[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[mannc]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

the post I was responding to said "demand access to their private email and social media history? "

Understood. I just wanted to make clear that those are two totally different animals. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Maybe Goodell doesn't appreciate some of the things that Gruden said about him and is a vindictive $%@$@?

 

That is essentially my explanation given above. 

 

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Regardless of the reason, I don't feel sorry for the guy.  There are armies of middle-aged white men who are seeing the narrative shift on them late in their careers but who frankly should've known better.  I get the "glass houses" thing and I'm not about to defend cancel culture.  But in my experience (and I have a lot of it), the folks who get "cancelled" are usually complete a-holes who have no real allies left because of how they've treated everyone for years and years. They might not deserve to have their reputations sullied, and they might not actually be racists or misogynists, etc., but they probably deserved the comeuppance.   

 

In no narrative, ever, has it been a good idea to be in a career covering in a business and use derogatory language about the head with one of the high-ups.

1 minute ago, mannc said:

Understood. I just wanted to make clear that those are two totally different animals. 

 

Agreed

45 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Hap, they don’t just request, they do it.  It’s part of the hiring culture to check social media.  It’s been done in my industry for years.  I had a buddy who was a fellow manager bring this up to me to check their Facebook a decade ago.  I didn’t, but this isn’t new.  Colleges often check teens social media before acceptance.  This has been common fir a very long time.  I’m actually surprised some have that omg attitude, how can they do that.  They meaning people in authority have been doing stuff like this forverer.  It’s not new at all.

 

They can check the public posts, but they need to be given access to check the private posts.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

I don’t know.  Maybe you and me.  But most people who are famous or work for a large multi-billion dollar company aren’t dumb enough to send emails of this nature even if they privately believe that.  Even with 500,000 emails, Gruden is probably only one dumb enough to put this stuff in an email.  

The other life lesson is delete your emails.  Delete them from the server not just the device. Over time they fall off the back ups and vanish into cyberspace… 

 

There is a good reason corporations have these absolute two year retention policies.  

[uticaclub]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I'm betting that may get changed.

No way, the diversity of the performers outweighs their content. If Gruden wasn't white, no one would care about the emails.

[BuffaloBud]

I'm not going to go through all 26 pages of comments, but what about the people that received these emails?  Why didn't they speak up then?  Aren't they just as responsible by not speaking out?

[MAJBobby]

21 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Maybe Goodell doesn't appreciate some of the things that Gruden said about him and is a vindictive $%@$@?

 

PFT is speculating that the releases have been selective, and that there are more - including, possibly, emails denigrating Mark Davis.  They think Gruden may have resigned before those emails come to light.

 

Regardless of the reason, I don't feel sorry for the guy.  There are armies of middle-aged white men who are seeing the narrative shift on them late in their careers but who frankly should've known better.  I get the "glass houses" thing and I'm not about to defend cancel culture.  But in my experience (and I have a lot of it), the folks who get "cancelled" are usually complete a-holes who have no real allies left because of how they've treated everyone for years and years. They might not deserve to have their reputations sullied, and they might not actually be racists or misogynists, etc., but they probably deserved the comeuppance.   

I don’t feel sorry for him at all either. But then a entire thing from the NFL is shady. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The other life lesson is delete your emails.  Delete them from the server not just the device. Over time they fall off the back ups and vanish into cyberspace… 

 

There is a good reason corporations have these absolute two year retention policies.  

 

Except for the corporations that don't.  In fact I've never heard of an "absolute two year retention policy".  The large corporation I worked for, emails were Forever.

 

There's a reason that the investigation into the WFT was able to access 11 year old emails.

[davefan66]

18 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The other life lesson is delete your emails.  Delete them from the server not just the device. Over time they fall off the back ups and vanish into cyberspace… 

 

There is a good reason corporations have these absolute two year retention policies.  

Yes, deleting old emails is a good idea.  Not because of cases like this, but for housekeeping.  
 

You can delete them all you want.  What about those who received them? What about those who received and printed them?  
 

Recently worked in a hostile environment.  Printed many of my bosses emails in case I needed them at a later date.  Yes, HD’s and servers can be wiped.  Saved emails on other devices or printed can’t be.

 

 

[Rico]

My first take right before he resigned was another hatchet job from the zero-cred NYT… and if we’ve learned anything from OJ, it’s deny, deny, deny. He folded so fast though that I think it’s obvious he’s guilty of saying everything in the e-mails, what an maroon.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

Yes, deleting old emails is a good idea.  Not because of cases like this, but for housekeeping.  
 

