Spencer Brown - will he start on the OL? (Update - Yes)

[TheyCallMeAndy]

1 minute ago, DCbillsfan said:

Yes.  94 Daron Payne.  Beat Ford consistently off the snap.  Ford needs to work on getting off the snap better.  Doesn't matter how strong you are if your guy is consistently beating you on the snap.  

Holy crap, Payne is a great player and Brown tossed him around like a PO’d bouncer. 

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Alex Boone was 6”8 I believe.

Ohio State is playing 4 OTs on the OL and I hate it. “Best 5” 🙄

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

Ohio State is playing 4 OTs on the OL and I hate it. “Best 5” 🙄

How is the line doing this year so far?

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

How is the line doing this year so far?

The “guards” are too tall and can’t pull. They have too many good OTs and want them all to play so they don’t transfer, it’s annoying because it’s not that simple, what amounts to 4 left tackles and a center out there 

[clayboy54]

Typically, you don't put long and tall men at guard. Their length seldom translates to the guard position. This is due to both the working area as well as their leverage. Long and tall men operate best with more space at a position where low leverage is not as important. This position on the OL is tackle.

 

That said, freak athletes may defy traditional thought here. It is generally thought to be a bad idea, though. Maybe someone with OL experience could chime in about this.

[Doc]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

The first two weeks Williams struggled so would have been easy to slide him in there, however this past week Williams was very good.  Ford started the year out good, but did struggle the last game.

 

Think will depend on what happens as year goes on.  If Williams struggles, easy one for one replacement.  If Ford becomes the weak link, could try and slide Williams into Fords spot and play Brown at RT.  But wondering if Williams at guard would be any better after as long as he's played tackle here.

 

If Ford doesn't get better, I can see Boettger in there before I see them moving Williams there.  He wasn't good in Carolina when moved to OG, but that could have been the lingering effects of his injury.  Maybe he's gotten better?  I guess we'll find out.

[hemma]

Not that Brown should be directly compared to Pears, but Pears was a decent RT that became part of a horrid OL when Marrone moved him to RG.

 

Hate to screw this guy up at the very beginning of his career.

[Logic]

I wonder if "sooner rather than later" means 2022, as opposed to the 2023 timeline that many assumed.

It's hard to imagine Brown taking Williams' spot unless Williams seriously starts struggling. I thought he looked really good against WFT and Chase Young in particular.

Meanwhile, Brown doesn't seem to be a guard -- nor do I think the staff would want to put him there -- and Williams was terrible as a guard in Carolina.

IF Brown starts this season, it'll either be because he outplays Williams and takes his job or due to injury at one of the two tackle spots. Otherwise, I can see it being quite possible, and even likely, that Brown takes over at RT in 2022 and Williams is cut for cap savings.

Edit: What I'm really hoping is that Tommy Doyle winds up being worth a damn, too, because then we'd be in a really good place with tackle depth. I'm not so sure how often fifth round offensive tackles go on to have long, productive careers, though.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Logic

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

I wonder if "sooner rather than later" means 2022, as opposed to the 2023 timeline that many assumed.

It's hard to imagine Brown taking Williams' spot unless Williams seriously starts struggling. I thought he looked really good against WFT and Chase Young in particular.

Meanwhile, Brown doesn't seem to be a guard -- nor do I think the staff would want to put him there -- and Williams was terrible as a guard in Carolina.

IF Brown starts this season, it'll either be because he outplays Williams and takes his job or due to injury at one of the two tackle spots. Otherwise, I can see it being quite possible, and even likely, that Brown takes over at RT in 2022 and Williams is cut for cap savings.

Edit: What I'm really hoping is that Tommy Doyle winds up being worth a damn, too, because then we'd be in a really good place with tackle depth. I'm not so sure how often fifth round offensive tackles go on to have long, productive careers, though.

 

It would have been nice if Anderson had stuck and developed.  What they need more than anything is good G/C play.  

 

And the bolded is probably what he meant.  But again, you can't predict injuries and Williams just came off an excellent performance.

[BigAl2526]

12 hours ago, gonzo1105 said:

I think he was drafted to eventually replace Daryl Williams. It makes sense small school high end raw prospect who can replace Williams who is on a 3 year contract but the struggle at the guard position and Browns faster development than expected makes me think by mid season you will see:

 

LT-Dawkins

LG- Feliciano

C-Morse

RG-Williams

RT-Brown

I'm going the other way.  Daryl Williams was not all that effective when he tried to play guard..  Obviously, at 6'8" Spencer Brown is not built to be a guard.  However, with his elite athleticism for the tackle position, I think he looks more like a left tackle.  I think the Bills might move Dawkins to guard, and install Brown at the left tackle spot.  They leave Daryl Williams on the right.  Obviously, it will help if Tommy Doyle can develop into a swing tackle.

