What did the chiefs do on defense?

[TheBrownBear]

We averaged almost 8.5 yards per play last night.  A couple of drops, penalties, second half weather and the Chiefs playing keep away from us were the only reasons we didn't hang 50 points and 500 yards on these dudes.

[Jobot]

Refs were awful on both sides, but for SURE were a little more favorable towards the Chiefs. But rain delay, and playing in a very loud road game in arrowhead against a good team... I think what we felt throughout the game was enhanced due to us as fans. Outsiders watching this game come away with one conclusion... Bills domination of KC.

[JMF2006]

58 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I don’t mean to be critical after a win, but the chiefs seem to really confuse the Bills’ offense over these last 3 meetings. We got them on some big plays last night, but the offense seemed out of rhythm all night. 
 

Coming into the game, we heard that their Run D was terrible And that they give up a lot of passing in the intermediate area. But the Bills didn’t run the ball great, and didn’t find success in the intermediate area. Diggs and Beasley were non-factors outside of the Diggs bomb. 
 

This isn’t meant to be critical of the O— but my question is what exactly were the chiefs doing on D? (Eg, what coverages, how are they confusing us and stopping our receivers)? 

 

They lived up to their 31st ranking by giving up 31 points at home  

[Greg McAndrew]

In my opinion the Chiefs defensive backs get away with murder, just like the patriots used to.

They are always grabbing, pushing holding opposing receivers.

I think at home, we would have really beat the chiefs down.

As it is we gave them a physical beating.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I don’t mean to be critical after a win, but the chiefs seem to really confuse the Bills’ offense over these last 3 meetings. We got them on some big plays last night, but the offense seemed out of rhythm all night. 
 

Coming into the game, we heard that their Run D was terrible And that they give up a lot of passing in the intermediate area. But the Bills didn’t run the ball great, and didn’t find success in the intermediate area. Diggs and Beasley were non-factors outside of the Diggs bomb. 
 

This isn’t meant to be critical of the O— but my question is what exactly were the chiefs doing on D? (Eg, what coverages, how are they confusing us and stopping our receivers)? 

 

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but I posted this in another thread and it may be a good starting point

 

They had a plan ready for us.

 

Their plan was

1) take away the stuff over the middle and the 10-20 yd stuff where Josh was deadly last season (this has been the plan from several teams)

2) know where Diggs is at all times and take him away as best you can, Josh hasn't built the chemistry with Manny Sands yet

3) pressure Josh, he can't hit the deep stuff when he's pressured

4) take away the runs between the tackles, our backs don't have the speed to bounce outside

 

In order to do this they made the following assumptions:

1) Dawson Knox is not much of a receiving threat, especially deep

2) Josh won't check down or take the short stuff, he's just not wired that way

3)  The Bills won't be using the $258M man on designed run plays or letting him expose himself on scrambles

4) Josh has trouble hitting the deep shots, focus on taking the 10-20 yd stuff away

 

Surprise!

Knox came through Big Time as a downfield receiving threat

Josh steadily  "took the bunnies" - the hot read throwing into a blitz, the checkdown to the HB in the flat

Bills said "you gonna dare Josh to run, Surprise! he's got $258M legs (and he knows how to use them)

We threw a double-shot of Z-MO at them, and he's a harder back to stop than Motor.

 

I can't answer the details of the coverages without the all 22 and frankly, it's so challenging to use for me - but I'm sure Cover1 and others will do a good job explaining

 

[YattaOkasan]

Josh averaged 21 yards per completion.  Thought the offense looked fine considering the weather, some bogus calls, and some really bad no calls (2 3rd downs fell incomplete because of PI with Diggs).

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but I posted this in another thread and it may be a good starting point

 

They had a plan ready for us.

 

Their plan was

1) take away the stuff over the middle and the 10-20 yd stuff where Josh was deadly last season (this has been the plan from several teams)

2) know where Diggs is at all times and take him away as best you can, Josh hasn't built the chemistry with Manny Sands yet

3) pressure Josh, he can't hit the deep stuff when he's pressured

4) take away the runs between the tackles, our backs don't have the speed to bounce outside

 

In order to do this they made the following assumptions:

1) Dawson Knox is not much of a receiving threat, especially deep

2) Josh won't check down or take the short stuff, he's just not wired that way

3)  The Bills won't be using the $258M man on designed run plays or letting him expose himself on scrambles

4) Josh has trouble hitting the deep shots, focus on taking the 10-20 yd stuff away

 

Surprise!

