2022 Cap Space each team

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott hated being asked about his last social media rant last week. Is he affecting chemistry? No I don't think so, but is he still a distraction at times? Yes. And McDermott hates distractions. Plus his production has dipped a bit and he is 33 by the time next year starts. His politics has nothing to do with it. Distraction, declining production, age. That is the unholy trinity of factors.

Antonio Brown is 33 right now.  
 

Have you seen Beasley’s play decline?  I haven’t.  Production is different from Level of Play.   We are more multiple this year and thus, Cole and Diggs production has dipped… that’s a great thing.  
 

Cole is under contract for next year.  It’s not like we’re discussing extending him right now.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Antonio Brown is 33 right now.  
 

Have you seen Beasley’s play decline?  I haven’t.  Production is different from Level of Play.   We are more multiple this year and thus, Cole and Diggs production has dipped… that’s a great thing.  
 

Cole is under contract for next year.  It’s not like we’re discussing extending him right now.  

 

I do think there is a slight decline in his play, yes. Again this is similar to the argument about Klein for me. Every penny you spend on guys over 30 and on the downslope is a penny you don't spend on extending Edmunds and possibly Oliver - young ascending players. People need to understand that the salary cap is not a year by year deal. It is a rolling deal. Every penny you spend now is a penny you can't spend later. 

[Big Blitz]

I no longer look at cap space as vital to signing UFAs - 1 big fish to fill a need, put you over the top, sure.  

 

But if you draft and develop like we have the space is for our own.  You build thru the draft.  Even tho the Bucs seem like they brought in hired guns - the vital pieces are guys they drafted - Vea, White, the oline.  Evans.  Godwin.  

 

 

Already wondering what the Groot and Spencer Brown contracts could be!!   😉

Edited October 15, 2021 by Big Blitz

[eball]

17 hours ago, Johnnycage46 said:

Chargers could be a force for a while with that 74 M in cap next year and Herbert on rookie deal still.

 

Yup, they’ve got a 1-2 yr window before they have to pay the QB.

[Buddo]

I don't see Klein as a cap casualty at all tbh. One reason for that, is that after a somewhat shaky start, where our coaches weren't utilising him in the best ways, he has simply 'done his job', and effectively. I also no longer view him as just a backup, but more of a situational piece, especially against the run. I can't help but think that Beane and McDermott aren't unhappy with either his contributions, or his cap hit, and while I can envisage them trying to reduce it, I don't see it as being by that much, and probably by an extension, rather than cutting a useful contributor.

 

Going forward, the easiest uprade to the team, would be another quality CB to go opposite Tre. I think you can book it that we will probably be looking to draft one. Wallace has performed admirably, all things considered, but just lacks a little in the athleticism stakes, which makes him easier to be picked on, on occasion.

[78thealltimegreat]

I don’t even really worry about the salary cap anymore there are restructures and cuts every team can do so these numbers are just a talking point anymore 

[JGMcD2]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:03 PM, GunnerBill said:

Plus his production has dipped a bit and he is 33 by the time next year starts. His politics has nothing to do with it. Distraction, declining production, age. That is the unholy trinity of factors.

Is his production declining because he’s not capable of doing what he’s been doing his entire career or is it because Knox has emerged? We have to separate the two. 
 

It was talked about a lot that if Knox were to emerge targets would have to be taken away from Diggs, Beasley and the new WR2. There are only so many targets to go around each year and last year we were at that upper limit. I have the numbers somewhere because I had to explain it to a bunch of people. 
 

If his production is dipping because of his age then it’s an issue. If he’s still capable of doing what makes him great… his age and declining production in an offense that has numerous mouths to feed are not actual issues. The only reason you move on is if you can find a player to do what Beasley does, at the same level, for less money. 
 

That was the whole thing with Sanders this year… everyone was freaking out because he’s 34… but that only mattered if he was incapable of doing what makes him a productive player. All evidence pointed to him still being a capable and productive player. 
 

Right now it seems like the only issue with Beasley is the distraction portion. Although, McDermott’s comments and his teammates interactions with him show me that it’s primarily a media/fan driven narrative that’s wildly overblown. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

Is his production declining because he’s not capable of doing what he’s been doing his entire career or is it because Knox has emerged? We have to separate the two. 
 

 

No, you do not need to separate the two.

 

If a player isn't producing for you......regardless of why.......and if they are expensive and you need the cap space(they will).........those are reasons to trade or release a player.

 

Doesn't matter if that player is theoretically capable of still playing well........it's cost/benefit analysis.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/14/2021 at 11:18 PM, Big Blitz said:

Some good teams with money to burn I mean throw around.   

