Should NFL refs start being suspended for idiotic calls?

[LeGOATski]

6 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

First, I used to complain about the part-time ref thing, but as I understand it, the NFL has changed that.   A few years ago they introduced full-time refs, and I saw something a year ago that said that the program was enthusiastically adopted by the officials.  The NFL's objective was to have at least one full-time official per crew, and I think they've ended up with a significant number (maybe approaching half) being full-timers.   I'm sure the NFL grades the refs, and I'm sure their assignments, even their ability to keep their job, depends somewhat on their grades.   I don't think NFL officials get tenure. 

 

I'd hope they also have conditioning requirements.  I think they must - we used to see guys waddling around out there, but not so much any more.   They seem to run with the plays pretty well - obviously, they aren't going to be as fast as wide receivers, but they generally are in position to make calls and to get out of the way of plays.   

 

That's all on the good side. 

 

I officiated soccer for a few years, even though I'd never played, and you're correct that knowledge of the game is critical.  I was often out of position, even with 12 year-olds, I didn't see things very well, and I missed a lot of calls.   I didn't understand, at least not well, what was going on - the players saw th,e game better than I did.   

 

However, I think that having-played-the-game thing becomes less important the longer you officiate.   If you watch the NBA, those officials are not former NBA players, nor even college players.   But they've officiated games for years and years, they've worked their way up from town leagues to high school to AAU to D-III to D-I to the pros.   When they get to the NBA and are there for a few years, they do remarkably well watching and controlling the game.   It's impossible to get those calls right all the time, but they really do pretty well.  I think the NFL officials are the same.   In a game where they can't call everything, and a game where it's impossible to see everything, they do pretty well.   I'm amazed, for example, how good they are at spotting the ball.   Most of the time when I think they got it wrong, replay shows they got it right.  

 

I don't think the problem is the quality of the officials.   I think the problem is that the NFL refuses to use technology to increase the percentage of calls made correctly.   Tennis has more or less instantaneous in-or-out replays.  Baseball has (but doesn't use) very accurate ball-strike calling mechanisms.   Football is tougher, but please - there's no reason why they don't have a chip in the ball so that on replay they can locate the ball precisely in a pile of players at the goal line, or so they can tell whether the ball passed inside or outside the pylon.   

 

And to Beast's point, there's no reason they can't use replay quickly and efficiently to correct clearly bad calls on 15-yard penalties.  They don't have to review missed calls - maybe there was a facemask an official missed and it shows up on replay.  Okay, let it go.  But when they call the facemask penalty, while it's being assessed and marked off, a replay official would have time to look at it and be sure it actually happened.   Same thing for offensive holding and roughing the passer.  The calls are right or at least arguable 90+% of the time; why can't they fix the ones that were obviously wrong?

I know the conspiracy theories are cringe worthy but the amount of stupid, correctable ***** that I've seen over the years has jaded me.

 

The are parties within the NFL who absolutely try to rig the games and they'll fight to keep as much grey area in the rules and procedures as possible. Fool-proof measures (like tracking chips at each end of the ball) would provide way too much clarity. With the NFL embracing the gambling culture, this won't change anytime soon.

 

[TBBills]

Not suspended but fined...

[GETTOTHE50]

They just need to let the players play post snap. 
 

call all the pre snap penalties and after the whistle penalties you want, but let the players determine what happens during the play. The holding and PI stuff is so subjective and one sided some times that it kills game. 

[LeGOATski]

4 minutes ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

They just need to let the players play post snap. 
 

call all the pre snap penalties and after the whistle penalties you want, but let the players determine what happens during the play. The holding and PI stuff is so subjective and one sided some times that it kills game. 

Yep. The way the AAF and XFL did it was really good. As well as the XFL's replay system. 

 

It's so easy to implement that the fact the NFL can't do it raises huge red flags for me.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

2 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Have the TV audience vote "yes " or "no" on overturning the penalty via text message; with the NFL charging $1 each during the 40second play clock. Must have 75% consensus to pass.

 

NFL makes money. Prime time games ensure more neutral audience. Only obvious botched calls are reversed.

Give 100 randomly selected fans (50 team A fans, 50 team B fans) the same signal devices that were used by Cliff Claven's therapist.  Wire the officials with Cliff's zapper.  Ethical?  No.  Practical?  No.

Just damned entertaining.

[LeGOATski]

When all is said and done, any team can still become great and stay great. The parity in the NFL is still a positive aspect of the league. In the grand scheme of things, the ref issues are minor.

[Nextmanup]

5 hours ago, Jobot said:

There should be some sort of performance review, no doubt. Apparently these guys average $200k per game.

There is a detailed performance review, and only the crews that perform well get playoff games.

 

 

[dpberr]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Im 99.9% sure thats always been the case???

I'm not sure if that's a real rule or not. 

 

From MPV, it'd include all forms of gambling, down to being physically on the premises of a casino. A ref that gets deep in the hole from table games is a juicy target.    

[quinnearlysghost88]

Performance reviews and moved out of the league after a certain time period of underperformance. 
 