Knox came through Big Time as a downfield receiving threat

Josh steadily  "took the bunnies" - the hot read throwing into a blitz, the checkdown to the HB in the flat

Bills said "you gonna dare Josh to run, Surprise! he's got $258M legs (and he knows how to use them)

We threw a double-shot of Z-MO at them, and he's a harder back to stop than Motor.

 

I can't answer the details of the coverages without the all 22 and frankly, it's so challenging to use for me - but I'm sure Cover1 and others will do a good job explaining

 

Thanks! This is really good stuff. 
 

I was listening to the Cover One podcasts all week, and it was made clear by everyone that Josh would

feast in the intermediate area. So it was sort of surprising that that wasn’t the case. I can only think of like 2 attempts to that area even. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

 

it’s not so much the results— it is that what occurred last night was unlike any of our normal good offensive performances and unlike Any of the chiefs bad defensive performances. 
 

All week, the talk was the way to crush the chiefs on D is to have your RB’s run the ball and hit them With lots of intermediate throws over the middle. But that didn’t happen. So, I am curious what the chiefs were doing defensively out there. 

 

just as the Bills did early 

 

they kept the deep passing lanes well covered 

 

Which leaves big gaps to run through

 

the better team won 

[Rock'em Sock'em]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

but the offense seemed out of rhythm all night

We only had 55 plays on offense.

Heavy rain affected the passing games of both teams - in the 2nd half, the Chiefs used the opportunity to crowd the LOS and create pressures.  Whereas the Bills tended to play cover 2 the entire night.

We averaged 21 yards per pass completion and 13 yards per attempt - which is unreal considering the weather.

Running game was good, if you include Allen's attempts.

Josh Allen had one of his better games all things considered.

 

[Beast]

The offense put up 31 points in a hostile enviroment against the reiging Conference Champs.

 

I mean, they get paid too. You can't hang a 50 on everyone.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Beast

[RyanC883]

it's almost like we had a balanced attack running and throwing  the ball.  They had to defend both and couldn't.  Also, OL seems much more nasty this year, love it.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Diggs dropped a first down catch right after half time. Singletary dopped a screen pass and Dawkins got called for holding after the kickoff fumble recovery. Allen missed Sanders in the end-zone on 4rd down leafing to a FG.

Chiefs never came close to consistently stooping the Bills. Only a rare few errors stopped the Bills.

[SectionC3]

57 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

After their 4 man rush got thrashed, they crowded the LOS and blitzed.  Buffalo got behind the sticks 3 times in a row in the 3rd quarter with some stuffed runs and misses on 2nd downs.  They picked up the 1st on the RTP after the phantom hold, and after that used the backs and boundaries to get free yards.  If you crowd the LOS then you're leaving the boundaries open and forcing your players to try and make more difficult tackles.  

 

I thought their defense got away with a couple of DPI's on diggs, and Dawkins got a penalty on the drive after the special teams FF that basically derailed it.  Still... 430 yards, 31 points by the O, only 20 1st downs (but several really big plays).

I really think the rain made a difference there.  

[BADOLBILZ]

28 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This doesn't exactly answer your question, but I posted this in another thread and it may be a good starting point

 

They had a plan ready for us.

 

Their plan was

1) take away the stuff over the middle and the 10-20 yd stuff where Josh was deadly last season (this has been the plan from several teams)

2) know where Diggs is at all times and take him away as best you can, Josh hasn't built the chemistry with Manny Sands yet

3) pressure Josh, he can't hit the deep stuff when he's pressured

4) take away the runs between the tackles, our backs don't have the speed to bounce outside

 

In order to do this they made the following assumptions:

1) Dawson Knox is not much of a receiving threat, especially deep

2) Josh won't check down or take the short stuff, he's just not wired that way

3)  The Bills won't be using the $258M man on designed run plays or letting him expose himself on scrambles

4) Josh has trouble hitting the deep shots, focus on taking the 10-20 yd stuff away

 

Surprise!

