What McBeane have done since 2017 nothing short of amazing.

[ColoradoBills]

7 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

With the coaching they have in place it feels like they can draft players who are freaks of nature.   Then they can mold them to great football players

 

Agree but the players have to be of a mindset to/or allow themselves to be molded.

[LeGOATski]

42 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

McVay and Peterson’s turn around did not require a roster turn over. Plus I’m not sure Pederson had much to do with the turn around. 

Yeah, I think I kind of distinguished that already. Pederson definitely did. Do you remember what Chip Kelly did to that team? Lol

 

Then Pederson/Roseman drafted Wentz, had a mediocre season, another good offseason, and then won the Super Bowl in year 2.

[billsfan89]

11 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s a complete 360 from the way the organization had been run post-Tom Donahoe.  This is where I think Ralph Wilson deserved and enormous amount of criticism as owner.  The men he put in charge of football operations is straight up offensive.  None of these four were real GM’s:

 

- Marv Levy

- Russ Brandon

- Buddy Nix

- Doug Whaley

 

Of those four, Whaley was the best by a large margin though I would argue his ceiling is director of pro personnel.  He has no clue how to build a team or lead an organization.

 

Nix never should have been a GM and was terrible, though he at least worked in the front office.  Marv Levy and Russ Brandon had NO business making any football decisions.  Another example of how Ralph tarnished this franchise

 

I hate to echo the "Ralph is cheap" sentiments because without Ralph the NFL would not be the same and the Bills would not be a team. Ralph was a pioneer for the AFL and held the team in Buffalo the rest of his life and helped oversee a lot of success in the late 80's through the late 90's. He deserves respect but by the mid 2000's I think the modern NFL had passed him by. 

 

He came from the old school 50's and 60's owners who ran teams like a business where dollars in and dollars out were the drivers of the organization. By the 1980's sports teams started to become wealthy people's vanity projects whose main return on investments came not from year to year profits but from selling the team. By the 2000's it really caught up to Ralph as he wasn't willing to invest in high 6 figure and 7 figure salaries for coaches, management and staff, invest in the practice facilities or pay out heavy bonuses to players to make the most out of the cap. Even OJ (whose word I take with a massive grain of salt) had said Ralph told him he wasn't going to spend big money on the team's talent. 

 

From 2005-2014 the salary cap was not an issue in Buffalo. I never recalled a year when the team ever was really up against the cap. Even in years where they got within 20 million of the cap (which is hardly up against it) they had plenty of fat and ways to add more space. But they would never shift over bonuses or spend the remaining space. So that puts the team at a competitive disadvantage.

 

Then you have the disadvantage of low paid staffs and bad facilities (relative to the rest of the league) and bad general decision making by hiring guys like Marv and Jauron to run the team. Any organization facing all of those issues is going to struggle. The Bills needed modern NFL ownership to compete in the modern NFL. The Pegula's to their credit have provided that since they took over. As bad as some of the larger decisions in the Rex era were they still spent big on coaches, to the cap and were beginning to invest in the infrastructure of the team. 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

I hate to echo the "Ralph is cheap" sentiments because without Ralph the NFL would not be the same and the Bills would not be a team. Ralph was a pioneer for the AFL and held the team in Buffalo the rest of his life and helped oversee a lot of success in the late 80's through the late 90's. He deserves respect but by the mid 2000's I think the modern NFL had passed him by. 

 

He came from the old school 50's and 60's owners who ran teams like a business where dollars in and dollars out were the drivers of the organization. By the 1980's sports teams started to become wealthy people's vanity projects whose main return on investments came not from year to year profits but from selling the team. By the 2000's it really caught up to Ralph as he wasn't willing to invest in high 6 figure and 7 figure salaries for coaches, management and staff, invest in the practice facilities or pay out heavy bonuses to players to make the most out of the cap. Even OJ (whose word I take with a massive grain of salt) had said Ralph told him he wasn't going to spend big money on the team's talent. 

 

From 2005-2014 the salary cap was not an issue in Buffalo. I never recalled a year when the team ever was really up against the cap. Even in years where they got within 20 million of the cap (which is hardly up against it) they had plenty of fat and ways to add more space. But they would never shift over bonuses or spend the remaining space. So that puts the team at a competitive disadvantage.

 

Then you have the disadvantage of low paid staffs and bad facilities (relative to the rest of the league) and bad general decision making by hiring guys like Marv and Jauron to run the team. Any organization facing all of those issues is going to struggle. The Bills needed modern NFL ownership to compete in the modern NFL. The Pegula's to their credit have provided that since they took over. As bad as some of the larger decisions in the Rex era were they still spent big on coaches, to the cap and were beginning to invest in the infrastructure of the team. 

Yes can be appreciative of Ralph’s contribution to the organization while acknowledging that as an owner he destroyed the organization after Tom Donahoe left.

