Bojo doing Bojo things

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Mango said:

I find this really frustrating for different reasons.

 

Bojo>Haack and it doesn’t seem close. Why can’t Bojo figure this out…or anybody else? I hate that we have sign a lesser punter because of holding for the place holder. Makes me really angry at Bojo and the coaching staff. Like this had to be either teachable and/or replaceable with anybody else on the roster. 

 

You realize that Bojo has a whole 1.3 more ave yards than Haack so far this season?  He has one more punt than Haack, one more punt inside the 20, and 2 more that went OOB.  Haack's longest punt is 60 yds; Bojo's longest punt was 63.

 

I don't have a good source for detailed punting statistics.  Whence comes this angst and frustration over Bojo?

 

He didn't want to be here.  He wanted to be on the West Coast.  He wanted more money based on leading the league in average punts last season, but we all know he would boom one then shank one and for us last season, he had a lot of punts into the EZ.  So we looked elsewhere.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You realize that Bojo has a whole 1.3 more ave yards than Haack so far this season?  He has one more punt than Haack, one more punt inside the 20, and 2 more that went OOB.  Haack's longest punt is 60 yds; Bojo's longest punt was 63.

 

I don't have a good source for detailed punting statistics.  Whence comes this angst and frustration over Bojo?

 

He didn't want to be here.  He wanted to be on the West Coast.  He wanted more money based on leading the league in average punts last season, but we all know he would boom one then shank one and for us last season, he had a lot of punts into the EZ.  So we looked elsewhere.

Yeah Hacck has been just fine. Only thing I was concerned about was it seemed he was a little slow getting the kicks away (the 1st game in particular with 1 getting blocked). But every game or punt since then he doesn't seem slow anymore. Gets em away about like any other Punter far as I can tell. I will say though that it's been a noticeable difference (for me anyway) with his kicks compared to 1st game. 

[benderbender]

Honest question I always meant to ask: I read his nickname as “Bo Joe,” but the j in Bojorquez is pronounced like an h. So are we all referring to him as “Boho” or “BoJoe?”

[letsgoteam]

I'm just going to take this time to pile on here. I'm not this fan normally, but I really dislike Bojo, not on a personal level, but as a player. His crappy holds always bothered more then they should have. First and only player I've yelled at the tv to cut him mid game. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

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Edited October 17, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013
Couldn't see Dean Wormer's face.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

"Number one, sell the teams on the wisdom of the P being the holder.  Number two, sell the teams on the intangibles of a left footed punter.  Number three, sit back an watch my evil geniusness take hold.  Where's my snacks?!"

[Mango]

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You realize that Bojo has a whole 1.3 more ave yards than Haack so far this season?  He has one more punt than Haack, one more punt inside the 20, and 2 more that went OOB.  Haack's longest punt is 60 yds; Bojo's longest punt was 63.

 

I don't have a good source for detailed punting statistics.  Whence comes this angst and frustration over Bojo?

 

He didn't want to be here.  He wanted to be on the West Coast.  He wanted more money based on leading the league in average punts last season, but we all know he would boom one then shank one and for us last season, he had a lot of punts into the EZ.  So we looked elsewhere.

 

I’m frustrated in a general sense that Bojo can’t figure out a way to hold kicks. That seems like that should be a very teachable skill among all NFL players. It’s also frustrating that even if Bojo struggles with it the Bills sacrificed their punter partially because of it. And the Packers are no sacrificing their kicking. It is odd.

 

Whence the angst? There’s no angst but most wanted Bojo to stay. So it’s not a wild take. Although your “he didn’t want to be here” and “wanted to be out West” is the first I am hearing if either. He wanted more money than the Bills thought he was worth. As far as I know or have heard that is all that transpired.

 

Its odd you would mention this years punt average and also mention Bojo lead the league last year. You also omitted the blocked punt Haack has this year. A lot of things cost us the Steelers game. But a blocked punt for 7 points in a 7 point game has to be among the top. 

Haack has been not good, Bills fans hold their collective breaths every time he kicks. He doesn’t have a great leg, takes too long to get the ball out, and is partially responsible for losing the Steelers game.  
 

