What they thought in 2017 of McD hire

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, RochesterLifer said:

This is cherry-picking history revisionism. The fact (not hindsight speculation) is that McDermott, teaming very well with Beane, turned a two-decade dysfunctional (dumpster fire) organization into a potential champion through continuous improvement with an exceedingly bright future.

Also, "pseudo-dynasty" means phony dynasty. The Chiefs are working to achieve dynasty status and are off to a solid beginning. There really is nothing phony about them. Dictionary.com is your friend.

 

 

No, it's not revisionist history to suggest that had Anthony Lynn been retained the Bills would have been drafting a QB in round 1.

 

It was a bit of a surprise that McD even retained Tyrod considering that the organization had benched him to end the 2016 season.

 

And it was very surprising that a first year HC passed on the chance to draft a talented QB in round 1 when there was talent on the board.    The excuse the Bills used........about needing more time to assess college QB's.........is one I've never heard a new regime make.    It was a very unorthodox approach and they've paid for it in the short term at least.......the two guys they passed on have ousted them from the playoffs the past two seasons.    And if Watson ends up in Miami.........

 

I've been a fan of every player that the Bills have selected in round 1 since McDermott got here.     That's a much higher approval rating from me than Polian or Butler even so I'm not a hater of their personnel work.   But they were very lucky to get a chance at Josh Allen after passing on Mahomes and Watson.    The amount of chances McD had at a superstar QB in round one of the draft in his first two seasons is unbelievable.    I'm thankful they got Josh,  he was the right pick there,  but it hasn't worked out perfectly yet either.

[Steptide]

I remember many here saying he was the anti-rex. Many were comparing him to a younger jauron, which in hindsight is laughable. Personally I wasn't super excited about it cuz I just didn't know much about him at the time. After they started trading our "good" players (Watkins etc) I thought they were crazy, but obviously all turned out well and I couldn't be happier with the current state of the bills

[nedboy7]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No, it's not revisionist history to suggest that had Anthony Lynn been retained the Bills would have been drafting a QB in round 1.

 

It was a bit of a surprise that McD even retained Tyrod considering that the organization had benched him to end the 2016 season.

 

And it was very surprising that a first year HC passed on the chance to draft a talented QB in round 1 when there was talent on the board.    The excuse the Bills used........about needing more time to assess college QB's.........is one I've never heard a new regime make.    It was a very unorthodox approach and they've paid for it in the short term at least.......the two guys they passed on have ousted them from the playoffs the past two seasons.    And if Watson ends up in Miami.........

 

I've been a fan of every player that the Bills have selected in round 1 since McDermott got here.     That's a much higher approval rating from me than Polian or Butler even so I'm not a hater of their personnel work.   But they were very lucky to get a chance at Josh Allen after passing on Mahomes and Watson.    The amount of chances McD had at a superstar QB in round one of the draft in his first two seasons is unbelievable.    I'm thankful they got Josh,  he was the right pick there,  but it hasn't worked out perfectly yet either.

 

Yeah you right.  We would be so much better with Watson the POS. 

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

With a new HC and GM, there was nothing for Brandon to do with running the team.  Plus, only a few months after McD got there,  Russ "resigned" as the Pegulas had him under investigation for inappropriate behavior.  Pegula gave him a break by letting him resign.

 

Whaley was a dead man walking after both he and Rex didn't deliver a playoff appearance for Pegula.  As he warned them, Pegula canned Rex before the season ended and Whaley went after the draft.  That was Pegula and everyone knew it was coming.

 

As for football staff, every new HC and GM combo is going to bring in new people.  

You’re right… McDermott hasn’t done anything here. 

 

This run of success would’ve just happened naturally like it did between 2000 - 2016 😅

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re right… McDermott hasn’t done anything here. 

 

This run of success would’ve just happened naturally like it did between 2000 - 2016 😅

 

The people who underrate the culture change are short sighted. I have been there and done it at semi-pro level at a club that hadn't won in forever. Nobody there expects to win and as a result there is an acceptance when you don't win. Changing that is darn hard. It took me nearly 3 years  it is like pushing water uphill. The idea that any old coach could have achieved it is asinine IMO. 

