Josh Allen 2022 season verdict... OC & DC let him down: 64.5% comp %, 51 TDs, 18 TOs, 97.9 Passer Rating, 313 YPG (offseason assessments page 46 on)

[RiotAct]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

I am sure Josh understands it more than anyone else.   He was a slipped 4th and inches call away from beating two of the top dogs in the AFC.   He is now going to play on national TV against the Saints,  Patriots and the Panthers.  I think he is going to be ready.  

good chance the Panthers game won’t be flexed.  But, we’ll see

[Mat68]

He is putting up similar to better numbers than last year.  He was second in the MVP.  The odds makers have it tied to conference standings.  If Buffalo is the first or second seed Allen would have played very well.  Allen would be a favorite. 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Despite a bad loss against the Dolphins I think the MVP is Lamar's to lose. 

Why do you feel that way? I mean, he should be in consideration for sure, but 7 QB's have more passing yards, 14 have more TD passes. He has thrown the 7th most INT's. I don't think his 600 yards rushing and 2 rushing TD's makes up for his lack of passing stats.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Okay stalker... glad you never post any dumb tweets...

 

oh wait... 

 

And also... the fact that JA has never thrown a RZ interception is absolutely incredible.

1.  If you think i am stalking (fake news) report me 

 

2. The remark was for the the twit who Tweeted it. 
 

 

 

Oh and why not post JA records in the JA Record breaking thread?  🤔 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I doubt he will ever have this many again, agree with that. Marcus Peters had 8 as a rookie and has never matched it. Part of that is people will stop throwing at him quite so much but they will adjust when they throw at him and how they throw at him to try and take advantage of his aggressive style. But Peters has still averaged over 5.5 INTs per year in the years following his rookie season, so being a ball hawk who regularly takes the ball away is sustainable. You don't have to be Tre White to be an impactful corner in the NFL. There are maybe two or three guys that teams don't throw at - Tre White, Jalen Ramsey and increasingly Jaire Alexander - even the other top 5 or 6 guys like Hayward and Humphrey and Lattimore get thrown at. Being a guy who takes the ball away regularly is, in itself, an impact and Diggs has the instincts and that real aggressive style to sustain making plays in this league. Basically it isn't just luck. Diggs is good. His style is boom or bust, but so is Marcus Peters, so is Xavien Howard... they have still be really good corners in the NFL. 

I get the Marcus Peters comparison, but I would add that Marcus has changed teams multiple times and Rams D made a significant improvement when they traded him and brought in Ramsey who makes a more consistent and bigger impact throughout each game.

 

I don’t disagree he is a talent, I wanted to draft him even.  Remember, my original comment you responded to was that I said he would not win MVP.  And the reason was because he gets burned more than he gets interceptions.  If he had these crazy INT totals and was a shutdown corner, maybe he would have shot at MVP.  
 

But reality is that he is giving up a lot of big plays when not making an INT, and there are just more people who make a bigger impact to their team and overall outcome of the game then his one play a game where he intercepts a pass.  

 

It’s no doubt an amazing accomplishment, and I like him.  My stance is his season is not MVP worthy, and while I know he definitely has a case for DPOY, I really don’t think he deserves to win that either.  I would vote for either Watt, Garrett or Donald before I’d vote for Diggs this year.  One could make a case Diggs isn’t even the most important person on his own Cowboys defense and that Parsons is.  
 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I get the Marcus Peters comparison, but I would add that Marcus has changed teams multiple times and Rams D made a significant improvement when they traded him and brought in Ramsey who makes a more consistent and bigger impact throughout each game.

 

I don’t disagree he is a talent, I wanted to draft him even.  Remember, my original comment you responded to was that I said he would not win MVP.  And the reason was because he gets burned more than he gets interceptions.  If he had these crazy INT totals and was a shutdown corner, maybe he would have shot at MVP.  
 

But reality is that he is giving up a lot of big plays when not making an INT, and there are just more people who make a bigger impact to their team and overall outcome of the game then his one play a game where he intercepts a pass.  

 

It’s no doubt an amazing accomplishment, and I like him.  My stance is his season is not MVP worthy, and while I know he definitely has a case for DPOY, I really don’t think he deserves to win that either.  I would vote for either Watt, Garrett or Donald before I’d vote for Diggs this year.  One could make a case Diggs isn’t even the most important person on his own Cowboys defense and that Parsons is.  
 