So yes, I would rather have Bojo, and don’t understand why neither Love nor Trubisky can hold for FG. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

So yes, I would rather have Bojo, and don’t understand why neither Love nor Trubisky can hold for FG. 

Love Love holding? 🤔

[Rochesterfan]

5 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Yeah Hacck has been just fine. Only thing I was concerned about was it seemed he was a little slow getting the kicks away (the 1st game in particular with 1 getting blocked). But every game or punt since then he doesn't seem slow anymore. Gets em away about like any other Punter far as I can tell. I will say though that it's been a noticeable difference (for me anyway) with his kicks compared to 1st game. 

 

The one block was a failure by the line - not Haack.  They practiced the formation and the front still got lost and let a guy through unblocked.

 

That would have been a block against almost every punter - not just Haack.

 

Overall - Punting there is almost no difference between BoJo and Haack and Haack is a significantly better holder and was cheaper.

 

 

[BearNorth]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 Haack is a significantly better holder and was cheaper.

 

Haack is quite a bit more expensive than Bojo.  Bojo 1.02MM, Haack 1.575MM cap hit.

[fergie's ire]

11 hours ago, Malazan said:

 

 

I asked about this back a little and a poster pointed me to Parcells explaining that it takes too much time to practice that the Backup QB does have with his own practice/meeting to prepare as the back and often running the scout team. So it seems that coaches have determined that's more important than the potential of a trick play since holding requires so much practice time. 

Then you can also have the situation where the starter goes down and then you have the starting QB as your holder.  Either you have to take precious snaps away from your starter or from practicing holding.  While quarterbacking is most important, if holding isn't practiced enough the guy could botch a hold and cost his team a playoff game.  You said it was Parcells who said this, right?  And have quarterbacks done this since Romo?  I think that might have been the end right there.

[Mango]

11 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The one block was a failure by the line - not Haack.  They practiced the formation and the front still got lost and let a guy through unblocked.

 

That would have been a block against almost every punter - not just Haack.

 

Overall - Punting there is almost no difference between BoJo and Haack and Haack is a significantly better holder and was cheaper.

 

 

Didnt Tasker mention that he thought Haack was about 5 yards to shallow on the blocked punt?

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Haack is quite a bit more expensive than Bojo.  Bojo 1.02MM, Haack 1.575MM cap hit.

 

That is because when he left no one would sign BoJo.  BoJo wasn’t signing in Buffalo for 1.02 million - that is what he was forced to take when after ever punting position was filled he was still without a partner.

 

Then he signed as a #3 punter in LA where his Girlfriend wanted to be on the west coast.  If GB had not lost their punter - he would have been completely out of a job.

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

19 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The one block was a failure by the line - not Haack.  They practiced the formation and the front still got lost and let a guy through unblocked.

 

That would have been a block against almost every punter - not just Haack.

 

Overall - Punting there is almost no difference between BoJo and Haack and Haack is a significantly better holder and was cheaper.

 

 

While true the line blocking was a factor, I stand by my statement he looked slow getting the kicks away which can also lead to a blocked punt. I'm not the only one that said this, recall other posters noticed he looked slow getting kick away also. 

 

But as I said earlier, he doesn't look slow anymore. Since then he gets kick away about like any other punter.

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

Didnt Tasker mention that he thought Haack was about 5 yards to shallow on the blocked punt?

 

Tasker said that and then subsequent research showed that is the depth most kickers give when they are kicking inside the 20 for the last several years.  They narrow the split even more when they hit the end zone.

 

It was not a Haack or Buffalo thing, but a new special teams trend.

 

It makes it even more important that the inside guys block inside out and don’t let someone go unblocked.

 

 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Tasker said that and then subsequent research showed that is the depth most kickers give when they are kicking inside the 20 for the last several years.  They narrow the split even more when they hit the end zone.

 

It was not a Haack or Buffalo thing, but a new special teams trend.

 

It makes it even more important that the inside guys block inside out and don’t let someone go unblocked.

 

 

 

Im not necessarily questioning you, but do you have a link to the “subsequent research”

[Rochesterfan]

9 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Im not necessarily questioning you, but do you have a link to the “subsequent research”

 

It was in the original thread - I believe Hap was looking at it.

