Freddie's Dead Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) Since Edmunds is still getting so much hate, I'm going to do this weekly. The PIT game convinced me that much of the Edmunds hate is undeserved, but I want to see if I'm missing anything. I'll use the same point system -1, 0, +1, and keep a running total. I'll ignore plays where he's not involved and only look at coverage if he's onscreen (I don't have the All-22). I'll also flag plays for the haterz so they can skip the rest. Let's go to the tape. WTF 1st possession 1st and 10, WTF 21. Run off RT, TE overruns the hole, blocked out (HATERZ PLAY), 9 yard gain (-1,-1) 3rd and 2, WTF 29. McKissic comes out, throws a pick on TE, draws the OPI after first down by McLaurin (+1,0) 3rd and 12, WTF 19. TE covers Logan Thomas in flat, makes tackle 1 yard short of first down (+1,+1) WTF 2nd possession 3rd and 8, WTF 37. TE blitzes, but peels off to cover RB in the flat, Muffler goes to Logan Thomas, fumble (+1,+2) WTF 3rd possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. TE blitzes, doesn't get there, 10 yard reception (0,+2) 1st and 10, WTF 35. Run, TE blocked at point of attack, 4 yard gain (0,+2) 2nd and 6, WTF 39. TE drops into coverage on the right, Muffler throws left, Poyer INT (0,+2) WTF 4th possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. TE calls a line shift, Gibson up the gut, stuffed by TE in the hole for 2 yards (+1,+3) 2nd and 8, WTF 27. TE drops into coverage, screen to Gibson, TE blocked 11 yards downfield by 79 (HATERZ PLAY), turns to chase Gibson, runs into a pile of people (-1,+2) You know the rest, complete Bills D collapse, 73 yard TD WTF 5th possession 1st and 10, BUF 24. WR end around, TE blocked backward at point of attack, 7 yard gain (-1,+1) 2nd and 3, BUF 17. Gibson sweep, TE pursues down line, Poyer 1 yard TFL (0,+1) 3rd and 4, BUF 18. TE drops into short zone, covers 13, then slides to 17, Logan Thomas settles in seam behind TE, 15 yard completion (0,+1) 2nd and goal, BUF 3. TE drops into coverage, Muffler takes off and beats everyone to the pylon (0,+1) WTF 6th possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. TE drops into coverage, Muffler chased OB, 1 yard gain (0,+1) 2nd and 9, WTF 26. TE drops into coverage, Gibson sweep TFL by Cookie (0,+1) 3rd and 10, WTF 25. TE drops into coverage, Muffler complete to 13, TE WITH THE STUFF, laying the lumber on 13, 3 yards short of 1st down (+1,+2) WTF 7th possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. TE drops, McKissic run, TE blocked 5 yards downfield (HATERZ PLAY), 10 yards, 1st down (-1,+1) 1st and 10, WTF 35. TE drops into coverage on Logan Thomas, Muffler throws it, Thomas tips it, Taron Johnson INT. Did not see the holding call on TE, which was declined, looked like he had good coverage otherwise (0,+1) 1st and 10, WTF 41. TE covers McKissic in the flat, Muffler throws to McKissic, 4 yard gain (0,+1) 1st half observations: 1. Up and down half for TE. 2. I flagged three HATERZ PLAYs that the haterz will use to talk down TE. 3. Neither Rapelisberger nor Muffler threw much TE's way in coverage. Those who keep saying that TE is terrible in coverage need to show us some tape, 'cause I'm not seeing it. WTF 8th Possession 1st and 10, WTF 40. TE on a delayed blitz, Muffler with 1st down completion to McLaurin (0,+1) 1st and 10, BUF 45. McKissic run, TE sets edge, McK cuts inside, 5 yard run (0,+1) 2nd and 5, BUF 40. Jet sweep, TE chases down the line, cleans up the 5 yard TFL with Hyde (+1,+2) 3rd and 10, BUF 45. TE in coverage on Logan Thomas, Muffler throws incomplete to WR left (+1,+3) WTF 9th possession 1st and 15, WTF 5. Gibson run, TE sheds a block, dives for the tackle but Gibson fakes him out his jockstrap (HATERZ PLAY, but can't lie, TE looked stupid on this one), 7 yard gain (-1,+2) 2nd and 8, WTF 12. TE drops, Muffler goes past LOS and throws, illegal forward pass, loss of down (+1,+3) 3rd and 13, WTF 7. TE drops, Muffler throws his way, and Hyde makes the pick. It looks like TE baited him into the INT, something I saw another poster complain about, that TE never "baits" the QB. Sure looks like he did there (+1,+4) WTF 10th possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. TE washed out a bit, 3 yard run gain (0,+4) WTF 11th possession 1st and 10, WTF 1. TE piles into line, 1 yard run (0,+4) 2nd and 9, WTF 2. TE drops, Muffler does not throw his way yet again, dropped pass (0,+4) 3rd and 9, WTF 2. TE drops, Muffler hits McKissic on safety valve, jukes TE for first down (HATERZ PLAY, but agree, TE needs to make that tackle short of the sticks) (-1,+3) 1st and 10, WTF 14. TE drops, Muffler pulls it down and scrambles for 7 (0,+3) 2nd and 3, WTF 21. Muffler with the play action, throws and TREMAINE EDMUNDS, WITH THE REJECTION! (in my best Marv Albert) Great play by TE, Muffler caught the rejection, and TE cleaned up with a 1 yard TFL (+1,+4) 3rd and 5, WTF 20. TE drops, Muffler pulls it down after finding no one open, and dives short of 1st down (0,+4) 4th and 1, WTF 24. TE plugs up the middle, and Cookie cleans Muffler's clock (+1,+5) WTF 12th possession 1st and 10, WTF 25. Gibson off-tackle, TE sheds blocks and makes the tackle, 7 yard gain (HATERZ PLAY) (0,+5) 2nd and 3, WTF 32. Gibson up the gut, TE sheds a block, completely whiffs on the tackle (HATERZ PLAY, but again, TE looked stupid on this one) 1st down run (-1,+4) 2nd and 13, WTF 35. TE covers Logan again, makes tackle after completion to other receiver (0,+4) 1st and 10, BUF 44. TE drops, Muffler throws to McLaurin, TE misses the tackle (-1,+3) Conclusions 1. Edmunds is a good MLB, not great. The Bills will re-sign him if the price is right. 