Knox came through Big Time as a downfield receiving threat

Josh steadily  "took the bunnies" - the hot read throwing into a blitz, the checkdown to the HB in the flat

Bills said "you gonna dare Josh to run, Surprise! he's got $258M legs (and he knows how to use them)

We threw a double-shot of Z-MO at them, and he's a harder back to stop than Motor.

 

I can't answer the details of the coverages without the all 22 and frankly, it's so challenging to use for me - but I'm sure Cover1 and others will do a good job explaining

 

 

 

A good deal of what KC did worked............they got killed by some deep shots that Allen just hadn't been making.

 

It wasn't a great offensive performance by new Bills standards............they stalled in the third quarter and went 3 and out after two turnovers..........fortunately Hyde took the other one that took place in the competitive portion of the game to the house.

 

If the defense isn't so effective we are talking about how the offense let them down in KC again.

 

I enjoyed it though.........I love big play offense and hate the dink and dunk(it's a recipe for mistakes, ask KC).........I like the tighter formations and less receivers in routes to create separation for those big plays............but the Bills have a lot of room to improve on that side of the ball.

 

On the flip side..........KC actually misses Sammy Watkins.........they are hurting for some decent route runners.

 

 

[Dan]

At one point, I believe the Bills had  24 points on 24 offensive plays.  At another point, the Chiefs had 69 offensive plays vs 35 for the Bills.  
 

Seems like the game plan was to score fast on O. Then let the D wear the Chiefs offense out with long drives.  
 

it worked to perfection. 

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I don’t mean to be critical after a win, but the chiefs seem to really confuse the Bills’ offense over these last 3 meetings. We got them on some big plays last night, but the offense seemed out of rhythm all night. 
 

Coming into the game, we heard that their Run D was terrible And that they give up a lot of passing in the intermediate area. But the Bills didn’t run the ball great, and didn’t find success in the intermediate area. Diggs and Beasley were non-factors outside of the Diggs bomb. 
 

This isn’t meant to be critical of the O— but my question is what exactly were the chiefs doing on D? (Eg, what coverages, how are they confusing us and stopping our receivers)? 

 

IMO, the KC defense played about as well as they could have played in taking away what they wanted to (that intermediate area. They also did a pretty good job of making Allen move in the pocket and out of the pocket at times. But in the end, KC was fortunate that the Bills didn't put up 40 - 50 points. 

 

Outside of the last possession where they ran out the clock, The Bills had 8 possessions:

 

1st half

1. TD

2. Punt (Bills went from a 1st and goal at KC's 8 into a punt because of a penalty on Dawkins that had no impact on the play)

3. TD

4. FG (KC defense actually played well inside the 10)

 

2nd half

5. Punt (Driving rain and on a 3rd and 2, Diggs unable to hold on to a 1st down catch with, IMO, clear pass interference not called)

 

 

6. Punt (Driving rain and good defense)

7. Punt (Diggs unable to make 1st down catch with, IMO, another clear pass interference not called)

 

 

8. TD

 

So, on 8 possessions they scored 3 TDs, a field goal where KC played good defense, and had 4 punts. Of the 4 punts, KC played good D on one of the punts, one punt was the result of a penalty on Dawkins, and 2 punts were because of incomplete 3rd down passes where the penalties were not called.

 

As I said, I think the KC defense played as well as they could and they are fortunate they didn't give up even more points.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

IMO, the KC defense played about as well as they could have played in taking away what they wanted to (that intermediate area. They also did a pretty good job of making Allen move in the pocket and out of the pocket at times. But in the end, KC was fortunate that the Bills didn't put up 40 - 50 points. 

 

Outside of the last possession where they ran out the clock, The Bills had 8 possessions:

 

1st half

1. TD

2. Punt (Bills went from a 1st and goal at KC's 8 into a punt because of a penalty on Dawkins that had no impact on the play)

3. TD

4. FG (KC defense actually played well inside the 10)

 

2nd half

5. Punt (Driving rain and on a 3rd and 2, Diggs unable to hold on to a 1st down catch with, IMO, clear pass interference not called)

 

 

6. Punt (Driving rain and good defense)

7. Punt (Diggs unable to make 1st down catch with, IMO, another clear pass interference not called)

 

 

8. TD

 

So, on 8 possessions they scored 3 TDs, a field goal where KC played good defense, and had 4 punts. Of the 4 punts, KC played good D on one of the punts, one punt was the result of a penalty on Dawkins, and 2 punts were because of incomplete 3rd down passes where the penalties were not called.

