Trade deadline buzz

[MAJBobby]

56 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Neither, actually. 

 

Engram:  I do like his speed. As a TE he's a match up nightmare...when he plays. That's been and continues to be his issue.

 

Beckham isn't the player he once was and frankly I don't see him as anything above the #3 WR here if he was a Bill behind Diggs and Sanders. 

 Both improve the Team. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

53 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 Both improve the Team. 

Disagree. Engram might be an improvement at TE2 but hasn't been healthy all year. We really need another TE in and out of the lineup? 

 

Beckham doesn't even improve his own team. He's also playing this year with pretty major injuries. And again isn't anything above WR3 on this team...and possibly 4th in the pecking order once Knox is back. And is he better on the field than Beasley as a 5th option? Debatable. Would rather see them actually use Gabe Davis if Beasley isn't it.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… let’s concern ourselves more with the cap than making a trade for a player who can potentially put this team over the top and help with them a SB…

 

 

Yes, Scott. That's correct.

 

This is not a one-year window. We could compete for championships for a decade ... if we don't do anything too stupid with the cap.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea… let’s concern ourselves more with the cap than making a trade for a player who can potentially put this team over the top and help with them a SB…

 

 

Yep,  when you get a franchise QB the dopes always assume the team has a decade of dominance ahead.

 

In October of 2000 if you said the Peyton Manning Colts would only win 1 SB over the next 11 seasons........that would have seemed ridiculous.........the future was theirs.......by A LOT..........an inevitable dynasty.

 

The Bills may eventually field better teams.........but maybe they won't ever have a better chance at a SB than this season.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

35 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep,  when you get a franchise QB the dopes always assume the team has a decade of dominance ahead.

 

In October of 2000 if you said the Peyton Manning Colts would only win 1 SB over the next 11 seasons........that would have seemed ridiculous.........the future was theirs.......by A LOT..........an inevitable dynasty.

 

The Bills may eventually field better teams.........but maybe they won't ever have a better chance at a SB than this season.

 

 

 

 

True. They might not ever have a better chance than this year. There is no particular reason to think that's true, but as with most things, it's possible. We might not ever have a better chance than this year.

 

One way to greatly increase the chances that that comes true and we don't ever have a better chance ... is to ***** up the cap.

 

Luckily, Beane knows this even if many fans don't.

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Thurman#1

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

True. They might not ever have a better chance than this year. There is no particular reason to think that's true, but as with most things, it's possible. We might not ever have a better chance than this year.

 

One way to greatly increase the chances that that comes true and we don't ever have a better chance ... is to ***** up the cap.

 

Luckily, Beane knows this even if many fans don't.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh there are many "particular" reasons that this might be their best chance at a Lombardi.

 

A conference without a dominant team........even the other top teams like KC and Baltimore have glaring weaknesses.

 

An extremely favorable, easy schedule that a 1st place team rarely sees.........including a division of all non-playoff contenders,  two with rookie starting QB's.

 

Still being in the prime rookie QB contract window(yes this year and next Allen is still a low cap hit).

 

It would be difficult to be MORE setup to win a Super Bowl than the Bills are right now.  

 

Unless you are the Belichick Patriots and can comfortably lose a bunch of starters every offseason and not miss a beat..........and the Bills have clearly been more of a continuity-based organization.......then you are likely to have windows of very different sizes over the course of a decade even if you have a great QB.

 

Green Bay is an example of a team that has always played the long game with Rodgers and it's cost them.   They got that SB very early in his career(2010 season).........catching the NFC in a down year and the only season where the Patriots were clearly the best team in the NFL but didn't reach the SB on a flukey loss to Rex and the Jets.   If the latter doesn't happen..........Rodgers may be the Dan Marino of this generation. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by BADOLBILZ

[Dr. Who]

You know the best way to win multiple SBs when the window is open for you? Make sure you take your shot at the first one when the planets have alligned for you.

