Penalty Analysis: Bills vs Chiefs

[Orlando Buffalo]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I actually agree with you on the Morse flag. Thought that was very ticky tacky. There was the absolute slightest jersey tug but he had let go within a second. The Dion one the fact that Devin was already gone is not a consideration for that foul. Was just a bonehead mistake by Dion.

 

I have. He says pretty much that. Both RTP calls were valid, the DPI on Tre was a bad call (though he isn't as sure it is uncatchable) and while the Bills were slightly more affected by penalties there is nothing to suggest the refs were not calling things that should have been called on KC 

As I think most have stated is that officiating is awful overall. Of course we see the bad against us more but when the NFL could improve it quickly and easily and choose not to it is maddening 

[Orlando Buffalo]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Where we have a disconnect re: the Oliver penalty and low "hits" is between how the rule is written and how it's being called.

The rule was written and intended to prevent "forcible contact" on QB's below the knee. It wasn't supposed to be a penalty for tackling a guy low, it was supposed to protect QB's from being "hit" low.

Unfortunately the officials don't want to deal with the subjectivity inherent in the rule so they have just taken to calling any contact at or below the knee as a penalty, even if it is just a guy grabbing hold and wrapping up. If they're not going to call it as it's written, I wish they would just scrap it. They can still leave the stripes the capability to call unnecessary roughness penalties for guys delivering egregious shots to the knee.

The rule is written plainly and the Oliver call is within the parameters. I don't like the rule much but it was called correctly. The RTP on Josh was also correct due to falling him with weight. That rule I like better but neither call was why the crew calling that game was garbage. Let the players play and only call which must be called, like RTP.

Edited October 14, 2021 by Buffalo Timmy

[MJS]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I mean..... I did say all this at the time. The refs were not nearly as bad as Bills fans think. Both RTP calls were rulebook fouls and the one egregious penalty that Bills fans were legitimately annoyed by was the DPI on Tre on an uncatchable ball. 

 

He says pretty early on "let's at least be objective about it" I mean good luck. I have been trying to get Bills fans to be objective about penalties for almost a decade on this board. No luck yet.

The one truly bad call was the hold on Mitch Morse. The rest were justifiable by the rules.

 

But there were some missed holds that I did not like.

[Simon]

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The rule is written plainly

There is nothing plain about "forcible contact". You can interpret it about 100 different ways.

Officials are currently choosing to interpret it as any contact.

 

 

[Ralonzo]

20 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

He says pretty early on "let's at least be objective about it" I mean good luck. I have been trying to get Bills fans to be objective about penalties for almost a decade on this board. No luck yet.

 

I think Poyer's PF was legit...

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

As I think most have stated is that officiating is awful overall. Of course we see the bad against us more but when the NFL could improve it quickly and easily and choose not to it is maddening 

What was interesting that the Bills got the breaks from officiating for a few weeks... you know, like the good teams often do. But against the Chiefs it was like the sad-sack Bills vs Pats rules. Perception is a lot of it. With this win the Bills seize the perception that they are that team, the one that is better and executes and if they're winning it's not because they're cheating, it's that they're better. It's a slim, subconscious margin but I'm sure it exists at some level.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, MJS said:

The one truly bad call was the hold on Mitch Morse. The rest were justifiable by the rules.

But there were some missed holds that I did not like.

 

I thought the DPI on Tre and the uncalled DPI on Diggs were pretty egregious

Both RTP were legit by rule

 

Poyer's PF was inadvertant I think, but by rule, yes appropriate to call

[GoBills808]

Bills had one first down via penalty

 

Chiefs had FIVE

 

and double the penalty yardage 

[LABILLBACKER]

22 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

The author concludes the Bills were adversely effected by penalties at over double the rate the Chiefs were. Anomalous both between two teams and against league/Bills averages. Effectively, it was a poorly officiated game that dramatically favored the Chiefs.

 

 

The 1st quarter was a joke. I was like "these guys aren't even trying to disguise it".....