 

In my opinion, the issue was not just about money with Ralph…it was more about power and control.  After Donahoe Ralph refused to hire anyone he didn’t personally know.  That how we ended up with Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, and Buddy Nix in leadership positions.  It seems that Ralph also wanted to be involved in decision-making, which is understandable to an extent, but at some point you have to let your leaders lead.  
 

Not only would Ralph not pay a big contract for a coach/GM, he never would have given them the autonomy that they crave 

 

 

[billsfan89]

13 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Yes can be appreciative of Ralph’s contribution to the organization while acknowledging that as an owner he destroyed the organization after Tom Donahoe left.

 

In my opinion, the issue was not just about money with Ralph…it was more about power and control.  After Donahoe Ralph refused to hire anyone he didn’t personally know.  That how we ended up with Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, and Buddy Nix in leadership positions.  It seems that Ralph also wanted to be involved in decision-making, which is understandable to an extent, but at some point you have to let your leaders lead.  
 

Not only would Ralph not pay a big contract for a coach/GM, he never would have given them the autonomy that they crave 

 

 

 

That's another aspect I forgot about. Money was an issue but meddling was another factor. I really think that if you conducted a TBD group think tank of how the team should be run from 2005 to 2014 it would have gone better than it did, which is more so a statement on how bad things were run as opposed to saying anything positive about our ability to make decisions for an NFL team. The fans would have at least drafted Ngata and Mangold in 2006.

Edited October 14, 2021 by billsfan89

[AuntieEm]

22 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

Yes can be appreciative of Ralph’s contribution to the organization while acknowledging that as an owner he destroyed the organization after Tom Donahoe left.

 

In my opinion, the issue was not just about money with Ralph…it was more about power and control.  After Donahoe Ralph refused to hire anyone he didn’t personally know.  That how we ended up with Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, and Buddy Nix in leadership positions.  It seems that Ralph also wanted to be involved in decision-making, which is understandable to an extent, but at some point you have to let your leaders lead.  
 

Not only would Ralph not pay a big contract for a coach/GM, he never would have given them the autonomy that they crave 

 

 

     

     People seem to forget that Ralph was born in 1918 so he was 11 years old when the Great Depression hit.  He grew up in conditions similar or worse than the players who today came from poverty or some other disadvantage. 

 

   So to Ralph he loved sports and Football but it was never considered to be more than entertainment and friendly competition.  Wasn't gonna solve world problems.

 

  The first SB Bills played in, the country was just in the midst of Desert Storm.  You  think a game was more important to a Ww2 vet then a new war that we were fighting with lives on the line. 

 

  Ralph had different priorities of where he preferred to spend his money.  Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with those priorities. I think WNY and Detroit both benefitted greatly by his priorities. 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by AuntieEm

[Batman1876]

59 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, I think I kind of distinguished that already. Pederson definitely did. Do you remember what Chip Kelly did to that team? Lol

 

Then Pederson/Roseman drafted Wentz, had a mediocre season, another good offseason, and then won the Super Bowl in year 2.

Pederson had little control of the team. That’s why he was out the door so quickly. Chip had a good team (10-6 twice then 7-9) Roseman saw he was ruining it so ran him out and took full control. 

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Batman1876 said:

Pederson had little control of the team. That’s why he was out the door so quickly. Chip had a good team (10-6 twice then 7-9) Roseman saw he was ruining it so ran him out and took full control. 

Sounds good 🤷🏻‍♂️... This seems pretty irrelevant. Doesn't change any point I was making.

[Motor26]

3 hours ago, wppete said:

Clearly his best move was trading up to draft Josh Allen… Getting rid of Sammy Watkins and Marcelll Darrius were his best trades getting rid of players…. Biggest mistake was trading a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin.

Eh, they needed a receiver, can’t win them all. Too bad it had to be the Cleveland pick instead of the Philly one.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Motor26

[Batman1876]

12 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Sounds good 🤷🏻‍♂️... This seems pretty irrelevant. Doesn't change any point I was making.

My bad, I thought your point was Pederson turned the organization around quickly. 

[Batman1876]

30 minutes ago, Motor26 said:

Eh, they needed a receiver, can’t win them all. Too bad it had to be the Cleveland pick instead of the Philly one.

I think that though his impact was.. minimal it may have helped win a single game. No KB no Playoffs?!?

[Success]

I still remember the exact spot I was when I heard Darby and Watkins were traded.  At the time, those were 2 of our best players, and I was both shocked and disheartened.  I didn't know what they were doing.

 

Turns out, we have a visionary who knows exactly what he's doing. I will never doubt or question Beane again.  I honestly think he's the best GM in the league. I lean homer in most of my judgments, but think that one is sound.

 

[AuntieEm]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

As much credit as McBeane should get I also think Pegula as an owner for the Bills has facilitated the complete turnaround of not only the on field product but the organization. 
 

Pegula has not been afraid to spend to the cap and shell out the bonus money needed to get the most out of the teams cap space even in the Rex era they had a huge 2015 spending spree. 
 

