Josh Allen 2022 season verdict... OC & DC let him down: 64.5% comp %, 51 TDs, 18 TOs, 97.9 Passer Rating, 313 YPG (offseason assessments page 46 on)

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, What a Tuel said:

 

You completely wrote it off by saying "No week 17 happened instead" when someone brought it up as a good point for Allen that happened recently. 

 

"No, Allen just threw 3 picks against the Atlanta Falcons.  Joe Burrow just threw for 400 yards and 4 TD's against the #1 seed in the AFC."

 

But whatever, zero in on this most recent game, I don't really care. Next week when Allen dismantles the Jets, Falcons will be 2 weeks away and wont matter in the MVP vote, right?

Yeah because Josh just had a pretty bad game. I was talking about peaking. Joe Burrow is peaking, Josh is not, because Joe Burrow just knocked off the one seed and is playing out of his mind, and Josh, despite having a great game against the Pats, just played kinda brutal against the Falcons.

 

This isn’t difficult to understand for folks who don’t have a weird Josh Allen chip on their shoulder. I still think he’s great and one of the best QB’s in football and I think someone else has better odds for MVP. Sacrilege, I know. Burn me at the stake!

[BigBuff423]

It's a tired and old discussion at this point, but does anyone truly believe that Josh WOULDN'T benefit from a dome? Is it that hard to see that in a controlled environment his abilities are on full display as opposed to overcoming the wind, precipitation, and at times the cold? People argue that Rodgers and others play in cold, and yes, they do. But they rarely play in the full on wind, snow, and rain that Buffalo plays in at least a three times per year at home. Oh, and that means at 8 games, that's roughly 40% of their home games. In December 2014, when the Pack came to Buffalo, Rodgers went 17-42 for 185 yards, and 2 INTs - with no TDs. That's the last time the Pack came to Buffalo. No, one game doesn't provide context, but it does show that weather can impact any player - no matter how great they are. 

 

Josh's worst games tend to come in challenging weather...that's not an indictment against him nor is it an excuse. But to think that weather doesn't impact gameplay would be myopic in my opinion and a refusal to accept reality. Put Josh in a dome for 8 or 9 games, plus Miami, plus the southern and / or dome teams he plays, I think you'd see a drastic jump in the numbers. I truly do believe a 5,000 yard 50 total TD season is very possible in a dome for Josh. But I also think this team needs to continue to evolve and become less QB dependent given the current situation. To see more of Motor doing what he's done the last few weeks, getting Breida out of the backfield as a receiver and speed guy on the edges and mixing in Moss for some runs as well does an Offense good! 

 

Do I believe Josh is an MVP contender? Yes, but those that vote would need to watch the entire game and not just his 2 INTs. Because while those were disheartening, he also showed why he is an MVP candidate. He took the team on his back, and willed them to a win when the weather refused to help. The Offensive Line got better with run blocking and Motor showed his tenacity, which is exactly what he needs to keep his game at this productive level. But let's not get it twisted, Josh carried the team and the MVP is short for Most VALUABLE Player to his team in the league....Josh is that, to his credit and to the team's detriment.

[section122]

I'm all caught up on this thread and I have to say....

 

Rodgers could win it but Brady will win it.

 

More than anything MVP is a narrative award.  Don't discount how upset the media was with Rodgers skirting covid rules and being "immunized".  Brady at 44 is having another all time year.  At his age, I think he gets the cherry on top MVP.

 

Brady has almost 1k more passing yards than Rodgers, is the only qb in the league averaging over 300 ypg, and has the most td throws.  He has 2 5td games and another 4 4tds games.  He has 3 400 yard passing games.  He is going to end the year with over 5000 passing yards and 40 tds.  

 

I know nobody here wants to see it but I feel it is inevitable.  Charity bet anyone?

