Zach Moss needs to be the lead back

[gobills404]

10 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

That’s cute how about just use a little bit of common sense and take one long run out of motors stats and see what they look like give me Mosses Consistent production pass protection and receiving ability any day

If you remove singletary's longest run (46 yards) and moss' longest run (10 yards) singletary still has a higher yards per carry.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

25 minutes ago, Fan boy '92 said:

You sound familiar. Were you head of Rex Ryan's analytics department?

The YPC stats are a little misleading. I think you posted them above, but I can’t find that post for some reason. I do think Motor has looked better at times than last year, and his long TD shouldn’t be “discounted” (though it obviously inflated his YPC). But Moss’s use in short yardage situations probably depresses his YPC.  So, I think the stats don’t tell the whole story. 
 

I guess my main point is that Moss has really moved ahead here in the last two games, and I think if he were given the lion’s share of the snaps, the productivity from the position would probably be better and more consistent. 

[LABILLBACKER]

Moss is just flat out a more complete back. Better runner, blocker and pass catcher. Devin's first 2 games looked promising but he took a step back against WFT. I think its Zach's job to lose. We absolutely have to have the capacity to throw to our RB.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Round and Round we go! 🤪

 

Both guys have specific skill sets that work for this team differently on a game by game basis. It's a committee approach. The team seems fully content with that. Likely, barring injury or the fumble doghouse, we'll see each of them leading different games in touches.

Yes, but there's a tactical advantage to having your best running back threat on the field on first down.   That's the down when you can attack the whole field, so that's when you want your best running back out there.   Regardless of how the touches vary from week to week, you want the opponent to have to plan for the guy as a threat on most of the offense's plays.  Singletary's been okay, but Moss seems more consistently to find opportunities for an 8-15 yard gain.  I'd start Moss and force the opponent to plan for his brand of explosiveness.  

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, but there's a tactical advantage to having your best running back threat on the field on first down.   That's the down when you can attack the whole field, so that's when you want your best running back out there.   Regardless of how the touches vary from week to week, you want the opponent to have to plan for the guy as a threat on most of the offense's plays.  Singletary's been okay, but Moss seems more consistently to find opportunities for an 8-15 yard gain.  I'd start Moss and force the opponent to plan for his brand of explosiveness.  

Outside of week 1 when Moss was scratched, teams have had to plan for both since last year. It doesn't make a difference who starts.

[Fan boy '92]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, but there's a tactical advantage to having your best running back threat on the field on first down.   That's the down when you can attack the whole field, so that's when you want your best running back out there.   Regardless of how the touches vary from week to week, you want the opponent to have to plan for the guy as a threat on most of the offense's plays.  Singletary's been okay, but Moss seems more consistently to find opportunities for an 8-15 yard gain.  I'd start Moss and force the opponent to plan for his brand of explosiveness.  

Right, there is an advantage to having your best back on the field on first down and I'm not ready to hand the keys to a back with a four ypc and 25 yard career long run.

[MJS]

Just play the hot hand. Some weeks it will be Singletary. It's a committee backfield. It doesn't matter who you list first.

 

[Putin]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Sorry but Devin is a backup or even third string RB,  Moss should be the starter and should some great receiving skills that Devin does not have

You can also add a better blocker to that as well 

[LeGOATski]

Next I'll be told that Motor is a "net negative"

[Shaw66]

8 minutes ago, Fan boy '92 said:

Right, there is an advantage to having your best back on the field on first down and I'm not ready to hand the keys to a back with a four ypc and 25 yard career long run.

I got it.  All I'm saying is I like what I've seen from Moss better.   I get that others could see it another way.  I'm not saying Daboll is a fool not to be giving Moss more touches.   He's not the clear and obvious winner in the competition to be the start.   I just think he'd be a better choice.  

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Round and Round we go! 🤪

 

Both guys have specific skill sets that work for this team differently on a game by game basis. It's a committee approach. The team seems fully content with that. Likely, barring injury or the fumble doghouse, we'll see each of them leading different games in touches.