 

And some dumpster fires.  You really are watching the last of Adams and Rodgers in GB imo.

 

And the Saints....woof

 

 

 

 

Question: what is the difference between "cap space" and "effective cap space"?

[Big Blitz]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Question: what is the difference between "cap space" and "effective cap space"?

 

 

Something to do with potential bonuses, accounting for incoming rookie salaries?  

 

You may do your own math of guys coming off the books and think that means you have X amount of money but charts like this I guess take that and other potential contract adjustments into effect.....if that makes sense

[JGMcD2]

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No, you do not need to separate the two.

 

If a player isn't producing for you......regardless of why.......and if they are expensive and you need the cap space(they will).........those are reasons to trade or release a player.

 

Doesn't matter if that player is theoretically capable of still playing well........it's cost/benefit analysis.   

You’re right it’s a cost benefit analysis… but you need to drill into the issue. 
 

I’m not saying he can’t be cut… but it’s lazy analysis to say he’s getting old therefore he’s no longer productive. 
 

That’s why I said you need to separate the two. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Something to do with potential bonuses, accounting for incoming rookie salaries?  

 

You may do your own math of guys coming off the books and think that means you have X amount of money but charts like this I guess take that and other potential contract adjustments into effect.....if that makes sense

 

Well, I was hoping for more granularity on the difference 🤷‍♂️

[Big Blitz]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I was hoping for more granularity on the difference 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Found this:

 

 

Cap Space: The team's total Cap, minus the above two figures. It's worth noting that though the Cap is set at a certain number each year, teams are allowed to roll forward a certain amount of unspent cap from the previous year. So while there's one "Salary Cap" in the league, every team can spend a different amount based on what they spent in the previous year. Simplified for clarity: If a team spends 75% of the cap in one year, they'll get ~125% of it the next.

 

Effective Cap Space: "Represents the maximum cap space a team will have when it signs at least 51 players to its roster for that season." Basically, estimating what will be spent to get up to a full roster, and deducting that number from each team's "Cap Space" number.

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:50 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I do think there is a slight decline in his play, yes. Again this is similar to the argument about Klein for me. Every penny you spend on guys over 30 and on the downslope is a penny you don't spend on extending Edmunds and possibly Oliver - young ascending players. People need to understand that the salary cap is not a year by year deal. It is a rolling deal. Every penny you spend now is a penny you can't spend later. 

 

I don't expect Beasley will change teams this season but if the Bills are looking to make a move with him in-season........with the bye,  this coming week would be the most ideal time.

 

How about sending Beasley back home to Texas for Brandin Cooks?    

 

Cooks would seem like the more valuable commodity at the moment.........and his remaining base salary is less than Beasley's for this season so he's going to be a desirable trade prospect.........but Cooks has a high cap figure next year so Houston might not want to have him back or extend his deal.

 

After the Bills would have eaten Beasley's unamortized money he'd be a very cheap cap fit for Houston in 2022.........so Houston would get a 2 year player for a one year player in Cooks.   

 

Would keep both players out of other teams hands as well............I just have a feeling that some contender will trade for Cooks and if the Bills/Beas situation came to release he would end up with a contender as well.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Found this:

 

 

Cap Space: The team's total Cap, minus the above two figures. It's worth noting that though the Cap is set at a certain number each year, teams are allowed to roll forward a certain amount of unspent cap from the previous year. So while there's one "Salary Cap" in the league, every team can spend a different amount based on what they spent in the previous year. Simplified for clarity: If a team spends 75% of the cap in one year, they'll get ~125% of it the next.

 

Effective Cap Space: "Represents the maximum cap space a team will have when it signs at least 51 players to its roster for that season." Basically, estimating what will be spent to get up to a full roster, and deducting that number from each team's "Cap Space" number.

 

 

 

 

 

Gotcha, Thanks!

[No_Matter_What]

On 10/15/2021 at 12:54 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I suspect Beasley is gone after this year. He is one of the easier cuts on the roster IMO. AJ Klein is cut #1. I have Beasley as cut #2. Those two alone save you $11.3m. The way Sanders is playing it is possible they would rather extend him another year than keep Beas.

 

Agreed, Klein and Beasley are top candidates. Not that I think we want to get rid of them, but we will not have that many other options.

 

The way I see it right now we have 36 players under contract for 2022 and have only 20M cap space minus whatever T. Johnson's cap hit will be. Let's say its 6M so we only have 14M cap space.