[Bangarang]

7 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

I'm going the other way.  Daryl Williams was not all that effective when he tried to play guard..  Obviously, at 6'8" Spencer Brown is not built to be a guard.  However, with his elite athleticism for the tackle position, I think he looks more like a left tackle.  I think the Bills might move Dawkins to guard, and install Brown at the left tackle spot.  They leave Daryl Williams on the right.  Obviously, it will help if Tommy Doyle can develop into a swing tackle.

Why would they move someone who they know can play LT at a high level for a complete unknown? Has Brown ever even played LT? Moving Dion inside looks sounds like a huge mistake. 

[Doc]

Then again, Jonathan Ogden was 6'9" and played OG for a year.

[billsfan89]

I think Brown will only start if there is an injury at a tackle position. I think if Ford is deemed by the coaching staff to struggle they toss Ike in. I don't know why people sleep on Ike, I thought the O-line played best last season when it was Dawkins-Ike-Mitch-Mongo-Williams. Ike didn't light the world on fire but he was solid and was far from a weak link. I tend to trust this coaching staff and their analysis of players so if they feel Ford is decent enough or will find his footing I am OK with him being there. But I am curious if they maybe play Ike there if Ford is deemed to be struggling. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by billsfan89

[muppy]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

not just a one time thing either

PANCAKE

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Keep him as swing OT, develop him at RT and then have him replace Williams when the time is right (if they cut him after the season, it's a $3.6M cap hit, which is manageable, but unless he's not playing well, not worth it).  Why rush it?

 

If they cut him before June 1 it's a $3.6 million dead cap hit all in 2022 but they save $5.3 million on the cap in that scenario. Or if they cut him post June 1 they can spread the dead cap out, $1.8 million in 2022 and 2023. So there is some flexibility built in. If Spencer Brown continues to look the part there's no sense in paying Darryl Williams when an equal or better replacement is waiting in the wings. If Williams keeps playing well maybe we can even get a decent draft pick back in a trade next offseason. Free up some cap and get a pick back without missing a beat.

[Mango]

The only way I see Brown starting at either tackle position (assuming everybody is healthy) is if Dawkins or Williams kicks inside and Brown takes one of the tackle positions. 

I guess in theory you could do it. After this year Dawkins would be in the 5-10 range for top paid guards so it isn't totally wild to move a guy with that contract inside. Williams would be cheap in 2022 and has experience at guard in the NFL.

 

Feels like a weird move you make in Madden because of ratings, etc. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by Mango

[gdabillsfan]

7 hours ago, Buddo said:

That clip just above these posts doesn’t show Brown at guard, at all. Looks to me that he’s lined up outside RT

Fwiw, he was named tackle eligible a couple of times last Sunday, and they may be thinking of using him, in those types of situations 

 

Absolutely agree. They have brought him in as eligible when they are running heavy sets, and he's been great. I wonder how he does catching the pass, that is one big dude to tackle.

[ColoradoBills]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

If they cut him before June 1 it's a $3.6 million dead cap hit all in 2022 but they save $5.3 million on the cap in that scenario. Or if they cut him post June 1 they can spread the dead cap out, $1.8 million in 2022 and 2023. So there is some flexibility built in. If Spencer Brown continues to look the part there's no sense in paying Darryl Williams when an equal or better replacement is waiting in the wings. If Williams keeps playing well maybe we can even get a decent draft pick back in a trade next offseason. Free up some cap and get a pick back without missing a beat.

 

DWs contract definitely could be tradeable.  One detail to consider is he gets $4.35M guaranteed 2023 Salary on the 5th day of 2022.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/daryl-williams-16828/

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Why would they move someone who they know can play LT at a high level for a complete unknown? Has Brown ever even played LT? Moving Dion inside looks sounds like a huge mistake. 

100% agree. Dawkins is not elite but he is solid. Both guards are average to poor. Brown is a good long term investment and a cheap one for the future. That future is more than a year away if all goes to plan in 2021 and 2022.

[Patrick Duffy]

Doubt it. Unless an injury occurs he will replace Williams next season imo. Hard for me to see him at G. He will be at RT I believe is the most likely scenario. Will continue to see him rotated in some, but won't take over/start unless DW gets injured (knock on wood)