[billsfan89]

21 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yep,  when you get a franchise QB the dopes always assume the team has a decade of dominance ahead.

 

In October of 2000 if you said the Peyton Manning Colts would only win 1 SB over the next 11 seasons........that would have seemed ridiculous.........the future was theirs.......by A LOT..........an inevitable dynasty.

 

The Bills may eventually field better teams.........but maybe they won't ever have a better chance at a SB than this season.

 

 

 

Nothing is for certain in the world of sports especially football. The Bills will be a very good team or at least a good team for the foreseeable future. But right now this team they have could be the chance to win a Super Bowl. But the NFL is an odd place when it comes to in season trades. In the NBA, NHL and MLB if you need that last piece for your team you can usually find it. If you need a piece to add to your bench or a little bit of shooting in the NBA you can find it if you are willing to give up a pick or a young player or take back some salary. In the NHL and MLB there are always sellers willing to take back picks and prospects for that one player you feel gives you the edge for a stretch run. 

 

But the NFL isn't always filled with sellers at the trade deadline nor is the cap flexible to allow teams to make trades. The Bills have 3 million in cap space that's not a lot to work with on top of that they have no glaring needs that they would sell out for. If there was a piece that they could add I would be all for it, but it just doesn't appear to line up that way at this moment. 

[BADOLBILZ]

41 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Nothing is for certain in the world of sports especially football. The Bills will be a very good team or at least a good team for the foreseeable future. But right now this team they have could be the chance to win a Super Bowl. But the NFL is an odd place when it comes to in season trades. In the NBA, NHL and MLB if you need that last piece for your team you can usually find it. If you need a piece to add to your bench or a little bit of shooting in the NBA you can find it if you are willing to give up a pick or a young player or take back some salary. In the NHL and MLB there are always sellers willing to take back picks and prospects for that one player you feel gives you the edge for a stretch run. 

 

But the NFL isn't always filled with sellers at the trade deadline nor is the cap flexible to allow teams to make trades. The Bills have 3 million in cap space that's not a lot to work with on top of that they have no glaring needs that they would sell out for. If there was a piece that they could add I would be all for it, but it just doesn't appear to line up that way at this moment. 

 

 

High impact, in-season trades happen in the NFL.    The Bills own Emmanuel Sanders was a recent example in 2019.   He helped San Francisco reach the SB and was open on the long throw late in the game that likely wins the game for SF if Jimmy G doesn't air-mail it.

 

As a fan who watched Bill Polian intentionally sit on his hands in the offseasons during the Bills SB run..........stubbornly determined to prove that his team had no weaknesses..........I think we should remember that the most important SB win is the first one.  

 

 I still remember being astounded that San Fran traded Charles Haley to the Cowboys a week before the 1992 season........arguably the 49ers biggest rival historically even prior to their 90's matchups..........and somehow the Bills weren't in on that outright theft of talent despite their SB window being open.    Not only did they not get a defensive identity game changer but Haley ended up helping another team beat them in the SB.   

 

But there is this idea among fans that moving some money around to add a difference maker automatically means a lesser team in the future.........and frankly that is neither necessarily true nor is it as important as giving yourself a better chance to a SB in this season.

[Albany,n.y.]

On 10/22/2021 at 4:55 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

If Barkley is traded he would probably only get a 3rd at best, and more likely a 4th.  Fans ALWAYS grossly over value players in trade.  RB's are have the lowest value of them all.  And Barkley had one great season, his rookie year and a good 2nd season.  He has done nothing in 2 years and been injury prone.  

 

The NFL history it littered with the bodies of RB's who came out the gate and made a big impact and then never lived up to that production again, and thats WITHOUT injuries.  Barry Sanders played behind one off the worst OL I have ever seen...still dominant.  Barkley has struggled behind that line and hasn't shown anyone he can get stay healthy or even get back to form once healthy.  