I also think it’s absolutely bonkers that the nfl brags about putting their best crew in the super bowl. It’s basically admitting we don’t have consistency among our referee crews across the league and only a handful can be trusted in a situation with a large viewership. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Game is getting to fast and [layers too big to easily officiate game. 

 

I'd like to see an additional official on each sideline behind the benches on one of these lifts about 30 feet in the air like the camera man.  Would give him a better angle than many and maybe give in an instant replay screen to over rule calls on field

[TheFunPolice]

They usually make up for obviously terrible calls later on, unless tom Brady is playing. 

[section122]

4 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Refs are evaluated and graded every week by the NFL head office.  Crews with the best scores go on to get the biggest games. Crews with poor performance do not see the post season or Super Bowl. 

 

This is 100% correct.

 

I had a change of heart regarding officiating when I started officiating.  Kind of like everyone should work retail or food service to see how difficult that job can be at times and to respect the job.

 

The NFL rule book is 241 pages long.  That is a huge document.  Even if you know 99% of it you potentially could blow a call and not realize it.

 

There are 22 players and 7 officials on the field.  That means each official has on average just under 3 players to watch per play.  Add in sideline personnel, coaches, and the rest of the team.  There are over 100 people.

 

The speed of the game.  In the stands you get a better appreciation imo than you do on tv for just how fast the game is.  Most passing plays have the ball gone in under 3 seconds.  Players can be spread out over 30 yards in that time and moving at an incredible rate of speed.  It is very hard to see fine detail at that speed. 

 

Then there is the environment which can be so loud at times it is hard to think.

 

Add it all up:  You need to know every single rule down to the incredible minutia that the Belicheck's of the world require because they attempt to skirt the rules constantly (Ravens playoff game a couple years ago), you need to use your 2 eyes to keep track of more than 2 players, moving at a lightning pace, under conditions that are less than ideal to concentrate.  

 

Oh yeah there is the bonus of slo motion replay from multiple angles that you don't get the benefit of when you have to make the call.

 

Added bonus people are emotionally invested in the outcome and therefore don't judge your ability, skill, and performance objectively they do it subjectively.

 

tl;dr it is an incredibly difficult job to do and expecting perfection is to forget that it is performed by human beings.  I don't disagree that it sucks when they get it wrong or blow a call but they are only human.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, section122 said:

 

This is 100% correct.

 

I had a change of heart regarding officiating when I started officiating.  Kind of like everyone should work retail or food service to see how difficult that job can be at times and to respect the job.

 

The NFL rule book is 241 pages long.  That is a huge document.  Even if you know 99% of it you potentially could blow a call and not realize it.

 

There are 22 players and 7 officials on the field.  That means each official has on average just under 3 players to watch per play.  Add in sideline personnel, coaches, and the rest of the team.  There are over 100 people.

 

The speed of the game.  In the stands you get a better appreciation imo than you do on tv for just how fast the game is.  Most passing plays have the ball gone in under 3 seconds.  Players can be spread out over 30 yards in that time and moving at an incredible rate of speed.  It is very hard to see fine detail at that speed. 

 

Then there is the environment which can be so loud at times it is hard to think.

 

Add it all up:  You need to know every single rule down to the incredible minutia that the Belicheck's of the world require because they attempt to skirt the rules constantly (Ravens playoff game a couple years ago), you need to use your 2 eyes to keep track of more than 2 players, moving at a lightning pace, under conditions that are less than ideal to concentrate.  

 

Oh yeah there is the bonus of slo motion replay from multiple angles that you don't get the benefit of when you have to make the call.

 

Added bonus people are emotionally invested in the outcome and therefore don't judge your ability, skill, and performance objectively they do it subjectively.

 

tl;dr it is an incredibly difficult job to do and expecting perfection is to forget that it is performed by human beings.  I don't disagree that it sucks when they get it wrong or blow a call but they are only human.

 

Great post!

 

This is why I try not to get too bent out of shape about it, as long as the egregious roughing the passer is followed during that same drive with a timely holding call on 2nd or 3rd down, which could be called almost any play anyway. 

[Buddo]

I've made this comment before, but they really need to simplify the rulebook. Even to the extent of getting someone to re-write it in plain English, that everyone can understand.

 

I also don't think that there should be calls that cannot be challenged. Teams only get a couple of challenges each anyway, so it shouldn't make any difference in that respect.

 

While the NFL does appear to creeping gradually to full time zebras, in a multi billion industry, it seems ridiculous, that outcomes can be affected by amateurs, when the guys playing, coaching etc. , are all professionals.

[TheFunPolice]

One thing that's interesting is that it seems like the playoff games have fewer penalties. 

 

That could mean better teams=fewer penalties, but I think it also means better, more experienced refs= fewer penalties. 

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

This is 100% correct.

 

I had a change of heart regarding officiating when I started officiating.  Kind of like everyone should work retail or food service to see how difficult that job can be at times and to respect the job.

 

The NFL rule book is 241 pages long.  That is a huge document.  Even if you know 99% of it you potentially could blow a call and not realize it.

 

There are 22 players and 7 officials on the field.  That means each official has on average just under 3 players to watch per play.  Add in sideline personnel, coaches, and the rest of the team.  There are over 100 people.

