The Edmunds Report - Week 3, WTF's v. Bills, 09/26/21

[John from Riverside]

So it seems that people don’t dislike Edmunds so much as they’re thinking about the money it’s going to cost to keep them guess what folks it’s not your money

[Freddie's Dead]

24 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

So over the course of the game he finished as a plus 3? Am I reading that right? If so I think that would qualify as average and not a b minus, more like a c.

 

regardless, that is well below expectations of a first rd line backer in his 4th year 

 

B- because he was much more of a Dow Joneser against WTF than he was against PIT.  You want to call that a C, fine.

 

22 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I hope he'll at least be better in the booth...

"Backpedaling into no man's land" is how you keep Heinicke from throwing it to Logan Thomas down the middle....

 

It's not a glorious role, I know

 

BIMBO!!  

Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead

[Mr. Wonderful]

To the casual observer, he seems to make most of his plays behind him instead of in front of him. He's chasing ball carriers from behind instead of pursuing to the point of attack.        

[Freddie's Dead]

27 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I'm not suggesting TE was the reason Heinecke scored on that scramble, but I AM suggesting he failed to come off his coverage responsibility even as the QB crossed the LOS and advanced the ball. I'm suggesting TE is often hesitant and late to react and therefore does not make plays outside the scope of his prescribed responsibilities. Which means he is just a talented chess piece who only impacts plays in a passive way, if at all.

 

I didn't see that.  I saw TE stay in the zone and pursue Muffler after he crossed the LOS.  We just gonna disagree about that play.

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

BIMBO!!  

[Freddie's Dead]

Just now, LeGOATski said:

 

Short Circuit reference....

[Solomon Grundy]

I'm loving the Edmunds Report!! 

[Rc2catch]

First I haven’t seen it acknowledged yet. Kudos to WTF throughout the whole breakdown. WFT just doesn’t work right in my brain for them 😂😂 

 

I value things like this, because I think it’s good to point out under the radar things. That said, Edmunds is not elite and splashy and that’s basically what I see most of the people disliking him say. First year all we heard was Leighton Vander Esch was soooo amazing and Edmunds sucks. First year. 
LVE is hurt non stop and still a solid player but he’s certainly not the elite talent everyone thought he was year one. Edmunds is just never going to make some people happy. We hear the contract talk now but the hate was there long before a possible contract extension. People’s minds are made up and no analysis is going to change that. People want an attacking player similar to what Milano or Devin white are and that’s just not gonna be Edmunds. Not here. Rather it’s coaching or him he just doesn’t play aggressively. Maybe someone smarter can add in to this or refute it but I rewatched some of the Miami game and his “pass rushes” and he doesn’t really even try a move or move his hands. It’s like he’s coached to run straight in and be absorbed by a lineman. That happens on run plays as well. For me and my opinion anyways I feel like this is coached into him to a certain extent. He absorbs a linemen and someone else frees up to make a play. We are onto contract chatter for him now and I’m all for extending him if they choose to. I trust Mcdermott and Beane to make these choices. I have a hard time finding ways to agree with people hating our own players. Not everyone but some of these posters literally hate Edmunds guts. If you got a Bills uniform on and don’t hit women or rape or hurt kids you got my support. 

[Freddie's Dead]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

First I haven’t seen it acknowledged yet. Kudos to WTF throughout the whole breakdown. WFT just doesn’t work right in my brain for them 😂😂 

 

It’s like he’s coached to run straight in and be absorbed by a lineman. That happens on run plays as well. For me and my opinion anyways I feel like this is coached into him to a certain extent. He absorbs a linemen and someone else frees up to make a play.

 

I had to go back to correct it because a few WFT's had slipped in....

 

You've made an astute observation.  There are lots of things to see when iso'ing on TE, but it's like you say.  He absorbs blockers, then others routinely make the play.  I also wonder if it's coaching, because while he sheds blocks from time to time, he most often just absorbs them.  It's weird.  

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I had to go back to correct it because a few WFT's had slipped in....

 

You've made an astute observation.  There are lots of things to see when iso'ing on TE, but it's like you say.  He absorbs blockers, then others routinely make the play.  I also wonder if it's coaching, because while he sheds blocks from time to time, he most often just absorbs them.  It's weird.  

I had this chat with my dad. Why Edmunds doesn’t seem to fight harder to get through the line on blitzes. Best I could come up with is maybe it’s coached to stay around the line of scrimmage. So if the back or quarterback have the ball and get through Edmunds can pull away easily and chase them down. Kinda the last line of the middle level of defense. He does retreat from being absorbed opposed to pushing through and tries to catch up to possible plays. But I’m certainly no expert and I don’t rewatch a lot of the games. The Miami thing was something I noticed live so I went back to see. 

[QCity]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

So it seems that people don’t dislike Edmunds so much as they’re thinking about the money it’s going to cost to keep them guess what folks it’s not your money

 

The "it's not your money" refrain has always been a load of BS from people that don't understand the ramifications of the salary cap. It's right up there with the "the cap doesn't apply to good GMs" argument which is even more ridiculous. There's a price for overpaying players and it's not always as simple as losing a rostered asset, there's also a lost opportunity cost for not being able to bring in new players that's hard to quantify. This isn't fantasy football where money doesn't matter.

[Big C]

2 hours ago, JohninMinn. said:

Edmunds has the speed and size but lacks football instinct. I'm hoping the light eventually comes on through sheer playing time. The clock is ticking....