You can delete them all you want.  What about those who received them? What about those who received and printed them?  
 

Recently worked in a hostile environment.  Printed many of my bosses emails in case I needed them at a later date.  Yes, HD’s and servers can be wiped.  Saved emails on other devices or printed can’t be.

 

 

Absolutely- it’s a mitigating factor as it reduces one vulnerability vector. It doesn’t solve it all though. It doesn’t seem like it is the case with Gruden but there are certainly examples of thing that were once completely innocuous now considered unacceptable to offensive and it’s not always predictable how it will evolve. 
 

but it’s a completely different process to scour the recipient universe than to dump and search the sender mails. 

 

5 minutes ago, Rico said:

My first take right before he resigned was another hatchet job from the zero-cred NYT… and if we’ve learned anything from OJ, it’s deny, deny, deny. He folded so fast though that I think it’s obvious he’s guilty of saying everything in the e-mails, what an maroon.

Maybe he wanted out because this whole coaching grind is not as much fun as it was on the first tour… 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except for the corporations that don't.  In fact I've never heard of an "absolute two year retention policy".  The large corporation I worked for, emails were Forever.

 

There's a reason that the investigation into the WFT was able to access 11 year old emails.

Our corporation has an absolute two year policy. The EVPs and CEO can’t get their old mails after two years unless they locally stored or printed them. There might be some super secret back up somewhere, but they do this intentionally to protect legal exposer. Every company is different. 
 

It sounds like WFT investigation turned up private emails from JG to Allen, and it’s likely a lot of these IT afterthought type companies don’t have robust retention policy to limit legal risk. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[balln]

7 minutes ago, Rico said:

My first take right before he resigned was another hatchet job from the zero-cred NYT… and if we’ve learned anything from OJ, it’s deny, deny, deny. He folded so fast though that I think it’s obvious he’s guilty of saying everything in the e-mails, what an maroon.

hatchet job / zero cred? so grudens only fault is he didnt deny well enough of things he ACTUALLY did? 

 

🙄

[davefan66]

2 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

I'm not making excuses for Gruden, but the quickness, willingness, and cult-like fervor of finding someone to cancel and cancel culture sickens me more than 10 year old insensitive language.

 

I need to see more facts and information.

 

Already many of the paraphrased or summarized emails have been deceptive and back tracked.

 

Many people who actually knew and worked with John Gruden vehemently deny he is racist and speak highly of his character. That means a lot to me.

 

I have huge privacy concerns about this case, and also need to know more about how and why these personal emails were leaked. 

 

Lastly, this took place a decade ago... 

 

Some of you folks licking your lips about finding fresh meat to cancel...the whole thing is sad.

One thing I’ve noticed since 2016 is how it’s OK to be openly racist, misogynistic and homophobic.  I was stunned at how many of my friends are this way and were just hiding their true feelings.

 

I’m not part of the cancel culture movement.  I just believe we should treat each other with respect regardless of race, color, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or gender identity.  We are all human and deserve to be treated respectfully.

 

If it offends a group of people, then it shouldn’t be happening.  Are there a lot of crazy “cancel culture” things going on?  For sure.  Issue is hatred for others based on skin color, sexual orientation, etc. has gone unchecked for years and does need to stop.

[Wayne Cubed]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except for the corporations that don't.  In fact I've never heard of an "absolute two year retention policy".  The large corporation I worked for, emails were Forever.

 

There's a reason that the investigation into the WFT was able to access 11 year old emails.

 

Yea company I work for now, when a user deletes an email from the email client, it's deleted from that users folder on server but then transferred to 'hidden' folder on the server. There is no rentention policy that I'm aware of, it is in fact forever.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Wayne Cubed

[davefan66]

24 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Absolutely- it’s a mitigating factor as it reduces one vulnerability vector. It doesn’t solve it all though. It doesn’t seem like it is the case with Gruden but there are certainly examples of thing that were once completely innocuous now considered unacceptable to offensive and it’s not always predictable how it will evolve. 
 

but it’s a completely different process to scour the recipient universe than to dump and search the sender mails. 

 

Maybe he wanted out because this whole coaching grind is not as much fun as it was on the first tour… 

True, there we’re things years ago that were considered acceptable that today are not.  But as time goes, and we evolve, those things become unacceptable.  People didn’t really understand at that time that what they were doing was probably inappropriate.     

