Buffalo Sabres and NHL 2021-2022

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

They played three teams that aren't winning.  Its hard to say who is good and who sucks the first 20 games.  3 years ago the Sabres were leading the NHL in points and St Louis was in last place around the 25 game mark.  We were all having a nice laugh at that loser ROR for jumping ship just before the big leap... 

 

Its a long season.  

 

It is, but I'm pretty confident with that label for at least Montreal and Arizona.  Anyone who enters the season planning on using Carter Hutton as your #1 automatically jumps to the top of that list.

[May Day 10]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

They played three teams that aren't winning.  Its hard to say who is good and who sucks the first 20 games.  3 years ago the Sabres were leading the NHL in points and St Louis was in last place around the 25 game mark.  We were all having a nice laugh at that loser ROR for jumping ship just before the big leap... 

 

Its a long season.  

 

While I am also a skeptic...

 

The bright side, is maybe we can look at multiple teams who are worse than Buffalo.  That is an improvement.  Most seasons the Sabres cant look down on anybody

[Jrb1979]

13 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

While I am also a skeptic...

 

The bright side, is maybe we can look at multiple teams who are worse than Buffalo.  That is an improvement.  Most seasons the Sabres cant look down on anybody

Question for you. If the play this style of hockey all season but still finish bottom 5 would that be good enough for you?  

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

While I am also a skeptic...

 

The bright side, is maybe we can look at multiple teams who are worse than Buffalo.  That is an improvement.  Most seasons the Sabres cant look down on anybody

One thing that gives me hope is that these past 3 wins they have looked like the better team and flat out dominated in 2 of 3.  That crazy run they went on 3 years ago they were almost always outshot, out chanced, out played but had some lucky breaks with games regularly coming down to OT and Shootout.  It was fun but I think we all knew that it was not sustainable.  Winning 5 v 5 is sustainable but we will see how they fare once teams settle in and we face more talented opponents.

[BillsFan4]

4 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

@BillsFan4 what's with the eye roll? Bills fans had no issue sticking around when they sucked. 

I took offense to you telling any Sabres fans whether they can or can’t be fans. Or trying to make them feel like bandwagon fans if they decide to start supporting their team again. Especially with the massive **** show the team has been for years now. It’s not the fans fault that this team has been destroyed and the fans have been driven away. Notice how empty the arena has been?

No loyal Sabres fan should be knocked for their lack of support for this team.

This team has been run into the ground. A once proud team and fan base is now an NHL punching bag/laughing stock. 

 

I attended games and watched every game for a long time. It’s been 10 straight years of losing. 10 years of bottom 10 finishes. I took a lot of pride in the Sabres always icing a competitive team, even despite all the budget restrictions of past owners. Hockey was always my #1 sport. Played for much of my life.

 

Even though I didn’t like the idea of tanking for McDavid/Eichel I supported it. I watched every single game through the tank years. I had hope for the future.

 

These past few years have been literally killing my love for the game.

and Last year pretty much broke me. I had to stop watching. It hurt too much.

 

 

Maybe Kevyn Adams and Don Granato are the guys that get it turned around. I do have some hope that they are. I really like what I’ve seen and heard from Granato so far. I think he’s showing that he deserves time and to coach a team with more talent.

 

I loved the return Kevyn Adams got on Ristolainen, and I like that so far he hasn’t caved in and traded Eichel for a mediocre return.

 

But Its going to take time for me to buy back in. I’ve been burned too many times. I’ve been watching the games but I don’t know that I’ll continue to. It all depends on their play. Whether I decide to support them will be decided by them. 

 

This isn’t the first hot start or winning streak in recent years. Remember that 10 game winning streak under Housley where they were playing with crazy effort?

Remember the start to the 2019-20 season under Krueger? They started out 7-1-1, and 9-2-2. Everyone was talking about how Krueger was the right guy and how fun his system was to watch. Then they fell straight off a cliff, lost 6 in a row and just kept spiraling.

 

This season they have what’s pretty much universally considered a bottom 5 roster in the NHL. The Sabres traded or are trading both of their best players (Reinhart and Eichel) and did nothing to replace them (so far. Let’s see what the Eichel trade brings). They don’t have a single proven top 6 C on the roster. Their #1 goalie is 40 and was about to retire because no team offered him a job. We’re relying on young kids with no experience and who have never shown they can be top 6 players in the NHL. We have no one on the roster to help them if they struggle.

Kevyn Adams was hired as the GM without even as much as a single other interview being held despite having no experience in an NHL front office. His main qualification? The owners knew him.