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

 

Do I believe Josh is an MVP contender? Yes, but those that vote would need to watch the entire game and not just his 2 INTs. Because while those were disheartening, he also showed why he is an MVP candidate. He took the team on his back, and willed them to a win when the weather refused to help. The Offensive Line got better with run blocking and Motor showed his tenacity, which is exactly what he needs to keep his game at this productive level. But let's not get it twisted, Josh carried the team and the MVP is short for Most VALUABLE Player to his team in the league....Josh is that, to his credit and to the team's detriment.

1. he had 3 INTs, not 2

2. they aren’t building a dome

3. the weather was not that bad yesterday by game time. It was cold, yes, but most of the snow had already fallen and the wind wasn’t bad

4. yeah, the no. 1 defense that blanked ATL in the 2nd half, or Motor running so well, had nothing to do with that win. All Josh - he willed them to victory 🙄

 

Allen put together enough running the ball to salvage his day. But he did not carry them to that win. 

[BigBuff423]

33 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

1. he had 3 INTs, not 2

2. they aren’t building a dome

3. the weather was not that bad yesterday by game time. It was cold, yes, but most of the snow had already fallen and the wind wasn’t bad

4. yeah, the no. 1 defense that blanked ATL in the 2nd half, or Motor running so well, had nothing to do with that win. All Josh - he willed them to victory 🙄

 

Allen put together enough running the ball to salvage his day. But he did not carry them to that win. 

 

1. Fair point, my bad

2. You don't know the Bills aren't building a dome and when you say it like a fact the tone of a statement which is in fact an opinion, only serves to be aloof rather than engaging. Don't be condescending, there's no need. We're all fans and sharing our perspectives. 

3. I continued to watch the snow fall throughout the game, and precipitation covered the turf throughout the game. Go watch and come back to correct your error.

4. Nobody said the Defense didn't help and I think I actually said Motor running with tenacity helped him and the team. But Josh put the team on his back...again, go watch the game again and take your initial impressions out of it. 

 

You cannot say he did enough to salvage his day, when the Falcons did everything to take the passing game away, and also used that game plan to do exactly that by getting those 3 INTs and then say Josh didn't carry the team with his play. But, your opinion is just as valid as any others, so we'll just agree to disagree. 

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

1. Fair point, my bad

2. You don't know the Bills aren't building a dome and when you say it like a fact the tone of a statement which is in fact an opinion, only serves to be aloof rather than engaging. Don't be condescending, there's no need. We're all fans and sharing our perspectives. 

3. I continued to watch the snow fall throughout the game, and precipitation covered the turf throughout the game. Go watch and come back to correct your error.

4. Nobody said the Defense didn't help and I think I actually said Motor running with tenacity helped him and the team. But Josh put the team on his back...again, go watch the game again and take your initial impressions out of it. 

 

You cannot say he did enough to salvage his day, when the Falcons did everything to take the passing game away, and also used that game plan to do exactly that by getting those 3 INTs and then say Josh didn't carry the team with his play. But, your opinion is just as valid as any others, so we'll just agree to disagree. 

I will correct myself - all signs so far indicate they are not building a domed stadium. 
 

I was at the game I don’t need to watch it on tv to get an accurate idea of how the weather was. The snowfall was negligible.

Edited January 4, 2022 by JoPoy88

[transplantbillsfan]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Joe Burrow is peaking late. Josh Allen is not. 
 

If Burrow goes off again on the Browns next week he could win it IMO.

 

"Goes off."

 

You do realize Allen sits alone as having the 2nd most TDs in the NFL right now, right?

 

What if both Josh Allen and Joe Burrow accumulate 400 total yards and 4 TDs and 0 Turnovers next game.

 

How is Burrow (40 TDs, 4568 yards, 16 turnovers) a guy who could win it at that point while Allen (44 TDs, 5268 yards, 18 turnovers) could not?

 

That would mean in their last 5 respective games they'd have both gone 4-1 and had 15 TDs for their respective teams, both division winners.