 

Good thing is that all off the guys we have now and would possibly like to keep (like Boettger, Bates, McKenzie, Obada, Zimmer, Dodson, Neal or Jones) can probably be had either minimum or up to 2M, maybe except Mitch and Levi. But even if we sign all 17 required players for 800k - 2M it will cost us roughly 22-23M. So just to fill roster with cheap talent we miss 8-9M which means either some big restructure or cutting expensive vets. Top candidates are obviously Klein (5,2M savings), Beasley (6,1M) and maybe Feliciano (3,7M). Morse saves 7,5M which is a lot but also leaves 3,7M dead cap and I don't think we are cutting him. Star is also an option, but it seems unlikely now and he also has a lot of dead cap.

 

So it will be really interesting what we will do since its very unlikely that we will only sign really cheap players. But given our cap situation if we want to sign any mid-tier player for 7-8M cap hit we will need to do some cutting or cap maneuvering.

 

On 10/15/2021 at 1:51 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I think the Bills are relying on the cap properly rebounding. Spotrac are estimating about $218m in 2023 which (before Taron's new deal is taken into account) gives the Bills about $70m in space (albeit with only 22 players under contact). There is no Ed Oliver 5th year option factored into that and there is no Tremaine Edmunds extension factored into that.

And also no huge Knox extension factored into

 

It will be really interesting how we will deal with this if all young guys keep progressing. Keeping Edmunds, Oliver and Knox at the same time could be really tough then. Thank God that Ford didn't pan out  

[No_Matter_What]

Anybody has a clue how void years work?

 

I mean Sanders has 2022 as a void year with dead cap of 1,375,000. 

 

The way I understand it is that he is actually an UFA and can sign anywhere he wants, but Bills are left with dead cap since they wanted to lower cap hit in 2021.

 

But what happens if he actually resigns with Bills? Let's say 1 year contract for 5M with no signing bonus. Will his cap hit be only those 5M with no dead cap? I.e. will that new contract cause dead cap to disappear?

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Anybody has a clue how void years work?

 

I mean Sanders has 2022 as a void year with dead cap of 1,375,000. 

 

The way I understand it is that he is actually an UFA and can sign anywhere he wants, but Bills are left with dead cap since they wanted to lower cap hit in 2021.

 

But what happens if he actually resigns with Bills? Let's say 1 year contract for 5M with no signing bonus. Will his cap hit be only those 5M with no dead cap? I.e. will that new contract cause dead cap to disappear?

 

Your understanding is correct. As for how a new contract would work that is entirely a matter for negotiation. Normally you would encompass the voided hit in with the new money for cap purposes but there is no rule saying you have to. Whichever way that $1.375m has to be accounted for on the cap. Sanders has already been paid that money. So at some point the Bills have to account for it.

[No_Matter_What]

45 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Your understanding is correct. As for how a new contract would work that is entirely a matter for negotiation. Normally you would encompass the voided hit in with the new money for cap purposes but there is no rule saying you have to. Whichever way that $1.375m has to be accounted for on the cap. Sanders has already been paid that money. So at some point the Bills have to account for it.

Hmm thanks for answer but I am not sure if I understand the second part.

 

For the sake of simplicity, lets say he just takes 5M of new money. What is his 2022 cap hit then? 5M or 6,4M? Is there a way for him to get 5M of new money and for the Bills the cap to be 5M?

 

Or in other way - lets say we want to keep him but we don't want his cap to be more than 5M total. How such contract can look like? How much money he might actually get?

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Hmm thanks for answer but I am not sure if I understand the second part.

 

For the sake of simplicity, lets say he just takes 5M of new money. What is his 2022 cap hit then? 5M or 6,4M? Is there a way for him to get 5M of new money and for the Bills the cap to be 5M?

 

Or in other way - lets say we want to keep him but we don't want his cap to be more than 5M total. How such contract can look like? How much money he might actually get?

 

 

The $1.35m has already been paid. That was paid when he signed. So the Bills have to account for it somewhere. As it stands they account for it in the voided year (2022). 

 

If they want to re-sign Sanders and give him $5m new money then they still have to account for the $1.35m somewhere. Now there are ways of doing that. They could account for it all in one go in 2022 (in which case it would be the $6.35m cap hit), or they could add another voided year in 2023 and kick the can some more... ie. They give him $2.7m signing bonus amortised over year 1 (2022) and the new voided year 2 (2023). And the other $2.3m of his new deal is base salary. 

 

That way in 2022 they would be accounting:

New deal base salary: $2.3m

New deal amortised bonus: $1.35m

Old deal amortised bonus: $1.35m

Total on 2022 cap: $5m

 

In 2023 they would be accounting:

New deal amortised bonus: $1.35m

 

If what you are after is a way that they can get out of accounting for the already paid bonus of the current contract - there isn't one. 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by GunnerBill