 

The speed of the game.  In the stands you get a better appreciation imo than you do on tv for just how fast the game is.  Most passing plays have the ball gone in under 3 seconds.  Players can be spread out over 30 yards in that time and moving at an incredible rate of speed.  It is very hard to see fine detail at that speed. 

 

Then there is the environment which can be so loud at times it is hard to think.

 

Add it all up:  You need to know every single rule down to the incredible minutia that the Belicheck's of the world require because they attempt to skirt the rules constantly (Ravens playoff game a couple years ago), you need to use your 2 eyes to keep track of more than 2 players, moving at a lightning pace, under conditions that are less than ideal to concentrate.  

 

Oh yeah there is the bonus of slo motion replay from multiple angles that you don't get the benefit of when you have to make the call.

 

Added bonus people are emotionally invested in the outcome and therefore don't judge your ability, skill, and performance objectively they do it subjectively.

 

tl;dr it is an incredibly difficult job to do and expecting perfection is to forget that it is performed by human beings.  I don't disagree that it sucks when they get it wrong or blow a call but they are only human.

All true but misses the point, which is not about the depths of the rule book or the fact that everyone makes mistskes.  It's about easy ways, which exist, to correct obvious mistakes that unfairly penalize teams, like phantom roughing calls and the blown pass interfernce call in the playoffs a few years ago.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

One thing that's interesting is that it seems like the playoff games have fewer penalties. 

 

That could mean better teams=fewer penalties, but I think it also means better, more experienced refs= fewer penalties. 

 

They also let people get away with stuff a lot more in the playoffs.

 

The unsportsmanlike conduct penalties bother me the most this year tbh.  15 yards?  1st team unsportsmanlike call?  warning.  2nd? Even if its a different player - ejection or 15 yards.  And be a bit more consistent on what is unsportsmanlike... standing over another player isnt unsportsmanlike to me.  Even spinning a ball.  Its the getting in someones face stuff that ends up causing fights.

[TheFunPolice]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

They also let people get away with stuff a lot more in the playoffs.

 

The unsportsmanlike conduct penalties bother me the most this year tbh.  15 yards?  1st team unsportsmanlike call?  warning.  2nd? Even if its a different player - ejection or 15 yards.  And be a bit more consistent on what is unsportsmanlike... standing over another player isnt unsportsmanlike to me.  Even spinning a ball.  Its the getting in someones face stuff that ends up causing fights.

 

The fewer the flags, the better the game. 

 

Watching that Cleveland Arizona game was nuts... Flags every other play. It's too much.

 

Call the obvious stuff and let the players play football. when the refs become a story it's bad for everyone. 

[Buffalo Junction]

Eventually a notable player or coach will eat the fine and say something along the line of “IDK. Maybe the refs bet on the game.” That’ll cause a total ***** show which might result in a sky judge. Until then…. It is what it is. 

[Dan]

47 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

This is 100% correct.

 

I had a change of heart regarding officiating when I started officiating.  Kind of like everyone should work retail or food service to see how difficult that job can be at times and to respect the job.

 

The NFL rule book is 241 pages long.  That is a huge document.  Even if you know 99% of it you potentially could blow a call and not realize it.

 

There are 22 players and 7 officials on the field.  That means each official has on average just under 3 players to watch per play.  Add in sideline personnel, coaches, and the rest of the team.  There are over 100 people.

 

The speed of the game.  In the stands you get a better appreciation imo than you do on tv for just how fast the game is.  Most passing plays have the ball gone in under 3 seconds.  Players can be spread out over 30 yards in that time and moving at an incredible rate of speed.  It is very hard to see fine detail at that speed. 

 

Then there is the environment which can be so loud at times it is hard to think.

 

Add it all up:  You need to know every single rule down to the incredible minutia that the Belicheck's of the world require because they attempt to skirt the rules constantly (Ravens playoff game a couple years ago), you need to use your 2 eyes to keep track of more than 2 players, moving at a lightning pace, under conditions that are less than ideal to concentrate.  

 

Oh yeah there is the bonus of slo motion replay from multiple angles that you don't get the benefit of when you have to make the call.

 

Added bonus people are emotionally invested in the outcome and therefore don't judge your ability, skill, and performance objectively they do it subjectively.

 

tl;dr it is an incredibly difficult job to do and expecting perfection is to forget that it is performed by human beings.  I don't disagree that it sucks when they get it wrong or blow a call but they are only human.

Excellent post and all very true.  But, IMO, this all just means the league needs to simplify the rules/penalties, not add to them every year...especially with more subjective calls.  
 

There’s lots of ways they could improve the accuracy and efficiency of refereeing a game. More refs,  Simpler rules, Microchips in the ball, are just but a few examples.  The problem is the league is reluctant to do anything of substance other than further complicate things and send out memos... after a crew screws up badly.  
 

There’s literally Billions of dollars at stake each week.  And they can’t do anything to make it more fair?   Or they don’t want to?  I think that’s where most people are.. they’re fine with penalties..even bad ones. But make it fair.  And far too often the calls seem to drive a specific narrative... either for betting or for ratings.