He came in and fired 2/3rds of the hockey ops staff as the owners talked about their new “lean and efficient” plan. They had the least amount of scouts in the NHL last season and went back to the Darcy/Golisano days of relying on video scouting. They didn’t even have any scouts for some entire leagues last season. Thankfully Adams has started to slowly fill back out his staff. But it’s still a small staff by NHL standards.

Now, I’m not saying that some of those moves weren’t/aren’t necessary (like trading Eichel) or that there aren’t reasons for hope but It’s going to take more than a few fun wins to get much of this fan base back to their previous levels of support for the Sabres, and rightfully so. 

You’re 100% bought in and seem to agree with every move the Sabres make and that’s fine. But you shouldn’t expect every other fan to have the same level of belief in this team.

 

and BTW, I started losing interest in the Bills as well during their decades of losing. I stopped attending games. I had lost all faith in Ralph Wilson and my interest in the team was about at the level my current interest in the Sabres. But the ownership change gave me hope again and the McDermott hire got me to buy back in because I was a huge fan of his from his time in carolina.

 

The Bills and Sabres will always be my #1 teams but that doesn’t mean I have to blindly support them.

[May Day 10]

38 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

Question for you. If the play this style of hockey all season but still finish bottom 5 would that be good enough for you?  

 

If you mean by this style of hockey = outplaying the other teams?  Sure.  That would likely mean more than bottom-5 wins though unless the goaltending craters, in which case I guess it would be nice that the skaters are looking so good... but on the other hand, maddening because after 2 offseasons, why does Adyms have this as our goaltending tandem?, especially if the skaters played playoff-caliber hockey.

 

Not to sound too Neanderthal, but the goal is winning.  Im not going to buy off that we are in year 1 or 2 of a 5 year rebuilding plan, because that is what the Sabres have been selling for about 8 years now.  They ran out of that currency/patience with me and many others. 

I get that they cant go 82-0-0.... and even if everything clicks, a playoff spot is a long-shot...  But IMO, a successful season would be finishing ahead of Ottawa, Detroit, and Montreal for starters, along with this upside we have seen in the first 3 games on a somewhat consistent basis.  To their credit, they have taken care of the first 3 games of the road.  

 

Im not going to give them any sort of pass that they have a terrible roster.  It is their fault they have a terrible roster.  It isnt/wasnt brought on them by some external force, and certainly not the fans' fault.  Kevyn Adams is into his second season, and the Sabres have not interviewed anyone for the General Manager position since the Spring of 2017 (2 last overall finishes ago).  

[Jrb1979]

23 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

If you mean by this style of hockey = outplaying the other teams?  Sure.  That would likely mean more than bottom-5 wins though unless the goaltending craters, in which case I guess it would be nice that the skaters are looking so good... but on the other hand, maddening because after 2 offseasons, why does Adyms have this as our goaltending tandem?, especially if the skaters played playoff-caliber hockey.

 

Not to sound too Neanderthal, but the goal is winning.  Im not going to buy off that we are in year 1 or 2 of a 5 year rebuilding plan, because that is what the Sabres have been selling for about 8 years now.  They ran out of that currency/patience with me and many others. 

I get that they cant go 82-0-0.... and even if everything clicks, a playoff spot is a long-shot...  But IMO, a successful season would be finishing ahead of Ottawa, Detroit, and Montreal for starters, along with this upside we have seen in the first 3 games on a somewhat consistent basis.  To their credit, they have taken care of the first 3 games of the road.  

 

Im not going to give them any sort of pass that they have a terrible roster.  It is their fault they have a terrible roster.  It isnt/wasnt brought on them by some external force, and certainly not the fans' fault.  Kevyn Adams is into his second season, and the Sabres have not interviewed anyone for the General Manager position since the Spring of 2017 (2 last overall finishes ago).  

The goalie tandem is set this way to buy time til UPL is ready. I do think they some great players coming up. I expect next season to be the one they breakout if UPL is ready. Quinn and Powers should be on the roster next season. 

[Jrb1979]

52 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I took offense to you telling any Sabres fans whether they can or can’t be fans. Or trying to make them feel like bandwagon fans if they decide to start supporting their team again. Especially with the massive **** show the team has been for years now. It’s not the fans fault that this team has been destroyed and the fans have been driven away. Notice how empty the arena has been?

No loyal Sabres fan should be knocked for their lack of support for this team.

This team has been run into the ground. A once proud team and fan base is now an NHL punching bag/laughing stock. 

 

I attended games and watched every game for a long time. It’s been 10 straight years of losing. 10 years of bottom 10 finishes. I took a lot of pride in the Sabres always icing a competitive team, even despite all the budget restrictions of past owners. Hockey was always my #1 sport. Played for much of my life.

