report- Empire State Development downtown stadium proposal

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

Ahh, so that’s why you like the downtown stadium. I suppose that’s fair. If I didn’t appreciate tailgating, I would be open to a downtown stadium too. I’m just on the opposite fence. I really appreciate the uniqueness of what we have.

 

A few years ago a Boston writer tweeted about how the drive to the Bills stadium is unlike any other in the NFL because the team has to go through thousands of Bills fans to get to the tunnel.

 

We would lose that downtown. Unless the team decided to take the bus a mile away through Ganison just for the heck of it lol.

 

I've been to two games this year: Steelers and Texans. Both games I saw a parade of people so drunk they had to be held up by their friends. And this is before the game. It's not funny anymore. It's sad. Is this the tradition we're trying to preserve?

 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, boater said:

Too bad Buffalo is an economic wasteland and there's about 4 of these people with higher incomes of which you speak.

 

My roofer can't afford downtown, but he can afford OP.

As for your roofer, that is exactly my point. The new stadium will not be for people like him...it is for the professionals making well into the 6 figures.

 

You haven't spent much time in Amherst, or looking at who is buying the hundreds of new houses put in in Lancaster lately?  Sure, were are not loaded with people whos net worth is over $100 million dollars....but in terms of people making 6 figures....I think there are more than you believe there are in the metro Buffalo and Rochester area.

Edited October 8, 2021 by mjd1001

[Einstein]

25 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I've been to two games this year: Steelers and Texans. Both games I saw a parade of people so drunk they had to be held up by their friends. And this is before the game. It's not funny anymore. It's sad. Is this the tradition we're trying to preserve?

 

 

No. But there are thousands of others who do it responsibly.

[boater]

51 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

As for your roofer, that is exactly my point. The new stadium will not be for people like him...it is for the professionals making well into the 6 figures.

 

You haven't spent much time in Amherst, or looking at who is buying the hundreds of new houses put in in Lancaster lately?  Sure, were are not loaded with people whos net worth is over $100 million dollars....but in terms of people making 6 figures....I think there are more than you believe there are in the metro Buffalo and Rochester area.

And that day, my friend, will be when I lose a bit of enthusiasm for the Bills. I remember being a scruffy 20 year old scraping enough together to buy a ticket, park the car and tailgate. I went to Dickies Donuts down the road after. Life was the balls and you didn't have to be a 6-figure.

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, boater said:

And that day, my friend, will be when I lose a bit of enthusiasm for the Bills. I remember being a scruffy 20 year old scraping enough together to buy a ticket, park the car and tailgate. I went to Dickies Donuts down the road after. Life was the balls and you didn't have to be a 6-figure.

Huh? There seem to be more than a few people on here that harbor significant rage against financially successful people. I’m not sure why. No matter how much money I’ve made in my lifetime I’ve NEVER carried any grudge against those more well off. I’ve never even given it a second thought. Here’s a life lesson: Be content in your current circumstance. There'll always be others that are more well healed than you. Good for them! 

[SirAndrew]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

As for your roofer, that is exactly my point. The new stadium will not be for people like him...it is for the professionals making well into the 6 figures.

 

You haven't spent much time in Amherst, or looking at who is buying the hundreds of new houses put in in Lancaster lately?  Sure, were are not loaded with people whos net worth is over $100 million dollars....but in terms of people making 6 figures....I think there are more than you believe there are in the metro Buffalo and Rochester area.

I couldn’t agree more. I don’t want to get into economic politics, because people get too feisty about that, but I’m willing to state the reality. Many metro areas, including Buffalo, have entire suburbs where you need that type of income to afford most homes. You have some middle income people like cops, nurses, and school teachers, but when you belong to that group it seems like everyone else makes significantly more or way less these days. The NFL wants to target that new house in Lancaster crowd. They know the other side of the income spectrum has no disposable income. It’s becoming more of an all or nothing economy. The only issue with the 100K new house crowd is that many are cash poor with mortgages and college debt. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by SirAndrew

[Governor]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

People spending money at the stadium and local businesses? Ever been to a Ravens game? You have tailgating but you also have restaurants hosting pregame parties. Not everyone wants to grill and chug beer.

Agree. I’d rather hang out in a cool bar pre-game, then just walk across the street and go in like some of the others.

8 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I couldn’t agree more. I don’t want to get into economic politics, because people get too feisty about that, but I’m willing to state the reality. Many metro areas, including Buffalo, have entire suburbs where you need that type of income to afford most homes. You have some middle income people like cops, nurses, and school teachers, but when you belong to that group it seems like everyone else makes significantly more or way less these days. The NFL wants to target that new house in Lancaster crowd. They know the other side of the income spectrum has no disposable income. It’s becoming more of an all or nothing economy. The only issue with the 100K new house crowd is that many are cash poor with mortgages and college debt. 

True but there’s usually 2 incomes per household. 100k is probably on the low end these days for home owners.

[Rochesterfan]

8 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Downtown Buffalo is already developed and being developed.. it's not the east side

 

There are already tons of mom and pop shops and Bodegas downtown .. I was in downtown Pittsburgh yesterday.. downtown Buffalo has way more going on

 

And new stadiums have already been shown to not help the local economy... You never get back what you put in

 

It will never pay for itself, but you get a lot more potentially out of it downtown than in OP.

 

OP bring you zero income outside of the game.  Downtown brings significantly more places and people to spend money on what is already present.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

7 hours ago, boater said:

Okie dokey. If NY wants to dictate the location, then NY foots the majority of the stadium cost. It works no other way.

 

The major financier gets their choice of location.

 

I guarantee: The Bills are not financing a stadium in a location against their wishes. They want Orchard Park.

 

I'm sure the Bills would accept a downtown stadium, as long as they aren't the wallet being pick-pocketed.