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

I don't think a single penalty called on KC was soft. I think several penalties on the Bills were soft and that several legitimate penalties were not called on KC. Which penalty called on KC would you equate with the hold called on Morse?

 

I don't equate one with the hold called on Morse. That was a bad call. That wasn't a soft penalty that was just a bad call. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

7 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

I think Poyer's PF was legit...

What was interesting that the Bills got the breaks from officiating for a few weeks... you know, like the good teams often do. But against the Chiefs it was like the sad-sack Bills vs Pats rules. Perception is a lot of it. With this win the Bills seize the perception that they are that team, the one that is better and executes and if they're winning it's not because they're cheating, it's that they're better. It's a slim, subconscious margin but I'm sure it exists at some level.

I agree we got all of the calls vs Houston especially and it makes the games less enjoyable when the officials don't seem to have a standard. KC was just an extreme example 

[Orlando Buffalo]

8 hours ago, Simon said:

There is nothing plain about "forcible contact". You can interpret it about 100 different ways.

Officials are currently choosing to interpret it as any contact.

 

 

Your point is valid- the fact that they all seem to interpret it the same way means the league has been clear what it means. I should have stated the league is clear in the rule meaning. 

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

On 10/13/2021 at 4:52 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

Did we ever get an explanation for the 1st and 5?  I've seen less than 1st and 20, but never less than 1st and 10 after offensive holding.

 

The hold occurred well downfield, so was ten yards back from the spot of the foul. Replay the down, but it became first and 5.

[Billsfan1972]

8 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Bills had one first down via penalty

 

Chiefs had FIVE

 

and double the penalty yardage 

And that was the RTP after the bogus Holding call that cost the bills a first down.  

[BFLO]

A rushing defender is prohibited from forcibly hitting in the knee area or below a passer who has one or both feet on the ground, even if the initial contact is above the knee. It is not a foul if the defender is blocked (or fouled) into the passer and has no opportunity to avoid him.
 

 

Both of Mahomes feet were in the air. So why was the Oliver hit a penalty?

[Son of a K-Gun]

On 10/13/2021 at 10:27 PM, Buffalo Timmy said:

The rule is written plainly and the Oliver call is within the parameters. I don't like the rule much but it was called correctly. The RTP on Josh was also correct due to falling him with weight. That rule I like better but neither call was why the crew calling that game was garbage. Let the players play and only call which must be called, like RTP.

I watched Tyreek Hill’s mic’d up from Sunday night and saw this angle of the RTP on Josh…looks a bit worse than what we saw on the broadcast.  
 

[Scott7975]

On 10/13/2021 at 6:49 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

See I separate Morse and White out - they were bad calls. Mistakes by the officials. Dawkins, Oliver and Clark were all 'soft' in a sense but were all rulebook penalties. A lot of crews in the NFL would not have called them, but this crew is flag happy on a week to week basis. They are pretty consistent calling those. 

 

Thats fine, you separate them out and say oh well.  Im fine with ticky tacky calls as long as its called the same on both sides.  It was not.  I seen 3 obvious holds on Groot and there was a lot of space on the field so no way could it not be seen and none of them were called.  So to call a ticky tacky call on Dawkins and a total BS call on Morse is exactly what it is... BS referee control.  To call PI on the Bills and "not see" the several times Diggs arm was held well before the ball got there is further BS referee control.

 

Conspiracy no.  I don't think anyone is out to get the Bills.  Maybe Hughes.  Referees were either terrible or they were trying to control the score of the football game until the Bills showed they couldn't.  I see far too many BS calls that completely screw the other team.  Even sometimes when the play is reviewed for me to think that all referee crews are just bad. This is why I rarely watch an NFL game that doesn't effect the Bills.  Its a Bills game or its a game that determines the Bills seeding in the playoffs.  Thats about all I watch because I am tired of the WWF BS.

 

I know you disagree with that and that's fine.  I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Scott7975