the initial ball location when he is first down or out of bounds.

I am the first guy to blame the refs usually— but that was literally a perfect spot. 

[LeGOATski]

1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Yes.  If he was in control with left hand when right touched.

 

Was he, I think you said yes.

 

What caused him to lose control here:

Neither hands on ball.

 

The ground when his right hand hit.

 

I could postulate he wasn't in control before he his right arm touched.  That's what they called on field, in real-time first...

So he's short either way. He's short if he was in control and he's also short if he wasn't in control.