 

Two things -

 

1) I am not sure the owners really want OP over downtown - I believe based upon the proposed costs that they felt Downtown was going to be more expensive than they were willing to deal with.

 

2.) NYS and the county are going to foot the majority of the bill either way.  If the state can use infrastructure funds to help with the cost of infrastructure around the stadium - then it becomes an input of federal, state, and local money - mixing with private funds from the NFL and the Pegula’s.

 

We will see, but I think they would be ecstatic if the county and state came through to fund a downtown stadium.

 

 

 

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Two things -

 

1) I am not sure the owners really want OP over downtown - I believe based upon the proposed costs that they felt Downtown was going to be more expensive than they were willing to deal with.

 

2.) NYS and the county are going to foot the majority of the bill either way.  If the state can use infrastructure funds to help with the cost of infrastructure around the stadium - then it becomes an input of federal, state, and local money - mixing with private funds from the NFL and the Pegula’s.

 

We will see, but I think they would be ecstatic if the county and state came through to fund a downtown stadium.

 

 

 

Good post.  If pegulas say Orchard Park, then NYS says downtown, there will be a heckuva lot less hemming and hawing about how much pegulas are benefitting from a downtown stadium.  

[Buffalo716]

19 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

It will never pay for itself, but you get a lot more potentially out of it downtown than in OP.

 

OP bring you zero income outside of the game.  Downtown brings significantly more places and people to spend money on what is already present.

 

 

I've never said I'm against a downtown stadium

 

But if the cost is significantly more than an orchard Park I don't want the taxpayers hit over the head 

 

And they already have the infrastructure in orchard Park which is not in place downtown..  they can literally build in a lot while the current stadium is being played in

 

I was in downtown Pittsburgh the other day.. and I'll tell you what.. it was dead.. all mom and pop shops were gone..  downtown Buffalo has had a slow proper revitalization over the last 20 years

 

Tons of boutiques and Mom and Pop shops...  The city's been on up and up

 

I just want the bills to stay in Buffalo forever

 

 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, Mat68 said:

I agree.  Benefits the state to put the stadiun down town and possible dome.  It benefits the Bills to keep it in Orchard park. 

 

Totally disagree - I think keeping it in OP benefits the Bills the least.  The absolute worst thing for the Bills stadium is pre-game tailgating.  People eat their own food and drink their own drinks - giving no money to the team and having them spend less in the stadium.

 

People park in private lots taking money from the parking funds.

 

The best thing would be to build something downtown and have many local breweries and pubs partnering up and having better and more food and drink choices associated with the stadium both inside and out.

Some people have said the Bills fans are smart - others said cheap - the truth is they have had the tailgating and private lots since the stadium opened and that cuts a significant portion of revenue that other teams generate.  
 

I expect that even if the stadium is finally built in OP - there will be changes created that limit people parking in private lots by including parking in ticket packages.  I would also expect them to change hours to limit tailgating and drinking in the lots before and after - to drive more internal sales.

 

I think the entire game day experience changes with a new stadium - no matter where it is built.

 

[purple haze]

19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

2014: Same study by same company looking at exactly the same site.

If that’s the case what’s the point of doing it again?  Would circumstances have changed that much?   Seems like a waste of money.   

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

It's a given something OP will get you nothing back.

nonsense! Someone was paid good money to point across the street!

What are the odds that 50 years after they decided the best option was that location in Orchard Park the best option is across the street?

[SoCal Deek]

I still believe the Amherst location makes a lot of sense for so many reasons. But in the end I don’t think it makes all that much difference really. Wherever it goes it’ll become the NEW home of the Buffalo Bills…just like OP did fifty years ago. Nobody thought that made much sense, and was actually a huge compromise solution in the early 70’s, and now fast forward to these threads and you find people who’d sooner die than give up the current location. It’s all relative through the prism of time.

[Doc]

43 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I still believe the Amherst location makes a lot of sense for so many reasons. But in the end I don’t think it makes all that much difference really. Wherever it goes it’ll become the NEW home of the Buffalo Bills…just like OP did fifty years ago. Nobody thought that made much sense, and was actually a huge compromise solution in the early 70’s, and now fast forward to these threads and you find people who’d sooner die than give up the current location. It’s all relative through the prism of time.

Putting it in Amherst would mean they wouldn’t have to build two separate stadiums for the Bills and Bulls, saving taxpayers a lot of money. And that could allow them to build a bigger and/or better and/or roofed stadium.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Putting it in Amherst would mean they wouldn’t have to build two separate stadiums for the Bills and Bulls, saving taxpayers a lot of money. And that could allow them to build a bigger and/or better and/or roofed stadium.

Exactly 

And just as important it gives the STATE not the CITY or COUNTY a convenient excuse/reason to help with substantial funding. 

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Exactly 

And just as important it gives the STATE not the CITY or COUNTY a convenient excuse/reason to help with substantial funding. 

Yup. 

[BillStime]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:17 PM, Beast said:

 

OK, so what about that will make the gamday experience better?

 

A Bills WIN!

 

 

[BillStime]

On 10/7/2021 at 8:54 PM, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Pretty big statement top make with no data to back it up!   Sure not everyone wants to go to a restaurant, but a good number may if they had the choice especially in December when snowing or raining real hard.  Today they don't have the option so no way of knowing.

 

Actually one could argue, do people tailgate at Sabres games?  Or do they go to restaurants?  If so that proves that's what people really want.  Does this really prove anything, no!  But is a nice way to use some data to back a preconceived conclusion. 

 

Agreed. Went to the Bills - Steelers Sunday Night Football game in Pittsburgh in2019 - tailgated for an hour and then went into the Casino right next door to the casino to warm up before the game because it was butttttt@#$ cold that night.  WIN-WIN