[Just in Atlanta]

McD seemed pretty uninspiring to me.

 

They drafted the QB I wanted but the Nathan Peterman experience? Kelvin Benjamin? Some of the early decision making was really poor.

 

I’m so glad we finally have our coach. And a GM to boot.

[BillsFanSD]

I didn't know much about McDermott when the Bills hired him. And frankly, I was just numb to the ongoing dysfunction at that point, so I just resigned myself to another guy who might achieve 7-9 on his way to our every-three-or-four-year housecleaning.  I changed my mind in a hurry during the 2017 season.  So happy I was wrong about this guy.

[Mikie2times]

It really was the shared vision and lack of ego between him and Beane that has made the difference. How many coach/GM combinations are actually friends, sharing the same vision on how to build a team, never in conflict with each other, never fighting for who is the biggest reason things have went well. Then with Terry and Kim, I think they both did a great job in identifying the right people and not micro managing them. We had one of the worst front offices in the NFL for almost 20 years and it really didn't matter the moving parts, it just never fit together. A lot of teams still look just like we used to or like we used to have an owner that gets too involved. 

[BillsFanSD]

41 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No, it's not revisionist history to suggest that had Anthony Lynn been retained the Bills would have been drafting a QB in round 1.

 

It was a bit of a surprise that McD even retained Tyrod considering that the organization had benched him to end the 2016 season.

 

And it was very surprising that a first year HC passed on the chance to draft a talented QB in round 1 when there was talent on the board.    The excuse the Bills used........about needing more time to assess college QB's.........is one I've never heard a new regime make.    It was a very unorthodox approach and they've paid for it in the short term at least.......the two guys they passed on have ousted them from the playoffs the past two seasons.    And if Watson ends up in Miami.........

 

I've been a fan of every player that the Bills have selected in round 1 since McDermott got here.     That's a much higher approval rating from me than Polian or Butler even so I'm not a hater of their personnel work.   But they were very lucky to get a chance at Josh Allen after passing on Mahomes and Watson.    The amount of chances McD had at a superstar QB in round one of the draft in his first two seasons is unbelievable.    I'm thankful they got Josh,  he was the right pick there,  but it hasn't worked out perfectly yet either.

Hold on a second.  Why are we regretting passing on Watson again?

[WMDman]

He was my preferred choice, then i wanted Kris Richard the dc from Seattle 

[Mr. WEO]

59 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re right… McDermott hasn’t done anything here. 

 

This run of success would’ve just happened naturally like it did between 2000 - 2016 😅

Youre not responding to anything that I said, specifically.  I was correcting inaccuracies in another posters post. 
 

But since you’ve stumbled into this convo,  I’ll let you know I agree (again) that McD was the right man for the job.  He took a big risk gutting the roster and it has worked out for the best.   Although, as others have pointed out, his success hinged on Josh.  I would say Allen is at least as pivotal to the culture there as McD—perhaps more so.  A generational talent leading to a lot of wins creates a  lot of “culture”..

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

6 hours ago, DCofNC said:

You act as if all the moves to get Allen were the Head Coach, which is a joke.   He did fall into their laps, there was a lot of chatter that Cleveland was going to take Allen first overall, how different would things have been? Denver could easily have taken him at 5, the Browns dictated that entire draft, not the Bills.  It was a great job by Beane going up and getting the guy they wanted, but he could have just as easily not ended up in Buffalo. 
 

Think back to 04 draft, the Bills couldn’t pull off the trade to get up for Big Ben and wound up the JP, how much better would the team have been fit years in end, had that gone differently?  How much better would the coaches have done with a real QB?

 

If anything, you could argue McD blew the draft before, not taking Maholmes, but you don’t like that take because it doesn’t fit your narrative.  Beane had to make up for it and go get the player they needed.