 

 

I agree he shouldn't be MVP. My only original contention was I think saying he gets burned "often" is a bit of an exaggeration. He has been burned on 3 or 4 big memory worthy plays particularly against New England and Denver but he is actually giving up a lower completion rate when targeted than Jalen Ramsey and Xavien Howard and the same rate as Jaire Alexander. I don't think he is a shut down guy, the next young shut down guy is Surtain in Denver. He is at Tre White style numbers for completion against as a rook. That kid is different class. 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree he shouldn't be MVP. My only original contention was I think saying he gets burned "often" is a bit of an exaggeration. He has been burned on 3 or 4 big memory worthy plays particularly against New England and Denver but he is actually giving up a lower completion rate when targeted than Jalen Ramsey and Xavien Howard and the same rate as Jaire Alexander. I don't think he is a shut down guy, the next young shut down guy is Surtain in Denver. He is at Tre White style numbers for completion against as a rook. That kid is different class. 

 

Its not just big plays, he is middle of the pack on giving up receptions.  Like I said, there is a reason he is targeted so much.  Maybe "often" came across as exaggerated, but the point is he has been playing an all or nothing style committing to the INT.  And I think that is a more selfish style of play, and don't be surprised if it contributes to the cowboys getting bounced in the playoffs because he gives up too much in a game and doesn't get the INT he is selling out for.  

 

Again, I don't disagree he is a talent, but IMHO his overall play is being over rated because of the INT total is so incredible.  

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Its not just big plays, he is middle of the pack on giving up receptions.  Like I said, there is a reason he is targeted so much.  Maybe "often" came across as exaggerated, but the point is he has been playing an all or nothing style committing to the INT.  And I think that is a more selfish style of play, and don't be surprised if it contributes to the cowboys getting bounced in the playoffs because he gives up too much in a game and doesn't get the INT he is selling out for.  

 

Again, I don't disagree he is a talent, but IMHO his overall play is being over rated because of the INT total is so incredible.  

 

But his reception % allowed is comparable with a lot of the top guys. He is being thrown at a lot cos Dallas are up big a lot. He has only been targeted twice more than Tre White - so it is not like teams are throwing at him every down. Now White has a better completion against % but not being Tre is not a criticism. I wouldn't swap White for any corner in the NFL. Yes, Diggs's style is a bit all or nothing but it is just as likely to result in a pick that wins them a playoff game. He is a darn good player and the interceptions are not luck. Nor are the big plays he has given up coincidence. When you play that way you give up some plays. But you made it sound like it is either a pick or a play given up. That just isn't the case. He has 13 passes defensed to go with his 8 picks and only a 54% completion rate against.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

1.  If you think i am stalking (fake news) report me 

 

2. The remark was for the the twit who Tweeted it. 
 

 

 

Oh and why not post JA records in the JA Record breaking thread?  🤔 

 

 

 

How old are you?  You act like a child.

 

This is an ongoing thread about Josh Allen's year this year and his place in the MVP race.  Not throwing a RZ interception is certainly one notch in his belt towards that, along with all the records he has and will break.

 

But carry on 

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

But his reception % allowed is comparable with a lot of the top guys. He is being thrown at a lot cos Dallas are up big a lot. He has only been targeted twice more than Tre White - so it is not like teams are throwing at him every down. Now White has a better completion against % but not being Tre is not a criticism. I wouldn't swap White for any corner in the NFL. Yes, Diggs's style is a bit all or nothing but it is just as likely to result in a pick that wins them a playoff game. He is a darn good player and the interceptions are not luck. Nor are the big plays he has given up coincidence. When you play that way you give up some plays. But you made it sound like it is either a pick or a play given up. That just isn't the case. He has 13 passes defensed to go with his 8 picks and only a 54% completion rate against.

 

I never said he was a bum, I have said many times he is a good player and I like him.  Again, you took one comment out of context.  

 

I already explained my stance on him many times, and you don't actually seem to disagree with that stance.  You just keep coming back to this one thing that I already acknowledged came across as exaggerated.  

 

But...you are also exaggerating him a bit on the positive side.  He isn't being targeted because the Cowboys are up big...they have only been up big 3 times like that the whole season.  Also, this notion that his INT's aren't "lucky" either is just not entirely accurate either.  Atleast 4 of them were flat out lucky.  

 

I went back and just watched all 8 only because I know there were serval I saw live that were more of the lucky caliber.

 

Int #1:  Lucky...ball bounces off hands of RB on a screen and goes right to him 4 yards away.  Otherwise its a big gain as they had plenty of blocking out front for that screen to Fournette.

Int #2:  Not luck...makes great play on the ball thrown by Herbert.