 

We need to be fluid in these areas and accept others demand for change based on how they are being treated.  
 

What we see happening now is years of unchecked behaviors are being pushed back.  Will there be some overreach?  There is.  Overall, the majority of it is correct.

10 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Yea company I work for now, when a user deletes an email from the email client, it's deleted from that users folder on server but then transferred to 'hidden' folder on the server. There is no rentention policy that I'm aware of, it is in fact forever.

Were I used to work, their email accounts were deleted upon leaving the company, but the emails were converted into smaller files and saved.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by davefan66

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, davefan66 said:

True, there we’re things years ago that were considered acceptable that today are not.  But as time goes, and we evolve, those things become unacceptable.  People didn’t really understand at that time that what they were doing was probably in appropriate.     

 

We need to be fluid in these areas and accept others demand for change based on how they are being treated.  
 

What we see happening now is years of unchecked behaviors are being pushed back.  Will there be some overreach?  There is.  Overall, the majority of it is correct.

Exactly- not here to say right or wrong… it just is.

 

So be cautious and leave as little out there as you can. That high school Halloween party where you dressed up as the village people with some friends in 1996 might be considered highly offensive in 2028 and a fire-able offense. 
 

 

And not saying that applies to Gruden. In the same light. 

[machine gun kelly]

53 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That is essentially my explanation given above. 

 

 

In no narrative, ever, has it been a good idea to be in a career covering in a business and use derogatory language about the head with one of the high-ups.

 

Agreed

 

They can check the public posts, but they need to be given access to check the private posts.

Oh I know.  I’ve seen more than enough college kids on their public pages drinking, doing weed or whatever or even just saying suggestive things and getting dinged for it.  My choice is of I don’t put anything in writing in whatever forum, I have to defend, I’m never worried about anything.  For example, most companies in my industry pay for our Cel. Phones.  It’s part of our business, but that also means they can by their right look at my texts. As an old boss told me all texts or any other written communication is discoverable.  It’s made me conditioned when I need to communicate with someone on my team, I pick up the phone and just say call me back.  Crazy world.  It’s why several of my friends have their company phone and private phone.

[DrDawkinstein]

56 minutes ago, BuffaloBud said:

I'm not going to go through all 26 pages of comments, but what about the people that received these emails?  Why didn't they speak up then?  Aren't they just as responsible by not speaking out?

 

You mean Bruce Allen? May want to do some of your own research on Allen and what an upstanding individual he is. Or isnt.

 

Keep in mind, the NFL was investigating the disgusting office culture of the WFT which was lead by Snyder and Allen when they stumbled across these emails.

 

Gruden's emails arent even the main event.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Oh I know.  I’ve seen more than enough college kids on their public pages drinking, doing weed or whatever or even just saying suggestive things and getting dinged for it.  My choice is of I don’t put anything in writing in whatever forum, I have to defend, I’m never worried about anything.  For example, most companies in my industry pay for our Cel. Phones.  It’s part of our business, but that also means they can by their right look at my texts. As an old boss told me all texts or any other written communication is discoverable.  It’s made me conditioned when I need to communicate with someone on my team, I pick up the phone and just say call me back.  Crazy world.  It’s why several of my friends have their company phone and private phone.

Discoverable meaning they can subpoena the data from your cellular provider in a lawsuit, correct?
 

If you are saying a text you send to your mom from your home WiFi from your personal non work iCloud account on your personal device that you purchased is being logged, I’d be interested to know how.. 

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You mean Bruce Allen? May want to do some of your own research on Allen and what an upstanding individual he is. Or isnt.

 

Keep in mind, the NFL was investigating the disgusting office culture of the WFT which was lead by Snyder and Allen when they stumbled across these emails.

 

Gruden's emails arent even the main event.

Yep- he’s collateral damage… 

[DrDawkinstein]

43 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Except for the corporations that don't.  In fact I've never heard of an "absolute two year retention policy".  The large corporation I worked for, emails were Forever.

 

There's a reason that the investigation into the WFT was able to access 11 year old emails.

 

21 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Yea company I work for now, when a user deletes an email from the email client, it's deleted from that users folder on server but then transferred to 'hidden' folder on the server. There is no rentention policy that I'm aware of, it is in fact forever.

 

Yep, the 2 year policy is just to clean up the server for space so people dont have profiles that are 20GB of junk sitting there. It isnt to protect the user or erase evidence.

 

The emails are still archived and saved elsewhere.