Beane did his job that draft for sure, but I am 100% sure McD picked Allen.  Allen and Darnold are "process" guys, team-oriented hard workers who focus on football perfection.  Mayfield and Rosen did not have that reputation.  Mayfield was known for partying and Rosen for dissing other players.  Although Mayfield and Darnold were predictably gone, there was shock - shock I tell you - when the Bills picked Allen over Rosen.  All the analytics guys had Rosen by a mile, all the pundits had Rosen by a mile, TBD had Rosen by a mile.  Beane worked his way to get Allen because McD wanted him, against all conventional wisdom to the contrary, and that was genius.  

 

The Mahomes miss has been subject of numerous threads, suffice to say the Bills were not the only team to miss on him, including the Bears who needed a franchise QB and chose Trubisky.  We didnt need a QB because, you know, we had EJ Manual coming into his own, just ask then-GM Doug Whaley.

 

 

[Watkins101]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I would argue that McD would not be shown in a great light we’re it not for Allen emerging.  Funny how a top 5 QB can make people look like a genius.  He came in and did what was expected, got the D on track and they won enough to back into the playoffs, the next year wasn’t so pretty, then JA came on and here we are.  If Allen had turned out to be the wrong Josh, I don’t think you are singing his praises right now.  His overly conservative approach has been taken away by having Josh basically blow it up.  The D has not been great for the majority of the time he’s been here, but has definitely flashed at times.  Overall, the success of a team these days is tied to scoring points, which is pretty much tied to QB play.  A bad coach can make it harder than it has to be, he is not a bad coach.  A good coach can look really good with a QB and I think that’s where you find him.  Good luck to the other new coaches, their future is tied to the QB they have to work with.

The defense has been solid throughout McDermott’s time, with points allowed being in the top half of the league every year except 2018 (19th) and peaked at 2nd in 2019. Currently it is number 1 in points allowed. For yards allowed the team has been 4th in 2019 and 2nd in 2018.

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

No, it's not revisionist history to suggest that had Anthony Lynn been retained the Bills would have been drafting a QB in round 1.

 

It was a bit of a surprise that McD even retained Tyrod considering that the organization had benched him to end the 2016 season.

 

And it was very surprising that a first year HC passed on the chance to draft a talented QB in round 1 when there was talent on the board.    The excuse the Bills used........about needing more time to assess college QB's.........is one I've never heard a new regime make.    It was a very unorthodox approach and they've paid for it in the short term at least.......the two guys they passed on have ousted them from the playoffs the past two seasons.    And if Watson ends up in Miami.........

 

I've been a fan of every player that the Bills have selected in round 1 since McDermott got here.     That's a much higher approval rating from me than Polian or Butler even so I'm not a hater of their personnel work.   But they were very lucky to get a chance at Josh Allen after passing on Mahomes and Watson.    The amount of chances McD had at a superstar QB in round one of the draft in his first two seasons is unbelievable.    I'm thankful they got Josh,  he was the right pick there,  but it hasn't worked out perfectly yet either.

Except the new bills regime was not all on board for that draft. Beanie was not the Bills GM, so it does make sense that they needed more time for the QBs. 

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

A generational talent leading to a lot of wins creates a  lot of “culture”..

 

I disagree with this. I think a generational talent has a lot to do with wins, sure. McDermott's record isn't what it is without Josh Allen. But the people who dismiss culture as something that ultimately just follows the scoreboard really miss the point. Not all winning teams have good culture and not all losing teams have bad ones. Sometimes you can go into a place and succeed without changing the culture but Buffalo needed a culture change. It needed it badly. And delivering it was an important element of the turnaround, even if it wasn't quite as important as finding the franchise Quarterback. 

[wagne591]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I would argue that McD would not be shown in a great light we’re it not for Allen emerging.  Funny how a top 5 QB can make people look like a genius.  He came in and did what was expected, got the D on track and they won enough to back into the playoffs, the next year wasn’t so pretty, then JA came on and here we are.  If Allen had turned out to be the wrong Josh, I don’t think you are singing his praises right now.  His overly conservative approach has been taken away by having Josh basically blow it up.  The D has not been great for the majority of the time he’s been here, but has definitely flashed at times.  Overall, the success of a team these days is tied to scoring points, which is pretty much tied to QB play.  A bad coach can make it harder than it has to be, he is not a bad coach.  A good coach can look really good with a QB and I think that’s where you find him.  Good luck to the other new coaches, their future is tied to the QB they have to work with.