 

Even though I didn’t like the idea of tanking for McDavid/Eichel I supported it. I watched every single game through the tank years. I had hope for the future.

 

These past few years have been literally killing my love for the game.

and Last year pretty much broke me. I had to stop watching. It hurt too much.

 

 

Maybe Kevyn Adams and Don Granato are the guys that get it turned around. I do have some hope that they are. I really like what I’ve seen and heard from Granato so far. I think he’s showing that he deserves time and to coach a team with more talent.

 

I loved the return Kevyn Adams got on Ristolainen, and I like that so far he hasn’t caved in and traded Eichel for a mediocre return.

 

But Its going to take time for me to buy back in. I’ve been burned too many times. I’ve been watching the games but I don’t know that I’ll continue to. It all depends on their play. Whether I decide to support them will be decided by them. 

 

This isn’t the first hot start or winning streak in recent years. Remember that 10 game winning streak under Housley where they were playing with crazy effort?

Remember the start to the 2019-20 season under Krueger? They started out 7-1-1, and 9-2-2. Everyone was talking about how Krueger was the right guy and how fun his system was to watch. Then they fell straight off a cliff, lost 6 in a row and just kept spiraling.

 

This season they have what’s pretty much universally considered a bottom 5 roster in the NHL. The Sabres traded or are trading both of their best players (Reinhart and Eichel) and did nothing to replace them (so far. Let’s see what the Eichel trade brings). They don’t have a single proven top 6 C on the roster. Their #1 goalie is 40 and was about to retire because no team offered him a job. We’re relying on young kids with no experience and who have never shown they can be top 6 players in the NHL. We have no one on the roster to help them if they struggle.

Kevyn Adams was hired as the GM without even as much as a single other interview being held despite having no experience in an NHL front office. His main qualification? The owners knew him.

He came in and fired 2/3rds of the hockey ops staff as the owners talked about their new “lean and efficient” plan. They had the least amount of scouts in the NHL last season and went back to the Darcy/Golisano days of relying on video scouting. They didn’t even have any scouts for some entire leagues last season. Thankfully Adams has started to slowly fill back out his staff. But it’s still a small staff by NHL standards.

Now, I’m not saying that some of those moves weren’t/aren’t necessary (like trading Eichel) or that there aren’t reasons for hope but It’s going to take more than a few fun wins to get much of this fan base back to their previous levels of support for the Sabres, and rightfully so. 

You’re 100% bought in and seem to agree with every move the Sabres make and that’s fine. But you shouldn’t expect every other fan to have the same level of belief in this team.

 

and BTW, I started losing interest in the Bills as well during their decades of losing. I stopped attending games. I had lost all faith in Ralph Wilson and my interest in the team was about at the level my current interest in the Sabres. But the ownership change gave me hope again and the McDermott hire got me to buy back in because I was a huge fan of his from his time in carolina.

 

The Bills and Sabres will always be my #1 teams but that doesn’t mean I have to blindly support them.

To be honest what bothers me is not so much you don't want to watch them right now due to them not being good. What bothers me is those who only look at the box score and say look they lost again. Same old Sabres. 

 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

Question for you. If the play this style of hockey all season but still finish bottom 5 would that be good enough for you?  

Personally, I'm good with playing this style of hockey, developing the younger players, and ending up with a top three pick. 

[May Day 10]

I don't think anybody is doing that because they haven't lost yet

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

One thing that gives me hope is that these past 3 wins they have looked like the better team and flat out dominated in 2 of 3.  That crazy run they went on 3 years ago they were almost always outshot, out chanced, out played but had some lucky breaks with games regularly coming down to OT and Shootout.  It was fun but I think we all knew that it was not sustainable.  Winning 5 v 5 is sustainable but we will see how they fare once teams settle in and we face more talented opponents.

So true. A flukier 10 game winning streak has never been seen. Fun as hell, but fluky AF. The favorable analytics we are seeing currently directly reflect the style of play we’ve seen so far. That style of play should be rewarded. Sometimes it isn’t like when an opposing goalie steals a game or the puck luck just isn’t there, but more often than not, that tenacity on the ice is rewarded. 

Edited October 20, 2021 by K-9

[BillsFan4]

31 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

To be honest what bothers me is not so much you don't want to watch them right now due to them not being good. What bothers me is those who only look at the box score and say look they lost again. Same old Sabres. 