 

Does it then become about yards? But on the year Allen has 700 more yards than Burrow and is 80% of Buffalo’s offense whereas Burrow is 76.6% of his.

 

Turnovers? Okay 2 more on the year. But Allen has the ball in his hands more as just mentioned.

 

All of this is to say... aren't you one of the guys now saying Allen has no shot for MVP at this point? If that's true how the hell does Burrow have a shot?

Edited January 4, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[Scott7975]

20 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

In all honesty, this is what bugs me as this is what we hear a lot - hope Josh learns, hope Josh learns, hope Josh learns. But we’ve seen this creep back into his game just when we do think he has learned; the Steelers was a shaky performance all round, then (yes, with a bad O-Line) the Jags, then the Pats, then the first half against the Bucs, then the Pats at home, then the second quarter yesterday. Others have rightly said it’s great we adjusted, utilised his other strengths and won, with Josh managing to recover mentally in the second half to lead us over the line, but for someone who has all the capabilities of being one of the best QBs ever, not just for the Bills, he has these passing games more often than I like and, more concerning, more than he had last year.

 

You are never going to get perfection out of any QB every game.  All QBs have down games.  Josh is no different.  You just see him more and want perfection where perfection does not exist.

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

Joe Burrow is peaking late. Josh Allen is not. 
 

If Burrow goes off again on the Browns next week he could win it IMO.

What is peaking late?  He had 157 yards passing 1 TD three weeks ago against Denver.  He has also been up and down all season.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Scott7975

[Scott7975]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

No, Allen just threw 3 picks against the Atlanta Falcons.  Joe Burrow just threw for 400 yards and 4 TD's against the #1 seed in the AFC.

 

Burrow had 3 against the Bears and 2 against the Browns.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

All of this is to say... aren't you one of the guys now saying Allen has no shot for MVP at this point? If that's true how the hell does Burrow have a shot?

 

Burrow has no shot either. 

[machine gun kelly]

Allen won’t win MVP, but does it really matter.  I just don’t see the fascination with power rankings, mvp, pro bowl, etc.  win the darn SB.  That is the only thing that matters.

 

Allen has had another excellent year, but as someone else stated, he’s not a robot.  Even franchise QB’s have good and bad days.  Remember Brady at his peak threw 4 INT’s against us when we won with Fitzy.  Brady had a bad day.  He’s still the GOAT.

[FireChans]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

"Goes off."

 

You do realize Allen sits alone as having the 2nd most TDs in the NFL right now, right?

 

What if both Josh Allen and Joe Burrow accumulate 400 total yards and 4 TDs and 0 Turnovers next game.

 

How is Burrow (40 TDs, 4568 yards, 16 turnovers) a guy who could win it at that point while Allen (44 TDs, 5268 yards, 18 turnovers) could not?

 

That would mean in their last 5 respective games they'd have both gone 4-1 and had 15 TDs for their respective teams, both division winners.

 

Does it then become about yards? But on the year Allen has 700 more yards than Burrow and is 80% of Buffalo’s offense whereas Burrow is 76.6% of his.

 

Turnovers? Okay 2 more on the year. But Allen has the ball in his hands more as just mentioned.

 

All of this is to say... aren't you one of the guys now saying Allen has no shot for MVP at this point? If that's true how the hell does Burrow have a shot?

Joe Burrow just threw for 900 yards and 8 TD’s in his last two games to win his division and beat the #1 seed. That’s how.

5 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

You are never going to get perfection out of any QB every game.  All QBs have down games.  Josh is no different.  You just see him more and want perfection where perfection does not exist.

What is peaking late?  He had 157 yards passing 1 TD three weeks ago against Denver.  He has also been up and down all season.

See above. Not sure if you saw.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

19 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Of course not. But more consistency in his play considering the strength of his arm and the clear attributes at his disposal?