Int #3:  I wouldn't call it lucky, but awful awful pass by Hurts that was behind his receiver on an out where the receiver also fell down.  Easy pick for any DB. 

Int #4:  Lucky:  Darnolds pass was no where near Anderson and not only behind him but off target...had it been on target it was a big gain by Anderson who had a ton of room in front of him to run.

Int #5:  Not Luck:  Makes a great play, similar to the one on Herbert at #2 above for his 2nd of the game against Darnold.

Int #6:  Not Luck:  Well played on a poorly thrown deep ball that was under thrown by Danny Dimes.

Int #7:  Lucky:  Ball went through the receivers hands, otherwise its caught for a first down.  Mistake by the WR, not good coverage by Diggs.

Int #8:  Lucky:  Pitts was wide open and Ryan throws a terrible ball that was both behind and sailed over his head right to Diggs.  On target and another big gain by Pitts.  

 

FWIW, I am sure you can do this with any DB, so not meant to discredit Diggs, his 8 Ints this early in the season are insane.  But you said his INT's aren't luck multiple times now, and I already knew of several that were.

 

Again, does not diminish his 8 int's by any means, he still needs to make that catch when the opportunity arises and many cornerbacks drop a lot of those.  So still deserves a lot of credit.  My point here is that when he no longer gets those fortunate bounces, what are you left with?  So I still think he is going to need to adjust in order to become a consistent top corner in this league.  

 

There are a lot of guys who have those big INT total seasons...but never repeat.  Its what he does when he is not getting those INT's I am always more interested in when it comes to a cornerback.  And right now, I think he is too hyper focused on trying to get the INT and I have a feeling its going to hurt them when they are playing in a lose and go home playoff game.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

19 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

How old are you?  You act like a child.

 

This is an ongoing thread about Josh Allen's year this year and his place in the MVP race.  Not throwing a RZ interception is certainly one notch in his belt towards that, along with all the records he has and will break.

 

But carry on 

 

It is still a dumb tweet as JOSH and the Bills are NOT scoring TD’s in the RZ like they did last season.  
 

As to being childish 
 

Who is insulting whom and screaming Stalker?

IMO the tweet as ignorant on a number of levels 

Edited November 15, 2021 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

 

There are a lot of guys who have those big INT total seasons...but never repeat.  Its what he does when he is not getting those INT's I am always more interested in when it comes to a cornerback.  And right now, I think he is too hyper focused on trying to get the INT and I have a feeling its going to hurt them when they are playing in a lose and go home playoff game.  

 

And that is why I keep coming back because I don't think he is too hyper focused on trying to get an INT. I think that is a mischaracterisation. I think he plays a bit of a boom and bust style, but it isn't so boom or bust that he either gets the INT or gives up a play. He has had 29 catches made on him in 9 games, 2 for touchdowns, at a 54% clip and on the flip side he has 8 INTs (two returned for touchdowns) and 13 passes defensed. I mean he is very clearly coming out on the positive end of that and in fact would be even if you only looked at passes defensed. He isn't just getting hype for his INTs. He is playing well, even though he has given up a couple of big plays I am sure he would like back against New England and Denver.

 

EDIT: Although I agree he isn't going to win an MVP. I think he will finish top 2 in DPOTY. Will be him and Garrett. 

Edited November 15, 2021 by GunnerBill

[DapperCam]

Allen probably could have had 5 TDs easy yesterday, but Bills were emphasizing the running game. Not great for his MVP bid, but great for the Bills having a more balanced attack.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

It is still a dumb tweet as JOSH and the Bills are NOT scoring TD’s in the RZ like they did last season.  
 

As to being childish 
 

Who is insulting whom and screaming Stalker?

IMO the tweet as ignorant on a number of levels 

 

They also aren't turning it over, which is a big deal.

 

You ask who's insulting whom and screaming stalker?  Well I'm not insulting you and I'm not screaming.  I'm just stating facts.  You've been obsessed with me for years.  I used to engage, but that grew tiresome.  Now I'll just generally act like you aren't there.  

 

But now that we're back in what appear to be glory years, I'm just trying to help you.  Shed the negativity and the obsessions.  They do you no good in life... even a life as yours spent on the Internet.

14 hours ago, ganesh said:

The guys on TV said that the Bills upcoming schedule is brutal...  Colts,  Saints, Bucaneers and Patriots.    I can see us swinging 2-2 on those 4 games.  Hopefully. the 2 wins will be against the Colts and Patriots...The Bills cannot afford another conference loss (they already have 3)

 

The Bills next 6 games appear tough because Carolina is probably going to be a fairly tough game now that Darnold isn't the QB and then we play the Patriots again in a quick turnaround.