 

 

The only way Barkley is getting traded is if Gettleman gets fired 1st.  He's not even playing this week. This time it's his ankle.  Gettleman isn't taking a 3rd for a guy who he put his job on the line to draft when he could have taken any of the many hits at the top end of the 2018 draft.  Now once Gettleman is gone the new GM may cut his losses, but who wants to pay Barkley $7.27 million guaranteed next year if he doesn't start producing this year & if he does then the Giants will keep him & pay him his 5th year option themselves.  

[billsfan89]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

High impact, in-season trades happen in the NFL.    The Bills own Emmanuel Sanders was a recent example in 2019.   He helped San Francisco reach the SB and was open on the long throw late in the game that likely wins the game for SF if Jimmy G doesn't air-mail it.

 

As a fan who watched Bill Polian intentionally sit on his hands in the offseasons during the Bills SB run..........stubbornly determined to prove that his team had no weaknesses..........I think we should remember that the most important SB win is the first one.  

 

 I still remember being astounded that San Fran traded Charles Haley to the Cowboys a week before the 1992 season........arguably the 49ers biggest rival historically even prior to their 90's matchups..........and somehow the Bills weren't in on that outright theft of talent despite their SB window being open.    Not only did they not get a defensive identity game changer but Haley ended up helping another team beat them in the SB.   

 

But there is this idea among fans that moving some money around to add a difference maker automatically means a lesser team in the future.........and frankly that is neither necessarily true nor is it as important as giving yourself a better chance to a SB in this season.

 

They do happen but a lot has to line up in order for it to occur. First a team needs cap space and the Bills don't have it. Secondly the needs of a contending team have to line up with a team who has a productive player that is either older or on the final year of their deal. I am not saying it can't happen but it isn't as easy or as common as it is in other sports. 

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

They do happen but a lot has to line up in order for it to occur. First a team needs cap space and the Bills don't have it. Secondly the needs of a contending team have to line up with a team who has a productive player that is either older or on the final year of their deal. I am not saying it can't happen but it isn't as easy or as common as it is in other sports. 

 

Well the whole point of this thread is discussing trade options which line up well on paper.    This is one of them.

 

The Bills don't have cap space at this very moment only because they don't need it right now.   If they need it, they can make it with a modest restructure of a contract or two.   Not even remotely talking about a hard salary cap here.

 

Norwell isn't in the last season of his contract but his base salary is high and they are a rebuilding team.    Sometimes,  usually in fact,  offensive guard is one of the easiest positions on the field to replace adequately.

 

The Bills are just caught with their pants down there this year.    Creating an opportunity for the Jags to possibly extract a day 2 pick and perhaps a lottery ticket on a guy like Cody Ford in exchange for a player signed to a big contract by different leadership  than Urban Meyer that they might not want to pay $20M to as they are schedule to over the next season and a half.

 

These are the kind of situations that result in trades.

 

It's how the Kelvin Benjamin deal went down.    It wasn't a walk year deal.

 

Waiting until players are in their walk years is how you get a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick instead of a 3rd or 4th because if the Jags were 2-6 at this point next year teams would be looking at taking Norwell's $7M remaining salary off the Jags hands as doing them a big favor.

 

See the Zach Ertz trade.   Ertz answered the offseason questions about his health and viability as a starting TE,   the Cardinals were desperate for TE help,  and still all Philly got was a 5th and another player who was a late rounder.   

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said:

The only way Barkley is getting traded is if Gettleman gets fired 1st.  He's not even playing this week. This time it's his ankle.  Gettleman isn't taking a 3rd for a guy who he put his job on the line to draft when he could have taken any of the many hits at the top end of the 2018 draft.  Now once Gettleman is gone the new GM may cut his losses, but who wants to pay Barkley $7.27 million guaranteed next year if he doesn't start producing this year & if he does then the Giants will keep him & pay him his 5th year option themselves.  