He got unlucky in the falcons game from what I saw…still made a ton of great plays with his arm and legs but on paper those 3 picks look bad.  Every qb has a handful of balls batted each game that always seem to fall incomplete but the falcons just happened to have two fall right into their lap.  That second pick looked like Beasley could’ve come down with it or at least knocked it away but he quit on the route. Didn’t mind that one much cuz it shows josh is throwing with anticipation at least…Beasley got held though which threw the timing off and then he just gave up 

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, FireChans said:

Joe Burrow just threw for 900 yards and 8 TD’s in his last two games to win his division and beat the #1 seed. That’s how.

 

500+ yards against essentially a street squad in the Ravens who were missing half their roster.  It was an impressive asterisk game by Burrow.

 

Yep, Burrow played great on the road in KC, beating the #1 seed.  So did Allen, who had 377 yards, 4 TDS and 0 turnovers in a National Primetime game and trounced them.  No, Allen didn't go over 400 yards like Burrow, but he didn't have to because our game was wrapped up in the 4th quarter so that on our last drive when we got the ball with 3:27 left in the game Allen handed the ball off to Zach Moss 5 times and kneeled 3 times.

 

And Allen can wrap up our division this weekend.

 

So again I ask... how in the world could you consider Burrow for the MVP discussion, but not Allen?

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

32 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

So again I ask... how in the world could you consider Burrow for the MVP discussion, but not Allen?

 

Because he is a notorious Allen doubter who only recently climbed aboard; like many on this board, they change their stripes weekly.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

😆 

i see that this thread is aging well

 

 

The race was over losing to the Jags

Edited January 4, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

500+ yards against essentially a street squad in the Ravens who were missing half their roster.  It was an impressive asterisk game by Burrow.

 

Yep, Burrow played great on the road in KC, beating the #1 seed.  So did Allen, who had 377 yards, 4 TDS and 0 turnovers in a National Primetime game and trounced them.  No, Allen didn't go over 400 yards like Burrow, but he didn't have to because our game was wrapped up in the 4th quarter so that on our last drive when we got the ball with 3:27 left in the game Allen handed the ball off to Zach Moss 5 times and kneeled 3 times.

 

And Allen can wrap up our division this weekend.

 

So again I ask... how in the world could you consider Burrow for the MVP discussion, but not Allen?

Because I believe that recency bias exists.  Do you truly believe if the vote was held today, Burrow would not receive more votes than Allen?

[transplantbillsfan]

50 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

😆

i see that this thread is aging well

 

 

The race was over losing to the Jags

 

Ummm... no it wasn't.  This is a really stupid post.

 

You were doing so well ignoring me for so long... guess the childish and petty half of you has to inevitably force it's way out.

20 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Because I believe that recency bias exists.  Do you truly believe if the vote was held today, Burrow would not receive more votes than Allen?

 

I think we could have a legitimate conversation about this one if you wanted to not turn it personal as you like to.

 

I think if the vote were to be held today, I could see Burrow getting more votes than Allen.  I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as you do, but yeah I could see that in terms of recency bias. I've said multiple times since Sunday's game (including in the changed title of the thread) that I no longer think Allen really has a shot at league MVP, though I think he'll get some votes.

 

Do you personally believe that Burrow deserves the MVP more than Allen, though?

Edited January 4, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Ummm... no it wasn't.  This is a really stupid post.

 

You were doing so well ignoring me for so long... guess the childish and petty half of you has to inevitably force it's way out.

 

I think we could have a legitimate conversation about this one if you wanted to not turn it personal as you like to.

 

I think if the vote were to be held today, I could see Burrow getting more votes than Allen.  I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk as you do, but yeah I could see that in terms of recency bias. I've said multiple times since Sunday's game (including in the changed title of the thread) that I no longer think Allen really has a shot at league MVP, though I think he'll get some votes.

 

Do you personally believe that Burrow deserves the MVP more than Allen, though?

My argument was never who I thought deserved it more. You should have read my posts.