report- Empire State Development downtown stadium proposal

[Nextmanup]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:22 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Tailgating will not be eliminated. But you'll have other options. Imagine having nice hotels located next door for those of us coming from out of town.

It's kind of weird, isn't it?  Trying to teach WNYers how folks behave outside of the WNY bubble...

 

Like why would you want commerce built up around the stadium experience???

 

LOL

[BillStime]

City still wants in on a downtown stadium...

 

Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown

 

 

 

[galept]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

City still wants in on a downtown stadium...

 

Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown

 

 

 

 

Out of sheer ugliness alone I cannot support this.

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, galept said:

 

Out of sheer ugliness alone I cannot support this.

It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof.

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof.

But who's gonna clean the seagull poop?

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, BillStime said:

City still wants in on a downtown stadium...

 

Common Council champions building new Buffalo Bills stadium Downtown

 

 

 

Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? While I no longer live in WNY anymore I’m not sure I would. 

[ColoradoBills]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:48 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

So walking over a bridge is unacceptable? How do people who park on California survive the death march to Southwestern Blvd, with the creek in the way?

 

Thanks Promo.  The image of the "death march" in my minds eye is too funny.

 

On 10/8/2021 at 1:51 PM, Buffalo716 said:

No but like I said it's not going to do much for the bar economy either because we're smart drinkers 

It's a select crowd in Buffalo that party downtown... Buffalonians will absolutely get drunk at home and go to the game rather than bar hop downtown before the game 

 

I know 716 you are not a supporter of the downtown site and have used this no "benefit to the local economy" countless times.

Having fans who come to a teams away game OR Bills fans flying in for the game is a significant number that the downtown would

better serve than OP site.  That's just a fact.  As others have said many "better off financially" fans would skip tailgating.  I know I would.

I would expect the amount of people not tailgating would increase exponentially as the weather got worse.

 

One other thing to consider is the actual building of the stadium.  Contractors and construction crews are not all from the area and they

will need hotels and restaurants when they stay in Buffalo.  They will be much better served downtown than in OP.

 

I still think the stadium (if built downtown) needs to be in the Father Conway Park across the river from Riverworks and the parking lots in

the current abandoned Perry Projects RIGHT NEXT to the 190.

8 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? While I no longer live in WNY anymore I’m not sure I would. 

 

That's where the parking lots should be.  Stadium kitty corner in the park.

[QCity]

18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Would anyone consider that location to be downtown? 

 

It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. 

 

Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material:

 

Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums

 

It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers.

 

TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it.

[SoCal Deek]

48 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. 

 

Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material:

 

Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums

 

It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers.

 

TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it.

My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either.

[red hots]

49 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. 

 

Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material:

 

Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums

 

It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers.

 

TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it.

Why build a new stadium at all then? 

 

[BobbyC81]

18 minutes ago, red hots said:

Why build a new stadium at all then? 

 

Because Roger says we need to.

[beerme1]

2 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Because Roger says we need to.

 

So do I.

[Doc]

Yup.  If they want to keep playing NFL games in Buffalo, a new stadium is needed.  The Ralph is nearing the end.

[BillStime]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either.

 

More downtown than Orchard Park...

 

[Doc]

The most important thing is to make this as cost-effective as possible.  If it's true that stadiums don't add anything at all, there is no need for it to be anywhere specific,so might as well put it in the cheapest place possible.  Again combining it with UB, who also needs a new stadium, would be the smartest thing to do all around, with the only question being whether they have the infrastructure, or the ability to create it reasonably.

[LeGOATski]

18 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

It's only a "what if," not the actual design. We all know it will have a glass roof.

What you're seeing in the picture is ETFE plastic. It's transparent, but can be lit up with designs (such as the Zubaz design in the picture)

 

The new LA stadium and Vikings stadium use this. Apparently, it requires very little maintenance and a "low friction coefficient" so that seagull poop will wash off easily: https://www.archpaper.com/2017/03/etfe-stadiums/

 

The Zubaz thing is funny to me because I jokingly predicted this in a previous stadium thread. 
 
https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/233119-edit-total-cost-to-taxpayers-bills-select-sports-firm-to-represent-ownership-in-building-new-open-air-stadium-in-op-targeted-for-2025/?do=findComment&comment=7250597

Edited October 20, 2021 by LeGOATski

[switz1610]

18 hours ago, QCity said:

 

It's not downtown it's the old first ward, which makes this idea even funnier. 

 

Since we're going to have about 2 more years of these threads before they break ground in Orchard Park, here's some reading material:

 

Sports, Jobs, and Taxes: The Economic Impact of Sports Teams and Stadiums

 

It's written by a Stanford professor emeritus in economics and former senior economist for the President’s Council of Economic Advisers.

 

TLDR - NFL stadiums don't spur economic growth, and in many cases they may actually hinder it.

 

Have you actually read the book or just the amazon teaser? 

 

All of the case study cities listed have built or renovated (Chicago) major stadiums in their downtown area since the book was published over 20 years ago.

Edited October 20, 2021 by switz1610

[Buffalo716]

1 hour ago, switz1610 said:

 

Have you actually read the book or just the amazon teaser? 

 

All of the case study cities listed have built or renovated (Chicago) major stadiums in their downtown area since the book was published over 20 years ago.

I've read multiple studies on new stadiums and the impact on their economy

 

The majority of studies done by  respectable colleges or institutions all say there's a negligible impact on the economy 

 

You build it because you want a football team.. not because you want to revitalize the city

Edited October 20, 2021 by Buffalo716

[corta765]

On 10/7/2021 at 6:34 PM, K-9 said:

 

On 10/7/2021 at 6:21 PM, That's No Moon said:

Dunkirk Don is right about one thing. Follow the money.

 

 

The period of Dunkirk Don was one of the more thrilling and stupid times on TBD.

[SirAndrew]

23 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

My comment/question wasn’t related to economic development but went more to the ‘downtown’ experience that many have championed for downtown Buffalo location. I don’t see how this particular site would spur pregame or postgame restaurant patronage. It seems like it’s a really long way for people to walk, and as depicted doesn’t offer much in the way of tailgating either.

I’ve been a downtown stadium advocate, but admittedly don’t know a lot about what land is available in downtown Buffalo these days. If that’s as good as it gets, no thanks. Nothing looks remotely appealing about that location. It looks like a stadium thrown in a residential city neighborhood, not somewhere I want to hang out for fun. I’ve always known tailgating would suffer downtown, but most NFL downtown stadiums have somewhat decent parking situations/lots. This place has two tiny parking garages in the picture. Chicago and Cleveland for example at least have substantial amounts of ground level parking lots at their stadiums. How far is parking? Would it be like the Carrier Dome in Syracuse where you walk three miles? 

Edited October 20, 2021 by SirAndrew