My thoughts are in this vein. Which back we use against which opponent and which phase of the game will be according to the pre- and in- game plan. As an example, we would have been much better off against the Steelers if Moss was playing. It seems there was something else going on which caused McD to make him a healthy scratch - perhaps short term pain for long term gain. 

[Fan boy '92]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I got it.  All I'm saying is I like what I've seen from Moss better.   I get that others could see it another way.  I'm not saying Daboll is a fool not to be giving Moss more touches.   He's not the clear and obvious winner in the competition to be the start.   I just think he'd be a better choice.  

Sure, reasonable minds can differ. Let's let it play out over the next few weeks and revisit.

[JohninMinn.]

It's seems fans are in denial of the fact that Singletary is by far the slowest back in the league. He is a liability.

[That's No Moon]

Singletary is great side to side but he's slow so he can't really exploit the space he can make for himself. Yes. I know he had a long TD run. Every single back in the NFL would have scored on that run. I'm talking about play in play out. It doesn't help that his receiving skills are subpar at best and the OC will do things like split him out wide. If I'm the defense I invite you to throw the ball there. Please. Do that. If Daboll is going to run an offense that wants to pass this much you need to have a back on the field that can catch the ball and threaten the defense and Singletary isn't that guy. Moss, for want of someone better, is.

2 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

It's seems fans are in denial of the fact that Singletary is by far the slowest back in the league. He is a liability.

One of the quickest side to side and the slowest forward. It's a shame. He makes some nice creases for himself but the acceleration just isn't there to really take advantage of it.

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

In this past game it did feel like Moss was more decisive and was able to get more yards after contact than Devin.

 

He has a more bruising style that I think is a bit more effective when our backs hit that second level of a defense. Devin is a bit more of a finesse RB that can make folks miss if he is given space. It is up to Dabs on how to best align what they bring and use them effectively.

 

 

 

 

He still fumbles the football.   

[Fan boy '92]

20 minutes ago, JohninMinn. said:

It's seems fans are in denial of the fact that Singletary is by far the slowest back in the league. He is a liability.

40 yd dash combine results:

Devin Singletary-4.66

Zach Moss-4.65

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The YPC stats are a little misleading. I think you posted them above, but I can’t find that post for some reason. I do think Motor has looked better at times than last year, and his long TD shouldn’t be “discounted” (though it obviously inflated his YPC). But Moss’s use in short yardage situations probably depresses his YPC.  So, I think the stats don’t tell the whole story. 
 

I guess my main point is that Moss has really moved ahead here in the last two games, and I think if he were given the lion’s share of the snaps, the productivity from the position would probably be better and more consistent. 

Hard to move people off of their positions once they’re in trenched Moss has looked better And offers more and at one point the bills also thought this when he started taking motors carries last season

 

[WideNine]

26 minutes ago, ganesh said:

He still fumbles the football.   

 

This is true of both our backs I think...

 

Those second and third efforts fighting for extra yards are somewhat dual-edged. 

 

We praise the relentless effort, yet those efforts often come with forced fumbles.

 

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, MJS said:

Just play the hot hand. Some weeks it will be Singletary. It's a committee backfield. It doesn't matter who you list first.

 

Playing the hot hand seems to be something Daboll refuses to do. There's an axiom in the RB community that the more carries they get, the better they become. I'd like to see that with the Bills sometimes

Edited September 28, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[bobobonators]

4 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I know Devin has improved from last year, but watching moss and DS on the field, Moss just brings so much more to the table. He hits the hole harder, is a short yardage bruiser, is very good out of the backfield catching the ball, and is a very good blocker.

 

Beyond that, if the Bills go to that read option/RPO stretch action they ran a lot of during the WFT game, Moss is a much more instinctive and decisive runner. Devin was lost out there on those runs, just getting swallowed up looking for a crease. 
 

The stats from last game bear this out, with Moss having 13/60 (plus 30 rec yards), and Singletary with 11/26. 
 

I think we need both guys, but I would like to see the split be more like 80/20, than 50/50.

Eh im not sure. To me theyre very interchangeable. Neither is clearly better nor worse than the other. I think that’ll show itself to be true as they continue to flip-flop their success from week to week.