See the thing is they are trusting him to make pre-snap reads and call shifts and the unit as a whole seems to be working. I agree that he isn’t the most physical run defender and doesn’t make many impact plays but how can we be sure he isn’t doing his job? The defense is playing really well and has played better when he is out there and healthy (note how the defense got better in the second half of last season). His speed and size absolutely make him one to avoid in the pass game and the pass game is increasingly more important in this league. 

[Freddie's Dead]

18 minutes ago, Big C said:

See the thing is they are trusting him to make pre-snap reads and call shifts and the unit as a whole seems to be working. I agree that he isn’t the most physical run defender and doesn’t make many impact plays but how can we be sure he isn’t doing his job? The defense is playing really well and has played better when he is out there and healthy (note how the defense got better in the second half of last season). His speed and size absolutely make him one to avoid in the pass game and the pass game is increasingly more important in this league. 

 

The QBing of the D is almost totally discounted by the haterz.  Edmunds is one of the few defenders taking every snap.  That says a lot about the faith they have in him.  I'm coming around to that point of view.

[Utah John]

The coaches are using Edmunds the way they think best.  They aren't looking for splash plays from him.  They want him to eat space and force action to places where they want it to go to.  

 

This defense is not 11 guys running around.  It's one unit with 11 parts, and if it's working well the MLB has a lot to do with its success.

 

Edmunds on another team might be given very different duties and perhaps would become a dominant force by himself.  On this team, he's the glue that keeps everything working together.  

[GunnerBill]

The holding call was legit. He grabbed the back of Logan Thomas's jersey.

[Freddie's Dead]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

The holding call was legit. He grabbed the back of Logan Thomas's jersey.

 

I didn't see it and they never bothered replaying it, even through the massive delay.  Did you get it elsewhere?

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, QCity said:

 

The "it's not your money" refrain has always been a load of BS from people that don't understand the ramifications of the salary cap. It's right up there with the "the cap doesn't apply to good GMs" argument which is even more ridiculous. There's a price for overpaying players and it's not always as simple as losing a rostered asset, there's also a lost opportunity cost for not being able to bring in new players that's hard to quantify. This isn't fantasy football where money doesn't matter.

Frankly beane has earned the right to be respected on his decision on this which ever way he goes he may decide that Edmonds isn’t worth the money

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said:

 

I didn't see it and they never bothered replaying it, even through the massive delay.  Did you get it elsewhere?

 

Yea. The all 22. It's soft but both the hold and the illegal contact they called on him on that same play were fair calls IMO. He tugged the back of Thomas's jersey with his left hand and then he made contact just before the ball arrived. It was the sort of play where if the ball just goes off Thomas's hands incomplete the ref might decide not to throw the flag but two small fouls on a play that leads to a turnover I thought they were the right call. 

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

You obviously put a lot of time into this and for that it’s appreciated. It is a subjective grading system, so some of your +1 plays and other assessments could definitely be argued - “TE drops into coverage, Heinicke throws beyond the LOS +1” “TE called for holding, but I didnt see it 0.” There are others like this, but I chose two as an example.
The fact remains, Edmund’s game changing, impact plays are few and far between. His mistakes are magnified because he routinely fails to make splash plays and his missteps stand out like a flashlight in a dark room. He’s not a “terrible” player, but he’s not a difference-maker either, I’d move on after the season for any dollar amount over $10M/yr.

Ideally I’d love to see what he would fetch in a trade.

 

Well I don’t disagree - the question becomes then are you willing to play with Milano and Klein then as your 2 LBs.  Most likely - since Edmunds is routinely considered a top 5-10 LB you are not finding a replacement at that level - especially with knowledge of this defense and the ability to call plays and cover.

 

So I guess the biggest question is are you willing to completely change Milano’s role from the attacking LB to a coverage LB and have a Klein level LB starting opposite?  Since Klein (and many other LBs in this league) can’t cover as well as Edmunds - what impact does that have?

 

I think people would be surprised at how much worse this defense becomes with a below average replacement in for Edmunds.  We saw last year when Milano and Edmunds were hurt - exactly how well the 2 compliment each other and how Klein could play the attacking role, but could not play the coverage role.  
 

I do think you could play someone else in that spot that can get you more “splash plays” - I just think those plays then come out of the things Milano currently does because Milano would switch to the coverage and contain LB.

 

 

[timekills17]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

So it seems that people don’t dislike Edmunds so much as they’re thinking about the money it’s going to cost to keep them guess what folks it’s not your money

 

I dislike this thought process more than I dislike the potential for "overpaying" Edmunds.

 

Every time I here this I think "No one who understands the NFL and salary caps is concerned about overpaying a player because it will cost *them*. It's because it means money isn't available to pay OTHER BETTER/DESERVING players."

 

It has *nothing* do to with whose money it is. This is like people saying "The owner is rich; he can afford to pay X$ to some player."

That has absolutely zero to do with. All owners are rich, and all have the exact same amount of money they MUST spend and CAN spend - and no more than that.

 

If we pay more to Edmunds than he's actually "worth" then we have less money UNDER THE CAP to spend on other players. Which might mean we miss out on acquiring or keeping another player a firm market value who can help the team win.

 

Just stop with the discussion about whose money is being spent. The discussion is what % of the total amount a team IS ALLOWED to spend makes sense.