I don't agree with your logic either. When he first got hired it was before Bean was hired and McD's first draft pick was Tre White All-Pro player. And then Bean gutted this team before the season and I thought along with a lot of other people that the Bills were in tank mode...but low and behold they made the playoffs largely in part due to McD's approach to the game and establishing his culture "The Process" for the future.  In McD's first draft without a GM he picked up Tre, Dion, and Milano great draft. His second draft and Bean's first was JA and Edmonds and I am not going to talk about the draft.  Our Defense which you reference above has been very good under McD not lights out but very good and consistent.  I do wish we caused more turnovers and last year int he beginning was not so great but come playoff time they shined.  And like and QB confidence is fragile in the beginning and I don't think they planned on throwing JA in there during his first NFL game but he had to.  And it was because of coaching and sticking to him that his confidence grew and he became the player he is today.  This team they built doesn't not have many superstars on it like all the patriot teams did with Brady and Belicheat but we have a lot of solid NFL players who play for one another and that is also good coaching and leadership.  I think McD is a great coach and will be for years to come. 

[Mr. WEO]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with this. I think a generational talent has a lot to do with wins, sure. McDermott's record isn't what it is without Josh Allen. But the people who dismiss culture as something that ultimately just follows the scoreboard really miss the point. Not all winning teams have good culture and not all losing teams have bad ones. Sometimes you can go into a place and succeed without changing the culture but Buffalo needed a culture change. It needed it badly. And delivering it was an important element of the turnaround, even if it wasn't quite as important as finding the franchise Quarterback. 

with a lesser QB I don’t believe the wind are nearly what they became the past 2 seasons.  Without the wins, whatever the McD cultures began as, changes quickly.  It would be out of his control.  The historic Bills dissatisfaction comes back.  So the culture change was nice….but it wouldn’t sustain the team without Josh Allen
 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

with a lesser QB I don’t believe the wind are nearly what they became the past 2 seasons.  Without the wins, whatever the McD cultures began as, changes quickly.  It would be out of his control.  The historic Bills dissatisfaction comes back.  So the culture change was nice….but it wouldn’t sustain the team without Josh Allen

 

You need a franchise Quarterback for sustained winning, no question, and that is true anywhere in the NFL. In Buffalo you needed culture change too. One without the other would not have got the job done. Especially when their franchise Quarterback was a project who came in raw and needing development.

[JerseyBills]

Perfect example of why I don't read or watch mainstream sports takes. It's literally brain mush. 90%+ on here know more about our team and new players than these frauds on TV and internet. And I trust my opinion over theirs as well 

 

 

[nedboy7]

4 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Perfect example of why I don't read or watch mainstream sports takes. It's literally brain mush. 90%+ on here know more about our team and new players than these frauds on TV and internet. And I trust my opinion over theirs as well 

 

 

 

This is America baby!  Never listen to an expert.  Just go with your gut feeling!! 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I disagree with this. I think a generational talent has a lot to do with wins, sure. McDermott's record isn't what it is without Josh Allen. But the people who dismiss culture as something that ultimately just follows the scoreboard really miss the point. Not all winning teams have good culture and not all losing teams have bad ones. Sometimes you can go into a place and succeed without changing the culture but Buffalo needed a culture change. It needed it badly. And delivering it was an important element of the turnaround, even if it wasn't quite as important as finding the franchise Quarterback. 

 

 

There were a number of factors that lead the turnaround but if you are just splitting it up between the two......

 

90% QB

10% Culture

 

But 10% is a lot.............it's just that it's a QB driven league.

 

The tendency of some might be to disagree with that.........but we saw what culture without belief in the QB position lead to in 2017 where McDermott's defense came apart at the seems for the worst 3 game stretch in team history.     We also saw how terrible they were in 2018 when Allen was going thru his growing pains.   A Teddy Bridge kinda' solution wasn't going to keep that team culture work intact.   Culture sans winning is not a thing.