2. His coverage skills are excellent. They rarely throw his way, and when they do, he usually makes the tackle for minimal gain. 3. The haterz had more fodder with today's game, because there were two plays I saw where TE looked completely stupid. I didn't see that against PIT. 4. I thought TE had a better game against the Squeelers than he did against the WTF's. My grades for TE so far: Squeelers - B+ WTF's - B- For the haterz, I get it, I was with you. You see one or two plays that look bad, and you extrapolate to TE's entire body of work. The best example is coverage skills. I see the complaints, but outside a TE seam route against PIT, TE is solid in coverage. If you have examples that prove that wrong, please post. For now, I'm looking forward to seeing TE get better. Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead 15 3 3 16
Robert Paulson Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Keep this up because all i see/notice is the bad. It is nice to read an objective review. 4 2 1
Brand J Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 You obviously put a lot of time into this and for that it’s appreciated. It is a subjective grading system, so some of your +1 plays and other assessments could definitely be argued - “TE drops into coverage, Heinicke throws beyond the LOS +1” “TE called for holding, but I didnt see it 0.” There are others like this, but I chose two as an example. The fact remains, Edmund’s game changing, impact plays are few and far between. His mistakes are magnified because he routinely fails to make splash plays and his missteps stand out like a flashlight in a dark room. He’s not a “terrible” player, but he’s not a difference-maker either, I’d move on after the season for any dollar amount over $10M/yr. Ideally I’d love to see what he would fetch in a trade. 6 3 2
kjack151 Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Great job! I appreciate an objective evaluation. I recall when some folks were complaining about Star’s Lotulelei not producing on the field. We all saw what happened last year when he wasn’t there. It’s not all about spectacular plays 3 3 1
qwksilver Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Thanks for doing this homework. This will be very interesting. Looking forward to the coming weeks. 1 1
LeGOATski Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Another poster told me he's a "net negative," so.... 2
Freddie's Dead Posted September 28, 2021 Author Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said: You obviously put a lot of time into this and for that it’s appreciated. It is a subjective grading system, so some of your +1 plays and other assessments could definitely be argued - “TE drops into coverage, Heinicke throws beyond the LOS +1” “TE called for holding, but I didnt see it 0.” There are others like this, but I chose two as an example. The fact remains, Edmund’s game changing, impact plays are few and far between. His mistakes are magnified because he routinely fails to make splash plays and his missteps stand out like a flashlight in a dark room. He’s not a “terrible” player, but he’s not a difference-maker either, I’d move on after the season for any dollar amount over $10M/yr. Ideally I’d love to see what he would fetch in a trade. The grading system is totally subjective, since I have no clue what TE's assignment is on any given play. When Muffler made the illegal forward pass, I gave TE a +1, because his coverage led to the pump fake which took Muffler past the LOS. I gave him a 0 on the triple penalty play because I couldn't see the hold, it was declined, and the coverage led to the INT. If you want to give him a -1, fine, but I thought the 0 was fair since there was both + and - on the play. Yes, Edmunds is not flashy, but I'm coming around to the fact that his play allows Cookie to roam free. On plays where TE is occupying a blocker, someone else is making the play. He did have three big plays today, two third down stops and the PD and TFL. The last competent MLB we had before Edmunds was London Fletcher, and we ran him out of town on a rail due to many of the same criticisms I hear about Edmunds. He went on to play 7 more years for the Redskins, among the league leaders in tackles every year, while we went through Posluszny, #LegendofDirtyKiko, etc. I don't want to go back to those days. I see TE re-signing for $7-8M/year. I expect TBD to go ballistic. Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead 3
MJS Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Edmunds is generally solid in coverage, but people don't usually see that on the broadcast. It's just a bunch of fans yelling for no reason. Is Edmunds an elite player? No. Does he suck? No. He makes some plays, he misses some plays, he cleans up tackles, and he is decent in coverage. He'll have to step up his game if he wants a good 2nd contract. 2
Richard Noggin Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 On that QB TD run to the right Edmunds was still bizarrely GIVING GROUND in the endzone (adhering to his pass coverage responsibility like a good boy) while Heinecke was already advancing the ball upfield toward the right pylon. It was crazy how late he finally planted a damned foot in the ground and moved toward the actual threat. Does anyone else recall that slow-mo replay? I try to be objective on TE, but that play was just mystifying. WTF was he doing staying back WELL after the QB broke the line of scrimmage? I cannot reconcile that play, and I'm afraid it's representative of his passive play in general. 1 1 1
