Are the Bills originating a new trend with such a deep D-line rotation?

[Motor26]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

I'm not sure its a trend - there's still a ton of game changing players at the positions along the dline that make a lot of money.  All that money makes it hard to have solid depth behind them. 

The Bills also don’t have a truly game changing guy who makes a ton of money on the Dline. They have cost controlled depth, for now. 

[MJS]

2 hours ago, BearNorth said:

My real concern with this is how do you stop Derrick Henry or the Browns duo of RB's that are pounders.  Not as worried about Ekeler as we have pursuit speed.

Having them fresh should help with that too. Star is a big man and he is playing great this year. Maybe he gets the most snaps that day. Maybe Butler is active against them too and he gets some snaps, because he is pretty big too.

 

I think they have the guys. They've been much better versus the run this year. Henry is going to get his, though...

[Royale with Cheese]

Where’s Scottlaw to tell us McDermott’s DL rotation is stupid?

[pennstate10]

I believe the Dallas Cowboys of 1992-93 started the trend of rotating 8 DL

 

since then, most teams have rotated DL more than any other defensive level. Teams even today don’t rotate their LB and DB. Yes, they have special packages, but they have a core that stays on field for every snap. Milano, edmunds, tre, Hyde, porter. 
 

what’s a bit different for this years Bills team is how deep and even the rotation has been. As mentioned by others, this is because we have exceptional depth, but no stars. I’m wondering if by years end 50 is getting 70+% of snaps. I watched him closely last night. He was held a lot, but did a really good job keeping contain on Mahomes   I think he’s gonna be a good one.   

[The Frankish Reich]

How quickly we forget. Jim Schwartz's D Line rotation in 2014 made us think guys like Stefan Charles and Manny Lawson and Jarius Wynn were starter quality. He actually played the D line rotation like hockey lines. It was super effective.

My analogy: one of the great insights of the baseball stats geeks is that even an ace starting pitcher becomes no better than a mediocre pitcher the third time through the batting order. Hence starters getting pulled in the 5th inning in the playoffs. (Whether this has made MLB a better or worse experience for the spectator is another question.)  Same thing on the D Line. Even a dominant D lineman like Marcel Dareus (at the time!) was a worse option when tired than a fresh mediocrity like Stefan Charles. O Lines are more of a unit and aren't easy to sub in and out. Fresh D lineman over the course of a game win the war of attrition.

Beane got the depth. Frazier is using it beautifully.

[uninja]

10 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

I’m wondering if by years end 50 is getting 70+% of snaps. I watched him closely last night. He was held a lot, but did a really good job keeping contain on Mahomes   I think he’s gonna be a good one.   

what 50 does is mind boggling to me. He’s effectively a good DE who can also disengage off his block and play spy on the QB and keep contain. He’s basically pulling double duty out there. Last night the Chiefs had to assign Bolton to the spy role, which robs you of an LB to play in coverage. 
 

The fact that we can do that with Rousseau and still have him play is role on DE is nuts. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

4 hours ago, uninja said:

what 50 does is mind boggling to me. He’s effectively a good DE who can also disengage off his block and play spy on the QB and keep contain. He’s basically pulling double duty out there. Last night the Chiefs had to assign Bolton to the spy role, which robs you of an LB to play in coverage. 
 

The fact that we can do that with Rousseau and still have him play is role on DE is nuts. 

Would the young man still be as effective in the 4th quarter if he had played 100% of the snaps?

Another part of what we are doing is that lighter DE's are lighter but can put forth a maximum of physical effort for a few plays at a time, even in the interior,  AND be replaced by a fresh DE to continue the wearing down of the OL.   The Bills are using this to have faster defensive linemen available to attack and contain the running QB's.

[Buffalo716]

McDermott has rotated this defensive line going back to Carolina

 

It's one of his Mo's but there's a few other coaches that do it as well

 

It's just simple, your players stay fresher the less snaps their out there..  better rotation they all play harder every snap

[maryland-bills-fan]

4 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

How quickly we forget. Jim Schwartz's D Line rotation in 2014 made us think guys like Stefan Charles and Manny Lawson and Jarius Wynn were starter quality. He actually played the D line rotation like hockey lines. It was super effective.

My analogy: one of the great insights of the baseball stats geeks is that even an ace starting pitcher becomes no better than a mediocre pitcher the third time through the batting order. Hence starters getting pulled in the 5th inning in the playoffs. (Whether this has made MLB a better or worse experience for the spectator is another question.)  Same thing on the D Line. Even a dominant D lineman like Marcel Dareus (at the time!) was a worse option when tired than a fresh mediocrity like Stefan Charles. O Lines are more of a unit and aren't easy to sub in and out. Fresh D lineman over the course of a game win the war of attrition.

Beane got the depth. Frazier is using it beautifully.