 

 

I get the general idea of what you are saying and I Know you are a passionate Sabres fan and that’s why it bothers you. But just remember, most of us are (or were) passionate fans too. Otherwise the losing wouldn’t bother us so much. There’s a lot of passionate hockey fans like me that have been broken by all of the losing and complete ineptitude. It’s hard when you see your favorite team making the same damn mistakes over and over again (and that goes for the front office and on the ice). We all want them to be good, that’s for sure.

 

and as I mentioned I have been watching the games and it’ll be up to them if I continue. I like the fight they’ve shown and I’ll continue watching as long as they continue to play well.
 

But I just have no patience left for bad Sabres hockey. I’d rather not watch than torture myself. I can tolerate losses if they continue to fight hard and make games exciting. But it’s going to be hard for me to feel like another bottom 3 finish is progress (despite the lack of talent). It’ll be easier to live with if we see true growth from our young players though, and if we win the lottery (Shane Wright could be better than Eichel/Matthews...). But I’d rather make the playoffs or even just be in the hunt. I don’t see where another bottom finish is good for any Sabres player or the new culture they want to build. I think winning probably even outweighs Shane Wright (as amazing as he looks). 

[BillsFan4]

 

he’s highly regarded in the analytics community. 
 

Seems like the Sabres are going all-in in analytics, which I think can be a good thing as long as it’s backed up/balanced by traditional scouting.

We saw what happened when Florida and Arizona relied solely on analytics.

Analytics are a big piece of the puzzle but they can’t see everything.

 

I’m all for a new approach though. The Sabres scouting/drafting has left a lot to be desired. 
 

edit - more praise from the analytics community:

 

 

Edited October 21, 2021 by BillsFan4

[K-9]

19 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

he’s highly regarded in the analytics community. 
 

Seems like the Sabres are going all-in in analytics, which I think can be a good thing as long as it’s backed up/balanced by traditional scouting.

We saw what happened when Florida and Arizona relied solely on analytics.

Analytics are a big piece of the puzzle but they can’t see everything.

 

I’m all for a new approach though. The Sabres scouting/drafting has left a lot to be desired. 
 

edit - more praise from the analytics community:

 

 

But, but the Pegulas…something, something clueless KA and lackeys. 

[BillsFan4]

 

@shrader this is one of the games I was talking about that is only on ESPN +.

 

 

[May Day 10]

18 hours ago, K-9 said:

But, but the Pegulas…something, something clueless KA and lackeys. 

 

This hire means nothing.  Until they get something right at least.

 

 

To me, analytics in hockey seems to be have a lower value than the other 4 major north american sports.  The nature of hockey doesnt lend itself to the world of analytics.  It seems Im always hearing about players' performances going against what their analytics say, or 'analytics darlings' not doing much at all (Mark Pysyk comes to mind).

I do think it is a tool to be used for sure.  But you aren't going to moneyball hockey.  There are too many variables.  Mental makeup, playing hurt/b2b nights, chemistry, line partners, bounces.  Not to mention the amateurs are playing in very different leagues/levels, and in some cases different rules/playing surface.   

Valuable data comes out of advanced numbers for sure... but I really hope the Sabres arent going to stake the basis of their amateur and pro scouting on analytics.   

[K-9]

3 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

This hire means nothing.  Until they get something right at least.

 

 

To me, analytics in hockey seems to be have a lower value than the other 4 major north american sports.  The nature of hockey doesnt lend itself to the world of analytics.  It seems Im always hearing about players' performances going against what their analytics say, or 'analytics darlings' not doing much at all (Mark Pysyk comes to mind).

I do think it is a tool to be used for sure.  But you aren't going to moneyball hockey.  There are too many variables.  Mental makeup, playing hurt/b2b nights, chemistry, line partners, bounces.  Not to mention the amateurs are playing in very different leagues/levels, and in some cases different rules/playing surface.   

Valuable data comes out of advanced numbers for sure... but I really hope the Sabres arent going to stake the basis of their amateur and pro scouting on analytics.   

Let’s just cut to the chase: everything they do means nothing to you until they “get something right.” 
 

I agree with much of what you say about analytics. But regardless of my take on analytics, if you’re gonna hire somebody in the field, it may as well be a good hire and this appears to be just that. His reputation in the field precedes him. 

[TBBills]

On 10/21/2021 at 3:55 PM, K-9 said:

But, but the Pegulas…something, something clueless KA and lackeys. 

Only 6 more years till the Sabres make the playoffs.

[Beast]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Only 6 more years till the Sabres make the playoffs.

Strange that you’re here talking about the Sabres when you don’t like them.

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

Strange that you’re here talking about the Sabres when you don’t like them.

Difference between liking a team and hating the way the people in charge have been running it.

Edited October 23, 2021 by TBBills