Oh I’m not saying he’s getting traded, I was talking about what he would be worth in trade if it happened.  I agree, I don’t think Barkley is going anywhere before the trade deadline 

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Oh I’m not saying he’s getting traded, I was talking about what he would be worth in trade if it happened.  I agree, I don’t think Barkley is going anywhere before the trade deadline 

They should try to trade him.

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Well the whole point of this thread is discussing trade options which line up well on paper.    This is one of them.

 

The Bills don't have cap space at this very moment only because they don't need it right now.   If they need it, they can make it with a modest restructure of a contract or two.   Not even remotely talking about a hard salary cap here.

 

Norwell isn't in the last season of his contract but his base salary is high and they are a rebuilding team.    Sometimes,  usually in fact,  offensive guard is one of the easiest positions on the field to replace adequately.

 

The Bills are just caught with their pants down there this year.    Creating an opportunity for the Jags to possibly extract a day 2 pick and perhaps a lottery ticket on a guy like Cody Ford in exchange for a player signed to a big contract by different leadership  than Urban Meyer that they might not want to pay $20M to as they are schedule to over the next season and a half.

 

These are the kind of situations that result in trades.

 

It's how the Kelvin Benjamin deal went down.    It wasn't a walk year deal.

 

Waiting until players are in their walk years is how you get a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick instead of a 3rd or 4th because if the Jags were 2-6 at this point next year teams would be looking at taking Norwell's $7M remaining salary off the Jags hands as doing them a big favor.

 

See the Zach Ertz trade.   Ertz answered the offseason questions about his health and viability as a starting TE,   the Cardinals were desperate for TE help,  and still all Philly got was a 5th and another player who was a late rounder.   

 

The Bills restructured the base salaries to bonuses for Diggs, White, Dawkins and Poyer along with redoing Mitch, Addison and Butler who took pay cuts. I am not sure who else on the roster they can restructure to free up enough space to accomodate a 7 million dollar a year salary. I am honestly asking since I am not NFL cap expert and maybe there is a way to free up the space. 

 

I would easily welcome a trade for Norwell as it lines up with the teams needs and lines up for the Jags to trade him. But the Bills cap and Norwell's salary is just not something that reconciles to me. 

[SCBills]

I’m ok taking the long term/compete year in-year out approach, but you can do that and also make moves … it’s not one or the other.  
 

As far as the future goes… We may have the best young QB in the conference with the competition moving forward being Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert and a team built around a dominant RB.  
 

Im ok with playing the long term game, as long as we make moves when they make sense.   
 

Making a move before the deadline makes sense (as long as there’s a deal to be made) because we have a good bit of cap space that we can get off the books if needed next year … and they’re players that aren’t exactly necessary to continued success. 
 

 

Edited October 24, 2021 by SCBills

[LABILLBACKER]

Our 3 biggest needs are OL, TE & RB.  I would try to trade Addison or Singletary and include a pick. We need a better compliment to Knox than Sweeney. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I will be paying attention to teams inactive players today 

[billsfan89]

46 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Our 3 biggest needs are OL, TE & RB.  I would try to trade Addison or Singletary and include a pick. We need a better compliment to Knox than Sweeney. 

 

We will see how good Sweeney is in the next two games and then can see if the team can make any marginal upgrades to the backup TE spot. As far as RB I don't see the need. The team has two young and healthy backs who are producing fairly well. I do think Sanders from Philly would be a slight upgrade but I don't see the organization coughing up a decent pick to modestly upgrade the RB position. 

 

Guard is a spot that I wouldn't mind seeing an upgrade. I am not as harsh on Mongo as many here are. I think Mongo is a decent starting caliber guard. But he is average at best. If this team were to somehow find a good guard out on the market that could plug into Mongo's spot that would be great. I think Mongo off the bench is a fantastic add as he can play guard or center better than most bench players. But the only guard on the market possibly is Norwell who has a huge cap number that isn't compatible with the Bills cap situation. 

[CSBill]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

I will be paying attention to teams inactive players today 

Anything of note?