Tat was before the age of the mobile qB

[Fan in Chicago]

The rotation has worked great so far. My only worry and question is about any opponent who starts and sticks with a no huddle offense throughout the game. Granted there arent too many QBs and teams that can pull this off but Brady & Bucs are certainly more than capable.

Any experts out there who can help me?

[ColoradoBills]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Where’s Scottlaw to tell us McDermott’s DL rotation is stupid?

 

[jimmy10]

5 hours ago, MJS said:

Henry is going to get his, though...

Exactly. If Henry gets 100+ and two TDs, but we beat the Thumbtacks 42-17, does anyone really care if we gave up a good fantasy football score to a god-level RB?

Edited October 11, 2021 by jimmy10

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, dneveu said:

I'm not sure its a trend - there's still a ton of game changing players at the positions along the dline that make a lot of money.  All that money makes it hard to have solid depth behind them. 

In two years our D line will have a couple of different guys in the same mold of who they will be replacing, team personnel is a dynamic and fluid aspect, of what makes a dynastic team. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

7 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

We all understand that Buffalo drafted Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and brought in Obama to back up Addison and Hughes.  That is 6 DE's who would or could start on many NFL teams.  They also kept Zimmer, who is sub-300 pounds and has speed.

 

There was a graphic during the TV broadcast that showed that everybody got at least 20 snaps out of  ~ 60 snaps..  It looks like Buffalo is doing two "new" things to attack the recent trend of mobile QB. 

• [1]  kicking DE's inside to DT on passing downs, in order to penetrate (rather than gap fill), and to get guys with more speed to run down the QB AND
• [2] heavily rotating these guys so there is always a fresh player, with good legs to attack & contain the QB.
• [3] we can send in a fresh guy at DE 3 times in a row and have each one of them bull-rush.  It gotta wear out the OL by having them spend a lot of energy and strength on every play-  see what happens in the 4th quarter. 
• This allows the DE to push the OL-man directly back into the QB. It allows the DE to see if and where the QB escapes to get away from pressure AND to slip the block to chase the QB. 

 

It worked this game and we also have the Ravens as another running QB heavy opponent.

 

 

 

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/8/17/22624719/how-many-buffalo-bills-defensive-ends-played-defensive-tackle-snaps-friday-night

https://buffalowdown.com/2021/01/17/buffalo-bills-breaking-down-the-snap-counts-against-the-ravens/

 

McD  has been doing this pretty much the last two seasons, the difference is he didn't have nearly as good a fleet of horses as he does this year to do it with.  The one thing that helps too is they don't have an Arron Donald type on the team as likely if you had to pay top $$ for any specific D lineman, you wouldn't be able to afford 8 other very good ones. 

 

Having Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham, plus Oliver on rookie contracts helps, plus not paying big money to either Zimmer or Obada.

 

Does make me wonder though, if they had a Bruce Smith type on the team, would they sub him out more or not.  Seems it's the trend in many sports for stars to play less.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Where’s Scottlaw to tell us McDermott’s DL rotation is stupid?

They're all busts already!😜

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Its not just the numbers. Its the position versatility. Hughes is laying bothe DE spots. They have 4 guys that can all play the 3 technique.  Groot can drop in coverage on zone blitzes.  I'd like to see them add one true NT type body and let one of the ends go next season. 

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, Fan in Chicago said:

The rotation has worked great so far. My only worry and question is about any opponent who starts and sticks with a no huddle offense throughout the game. Granted there arent too many QBs and teams that can pull this off but Brady & Bucs are certainly more than capable.

Any experts out there who can help me?

 

Teams can try this, but they better score and convert drives.  If they don't, you're quickly giving the ball back to an Offense that can put 7 up in a blink of an eye. ....even quicker when the Defense is worn out from no rest. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

We all understand that Buffalo drafted Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and brought in Obama to back up Addison and Hughes.  That is 6 DE's who would or could start on many NFL teams.  They also kept Zimmer, who is sub-300 pounds and has speed.

 

There was a graphic during the TV broadcast that showed that everybody got at least 20 snaps out of  ~ 60 snaps..  It looks like Buffalo is doing two "new" things to attack the recent trend of mobile QB. 

RE Rotation 

 

Every team wants to achieve this!!!!

 

so, IMO no. Rotation of an entire line is nothing new

5 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Where’s Scottlaw to tell us McDermott’s DL rotation is stupid?

you’re evil 😈 

[eball]

8 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

We all understand that Buffalo drafted Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and brought in Obama to back up Addison and Hughes.  That is 6 DE's who would or could start on many NFL teams.

 

Obama may be quick, but he seems a bit too skinny to hold up to the rigors of NFL football.

[FilthyBeast]

I don't see this as a new trend if anything because most teams rarely have this kind of depth at one single position.

 

So we all should enjoy this while it last because next year things will likely look a lot different especially since about half these guys are pending FA's after the season and we won't be able to keep them all including Addions, Obada, Hughes, Star.