 

Honestly, I'll be pretty happy if we go 4-2 in the next 6 games.  I'll be ecstatic if we go 5-1.

 

And yes, how Josh plays in those 6 games will really help or hurt his case.  But as of this moment, I think he's at the head of the race.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

15 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

 

It is still a dumb tweet as JOSH and the Bills are NOT scoring TD’s in the RZ like they did last season.  
 

As to being childish 
 

Who is insulting whom and screaming Stalker?

IMO the tweet as ignorant on a number of levels 

Ask Lamar Jackson if he would’ve rather thrown an incompletion instead of a pick six in the red zone last year against the bills in the playoffs.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Despite a bad loss against the Dolphins I think the MVP is Lamar's to lose. 

 

Lamar is NOT the MVP and he wasn't even before that Dolphins loss.  He's a really good QB, but he's not on Josh's level this year.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

50 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Allen probably could have had 5 TDs easy yesterday, but Bills were emphasizing the running game. Not great for his MVP bid, but great for the Bills having a more balanced attack.

Agreed. They tried to get him one more to Knox and when that fell incomplete it was just too easy to hand off and score.

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Despite a bad loss against the Dolphins I think the MVP is Lamar's to lose. 

 

Lamar isn't even close.

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I never said he was a bum, I have said many times he is a good player and I like him.  Again, you took one comment out of context.  

 

I already explained my stance on him many times, and you don't actually seem to disagree with that stance.  You just keep coming back to this one thing that I already acknowledged came across as exaggerated.  

 

But...you are also exaggerating him a bit on the positive side.  He isn't being targeted because the Cowboys are up big...they have only been up big 3 times like that the whole season.  Also, this notion that his INT's aren't "lucky" either is just not entirely accurate either.  Atleast 4 of them were flat out lucky.  

 

I went back and just watched all 8 only because I know there were serval I saw live that were more of the lucky caliber.

 

Int #1:  Lucky...ball bounces off hands of RB on a screen and goes right to him 4 yards away.  Otherwise its a big gain as they had plenty of blocking out front for that screen to Fournette.

Int #2:  Not luck...makes great play on the ball thrown by Herbert.

Int #3:  I wouldn't call it lucky, but awful awful pass by Hurts that was behind his receiver on an out where the receiver also fell down.  Easy pick for any DB. 

Int #4:  Lucky:  Darnolds pass was no where near Anderson and not only behind him but off target...had it been on target it was a big gain by Anderson who had a ton of room in front of him to run.

Int #5:  Not Luck:  Makes a great play, similar to the one on Herbert at #2 above for his 2nd of the game against Darnold.

Int #6:  Not Luck:  Well played on a poorly thrown deep ball that was under thrown by Danny Dimes.

Int #7:  Lucky:  Ball went through the receivers hands, otherwise its caught for a first down.  Mistake by the WR, not good coverage by Diggs.

Int #8:  Lucky:  Pitts was wide open and Ryan throws a terrible ball that was both behind and sailed over his head right to Diggs.  On target and another big gain by Pitts.  

 

FWIW, I am sure you can do this with any DB, so not meant to discredit Diggs, his 8 Ints this early in the season are insane.  But you said his INT's aren't luck multiple times now, and I already knew of several that were.

 

Again, does not diminish his 8 int's by any means, he still needs to make that catch when the opportunity arises and many cornerbacks drop a lot of those.  So still deserves a lot of credit.  My point here is that when he no longer gets those fortunate bounces, what are you left with?  So I still think he is going to need to adjust in order to become a consistent top corner in this league.  

 

There are a lot of guys who have those big INT total seasons...but never repeat.  Its what he does when he is not getting those INT's I am always more interested in when it comes to a cornerback.  And right now, I think he is too hyper focused on trying to get the INT and I have a feeling its going to hurt them when they are playing in a lose and go home playoff game.  

 

Wasn't Jairus Byrd like this as well? One season with huge INT totals and then never again?

 

EDIT:

Yup...9 as a rookie then never more than 5 any year after. Perhaps part of it is them freelancing more as a rookie because they don't know their assignments as well?

 

Henry Jones same thing...had 8 in his first full year as a starter and then never more than 3, and 3 seasons of none.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Big Turk

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

Stafford not making a good case tonight.

NFL QB’s playing hot potato with the MVP this year.