 

As I said, I think the KC defense played as well as they could and they are fortunate they didn't give up even more points.

great stuff— thanks! 

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

We didn't have milano was that even mentioned lol 

 

There was a brief mention of that in the 4th quarter, but at least four or five discussions of the Chiefs being down two starters.

[eSJayDee]

What did their defense do, let's see...

Well, in the 3rd quarter, they were effective in stopping us.  As for the 4th, I think their strategy was "get so far behind & out of the game, that they stop trying to score".  I think they managed to accomplish that quite well. 

As for the 1st half, seems like their strategy was "don't let them hit those intermediate 10-20 yd passes", which they did a reasonable job of as well.  How, let guys open 30-50 yds down the field.  We averaged over 30 yds a complete! And it wasn't skewed by a single long play.

I'll add statistically our offense was "hindered" by the fact that KC had the ball so long.  Our defense didn't totally stymy them (KC's offense is too good for that), but rather VERY effectively slowed them down so they couldn't keep up w/ our offensive production.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

Thanks! This is really good stuff. 
 

I was listening to the Cover One podcasts all week, and it was made clear by everyone that Josh would

feast in the intermediate area. So it was sort of surprising that that wasn’t the case. I can only think of like 2 attempts to that area even. 

 

I think when the all-22 comes out, it will be seen that the Chiefs were playing to take that away.  And why wouldn't they, that's where Josh feasted last season

 

It also looked, from the first few games and his limited YPA, as though he was struggling with the deep ball especially in wind and rain

Steelers (17 mph winds):                                                                                    WFT (21 mph winds):

Texans (rainy):                                                                              Week 2 against the Dolphins:

 

 

 

That's like completing 4 passes over 20 yds, out of 12 attempts in 3 games.  Week 2 against the Dolphins didn't tell a different story (make that 6 out of 16)

 

IIRC (he was HC in StL) Spags is a pretty big stats guy.  So he looks at prev. games and says, front coming through (wind), gonna rain - above all, take away the 5-20 yd stuff, he might hit a couple deep shots but So What"  Spags looks at Allen's historical tendencies and says "he hates to check down and he's not very good at it, don't worry about the passes in the flats."  It's what he did successfully in the AFCCG after all - Singletary typically had enough green space around him to cultivate a Christmas tree farm.  Last Spags looks at Knox historically and *snorts*, while he schemes to double Diggs with a safety over the top.  He's not as worried about Sanders because Sanders catch percentage was crap the way the Steelers and Miami were playing him.

 

KC had them a great little 'ol plan on paper.  Football games are played on grass or turf.

6 of Josh's 26 attempts were >20 yds, and he completed 5 of them (I think the 6th was uncalled DPI on Diggs and so did Allen and McDermott)

6 of Josh's 26 attempts were behind or at the LOS and he completed 5 of them

 

This is Big.  Now that teams know that they can still get whupped if they take away the stuff Josh and the Bills historically do well and leave them the stuff they historically do badly, it's a Whole New World.

 

Anyone who might beef because Josh didn't throw more than 26 attempts or complete more than 58% of his passes, simply doesn't appreciate the execution of a fine game plan that took what the defense was giving them.

46 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think they felt the pressure a bit after their first couple drives where they punted twice…. You could sense they were pressing and flustered a little knowing they needed to continue burn clock and score points… Josh’s run for a first down on 3rd was big only to be called back by a holding penalty… they seemed to calm down after the roughing the passer call and Josh’s leap was the dagger. Like all the pressure they felt melted away. 

 

Who is "they" in this post?

 

Because factually, the Bills did not "punt twice" on their first couple drives.  They scored a TD right out of the gate, then again on their 3rd drive.

Neither did the Chiefs for that matter, so that can't be referring to them, either