The organization also looked to have not gone cheap on coaching staffs and off field infrastructure such as training staffs. They currently have an 18 million dollar practice facility that opened in 2019.

 

Pegula also bought into McD an unproven coach and handed him and his chosen GM the keys to a longer term  3 year rebuilding plan. 
 

Ownership has been a huge component of the teams 

    

     Ownership got it right fairly quickly and they didn't hesitate to cut loose from Wrecks and even paying him the remainder of his unearned contract.

 

   I just wonder who they had advising them on the list of potential HC's.  Does anyone remember the list of who they interviewed?

 

 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

One thing that sometimes gets missed is how far both Beane and McDermott have come themselves.  They were young and had

a lot of things to learn too.  They have made some fairly big mistakes but they always seem to never repeat them.

 

I don't think either of them have reached their ceilings yet.

+1

1 hour ago, Success said:

I still remember the exact spot I was when I heard Darby and Watkins were traded.  At the time, those were 2 of our best players, and I was both shocked and disheartened.  I didn't know what they were doing.

 

Turns out, we have a visionary who knows exactly what he's doing. I will never doubt or question Beane again.  I honestly think he's the best GM in the league. I lean homer in most of my judgments, but think that one is sound.

 

I think Film showed that these people consistently took off plays, especially when the team was struggling.  That was a big no no for their culture.

[Sweats]

They've basically negated 20 years of inept, futile and disgusting Buffalo football.....i'm all for it, man.

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, AuntieEm said:

     

     People seem to forget that Ralph was born in 1918 so he was 11 years old when the Great Depression hit.  He grew up in conditions similar or worse than the players who today came from poverty or some other disadvantage. 

 

   So to Ralph he loved sports and Football but it was never considered to be more than entertainment and friendly competition.  Wasn't gonna solve world problems.

 

  The first SB Bills played in, the country was just in the midst of Desert Storm.  You  think a game was more important to a Ww2 vet then a new war that we were fighting with lives on the line. 

 

  Ralph had different priorities of where he preferred to spend his money.  Doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with those priorities. I think WNY and Detroit both benefitted greatly by his priorities. 

 

 

I don’t completely agree.  Make no mistake about it - The Bills were more than “entertainment and friendly competition” for Ralph.  Ralph and his colleagues cared very much about the bottom line when it came to the Bills which is why he was so frugal.  He wanted to maximize as much of a profit as possible.  
 

Everything you said about Ralph could be true but that doesn’t change the fact that during the last decade of his ownership of the team he really tarnished the franchise badly with his decisions and caused a lot of disappointment for fans who invested their time and money in his “entertainment and friendly competition”

36 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

    

     Ownership got it right fairly quickly and they didn't hesitate to cut loose from Wrecks and even paying him the remainder of his unearned contract.

 

   I just wonder who they had advising them on the list of potential HC's.  Does anyone remember the list of who they interviewed?

 

 

That’s the one thing you have to commend the Pegulas for and the opposite of Ralph.  If a coach or GM wasn’t working, they wouldn’t keep them around to save money. Instead they would eat a contract and move on.  
 

As far as McDermott’s hiring, Doug Whaley takes credit for getting him an interview and has claimed to be the one who ran the HC search.  

[Alphadawg7]

7 hours ago, JohnNord said:

The 2017 off-season is always interesting to me - especially everything that happened before Beane.  Some will contend that McDermott was calling all of the shot when it came to rosters.  Other like Whaley and Monos will say that they were still acting GM’s as they had been years prior.  
 

It makes you wonder who was really behind the signing of Hyde and Poyer?  Was it McDermott?  Or Whaley?  

 

Another big move was declining the 5th year option on Sammy Watkins.  You can argue that picking up option might have been the better move, especially if they had planned on trading him.  They could get more for someone who wasn’t a complete rental. 
 

The Bills also f’ed up the FA compensation formula as well.  Had they been smarter about their FA signings, they could have come away with a compensatory pick for Stephon Gilmore.  

Whaley and Monos have said otherwise, but all the moves IMO have McDermott’s fingerprints on them. 

 

I don’t think they could have gotten anymore for Watkins.  They got a 2nd and a good CB for him, that was quite a lot given Watkins mediocre stats and injury history.  

[LeGOATski]

4 hours ago, Batman1876 said:

My bad, I thought your point was Pederson turned the organization around quickly. 

Pederson, Roseman, Snoopy, Mr Magoo.... put whatever name you want in there.

[Charles Romes]

All GMs/managing coaches have visions. It has been shocking how many visions of McBeane have come to fruition with a cost sensitive strategy. I love how McBeane will adopt a multifaceted strategy to address a position which includes value free agents, draft picks, and mass competition. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

 

'What McBeane have done since 2017 nothing short of amazing.'

*
Waiting for the inevitable Gloomy Gus to repackage the title's drift as:

 

What McBeane have done since 2017?  Nothing!  Short of amazing!

Edited October 15, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013