[BillsFan4]

I posted this over in the around the NFL thread the day after the game but figured I’d post it here again.

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/11/bills-chiefs-afc-nfl-week-5-fmia-peter-king/

 

In Peter King’s football morning in America column that comes out every Monday he mentioned this:

 

Quote

It always interests me, the mindset and approach of field-goal kickers. There was a gusting wind on a warm afternoon in Cincinnati, the wind blowing in different directions up to 20 mph. The 51-yard miss got caught in a hard right to left wind, he thought. [B]Crosby’s not sure, but he thinks one or more of the kicks may not have had the laces facing straight ahead; when they’re to either side, the ball can be a knuckleball[/B]He’ll see the tape today and figure if the snap-hold part of the equation needs adjusting. 

Crosby mentioned that he didn’t think the laces were facing the right way.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I’m frustrated in a general sense that Bojo can’t figure out a way to hold kicks. That seems like that should be a very teachable skill among all NFL players. It’s also frustrating that even if Bojo struggles with it the Bills sacrificed their punter partially because of it. And the Packers are no sacrificing their kicking. It is odd.

 

Perhaps he's perfect in practice, but struggles with focus in games.  Remember the bizarre "unlateral fake fieldgoal"?

 

Or perhaps he just doesn't put in the work to master the skill.  Teacher can't teach if the student won't practice.  My impression was that Bojo knew he had a boom-tastic leg as a punter and became a bit of a "legend in his own mind". 

 

Actually, with only 32 punter jobs in the NFL, refusing a contract is symptomatic of this.

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Whence the angst? There’s no angst but most wanted Bojo to stay. So it’s not a wild take. Although your “he didn’t want to be here” and “wanted to be out West” is the first I am hearing if either.

 

I had a quick try to find it and failed (not the first time I can't find something I know was there) It was discussed in the various RFA/FA threads about keep/let walk last Feb/Mar.

 

Supposedly Bojo had a smokin' hot "keeper" girlfriend who wanted to be on the West coast, and did not want him locked up >1 yr in B'lo (hence his refusal to consider a longer deal).

 

I hope she's enjoying Green Bay.

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Its odd you would mention this years punt average and also mention Bojo lead the league last year. You also omitted the blocked punt Haack has this year. A lot of things cost us the Steelers game. But a blocked punt for 7 points in a 7 point game has to be among the top. 

 

A blocked punt most certainly is.  Do we mention Bojo's blocked punts in 2018 and 2019 then?  He and Haack now have the overall same number.

 

I also didn't mention Bojo's short shanks that kept his average low despite all the 60 yd boomers, or that unilateral fake fieldgoal. 

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Haack has been not good, Bills fans hold their collective breaths every time he kicks. He doesn’t have a great leg, takes too long to get the ball out, and is partially responsible for losing the Steelers game. 

 

I don't hold my breath.  Haack had a blocked punt in 2018 and another this year that was a clear missed blocking assignment.  Could he have got the ball out faster sure but it's not all on him.  He doesn't have a great leg, but he's got an average punt distance exactly 1.3 yds less than the guy you're lamenting, despite said guy's boomer leg.  What's that tell you?

 

Sounds like Bojo has become a bit of a legend in your mind as well?

 

1 hour ago, BearNorth said:

Haack is quite a bit more expensive than Bojo.  Bojo 1.02MM, Haack 1.575MM cap hit.

 

He's more expensive than Bojo eventually signed for with the Rams after sitting on the sofa most of FA, but he's not more expensive than giving Bojo a 2nd round tender or the 1 yr contract he supposedly wanted.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

Didnt Tasker mention that he thought Haack was about 5 yards to shallow on the blocked punt?

 

He mentioned that he was too shallow.  He was at about 13 yds, IIRC.

 

I can't find statistics, but I've been looking at punters carefully since then, and my eyes in the same game (so not adjusting for wind or punter preference) the punters are closer to the LOS when they're punting from inside their own 20.  

 

On the other hand, I've also been watching Haack since then and he tends to stand 13 yds back from the LOS consistently.