qwksilver Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 I'll be interested to see what TE's score is when used as a blitzer/rusher. 1
Freddie's Dead Posted September 28, 2021 Author Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said: On that QB TD run to the right Edmunds was still bizarrely GIVING GROUND in the endzone (adhering to his pass coverage responsibility like a good boy) while Heinecke was already advancing the ball upfield toward the right pylon. It was crazy how late he finally planted a damned foot in the ground and moved toward the actual threat. Does anyone else recall that slow-mo replay? I try to be objective on TE, but that play was just mystifying. WTF was he doing staying back WELL after the QB broke the line of scrimmage? I cannot reconcile that play, and I'm afraid it's representative of his passive play in general. From the EZ angle, TE was about 10 yards to the left of Muffler when Muffler took off. TE runs laterally at full speed and is about a yard away when Muffler hit the pylon. He wasn't the reason Muffler scored on that play. 6 minutes ago, qwksilver said: I'll be interested to see what TE's score is when used as a blitzer/rusher. Not the best. He had the big PD and then TFL when Muffler caught the deflection, but other than that, I don't remember seeing TE make an impact play while rushing/blitzing. To be fair, there were only about 5 or 6 plays total in the PIT and WTF games when TE rushed the passer. I will keep track of that in the next review, so thanks for the suggestion! Edited September 28, 2021 by Freddie's Dead 1
Motorin' Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, MJS said: Edmunds is generally solid in coverage, but people don't usually see that on the broadcast. It's just a bunch of fans yelling for no reason. Is Edmunds an elite player? No. Does he suck? No. He makes some plays, he misses some plays, he cleans up tackles, and he is decent in coverage. He'll have to step up his game if he wants a good 2nd contract. That's where I'm at. His performance doesn't warrant the resources to be made the 2nd highest paid player on the defence. Is he even top half? above who: 1. Tre 2. Milano 3. Hyde 4. Poyer 5. Oliver 6. Jerry Edited September 28, 2021 by Motorin' 1 1
Bangarang Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 TE is the Donte Whitner of MLBs. There, I said it 5 1 7 1 1
LABILLBACKER Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Motorin' said: That's where I'm at. His performance doesn't warrant the resources to be made the 2nd highest paid player on the defence. Is he even top half? above who: 1. Tre 2. Milano 3. Hyde 4. Poyer 5. Oliver 6. Jerry I agree....I don't care anymore how McD wants to use him. He's not worth a penny more than these top 5. Too much backpedaling into no man's land. Zero splash plays. Frustrating instincts. Shut down Kelce in 2 weeks and I'll get off his back. 1 1
Freddie's Dead Posted September 28, 2021 Author Posted September 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bangarang said: TE is the Donte Whitner of MLBs. There, I said it No need to insult TE. 1
JohninMinn. Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 Edmunds has the speed and size but lacks football instinct. I'm hoping the light eventually comes on through sheer playing time. The clock is ticking.... 1
Richard Noggin Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Freddie's Dead said: From the EZ angle, TE was about 10 yards to the left of Muffler when Muffler took off. TE runs laterally at full speed and is about a yard away when Muffler hit the pylon. He wasn't the reason Muffler scored on that play. I'm not suggesting TE was the reason Heinecke scored on that scramble, but I AM suggesting he failed to come off his coverage responsibility even as the QB crossed the LOS and advanced the ball. I'm suggesting TE is often hesitant and late to react and therefore does not make plays outside the scope of his prescribed responsibilities. Which means he is just a talented chess piece who only impacts plays in a passive way, if at all. 2
QCity Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, Bangarang said: TE is the Donte Whitner of MLBs. There, I said it That's.... actually pretty accurate. 1 1 1
Bray Wyatt Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 So over the course of the game he finished as a plus 3? Am I reading that right? If so I think that would qualify as average and not a b minus, more like a c. regardless, that is well below expectations of a first rd line backer in his 4th year 1
LeGOATski Posted September 28, 2021 Posted September 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, Bangarang said: TE is the Donte Whitner of MLBs. There, I said it I hope he'll at least be better in the booth... 17 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I agree....I don't care anymore how McD wants to use him. He's not worth a penny more than these top 5. Too much backpedaling into no man's land. Zero splash plays. Frustrating instincts. Shut down Kelce in 2 weeks and I'll get off his back. "Backpedaling into no man's land" is how you keep Heinicke from throwing it to Logan Thomas down the middle.... It's not a glorious role, I know 2
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