Off topic Alabama QBs

[RoyBatty is alive]

23 hours ago, Blainorama5 said:

No.  Not enough time to truly evaluate either Jones or Tua.  It's like suggesting that all Wyoming QBs are awful.  Would normally be a safe assumption, but a few years later, that's clearly not true.  Ask again in another couple seasons.

 

I think it is enough time to evaluate Tua, here is mine.

 

1) He is small and gets hurts easily.

2) He doesn't have a strong arm and due to his stature, doubt he will develop one.

3) He has a very very low ceiling, imo he is a mediocre starting NFL QB.

 

No wonder the Dolphins have been trying to get Deshaun Watson.

21 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

I knew you'd get it boss.  A program means very little as you find gems in all places.  Purdue is not exactly a powerhouse, but that’s where Brees is from.

Purdue historically has been a football factyr for decades.  Off the top of my head Len Dawson, Griese, Everett, our own Kyle Orton

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I think it is enough time to evaluate Tua, here is mine.

 

1) He is small and gets hurts easily.

2) He doesn't have a strong arm and due to his stature, doubt he will develop one.

3) He has a very very low ceiling, imo he is a mediocre starting NFL QB.

 

No wonder the Dolphins have been trying to get Deshaun Watson.

He might not have a howitzer

 

But his arm certainly passes the threshold for NFL quarterbacks.. he pushed the ball downfield his entire career at Alabama  

 

If you had a weak weak arm you can't push the ball down field in the SEC 

 

His hip injury which was almost a career ender certainly changed the trajectory of his career... And effected his arm strength

Edited September 28, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Yes it’s you.

Gotcha! Wyoming has been playing with with fewer qbs all these years. Thanks for your help.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think that you obviously need to scout quarterbacks with a grain of salt that are at those schools 

 

But it doesn't mean that successful quarterbacks can't come from them

 

In fact I've watched every snap of Tua and Mac.. and I honestly think Tua is the more talented quarterback

 

He just might not have the physicality to withstand the rigors of the game 

 

Before his hip injury he was probably going over burrow ... That really changed the course of his career 

 

 

 

I agree.  Deshaun Watson is one example and Joe Burrow is another.  I'd probably add Oklahoma to the list of programs that are so loaded offensively that it's harder to evaluate the QB as an NFL prospect.

 

Tua was maybe going to go ahead of Burrow before the season started, but no way would he have gone ahead of him after the season Burrow put up in 2019.   

[dave mcbride]

10 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

I think it is enough time to evaluate Tua, here is mine.

 

1) He is small and gets hurts easily.

2) He doesn't have a strong arm and due to his stature, doubt he will develop one.

3) He has a very very low ceiling, imo he is a mediocre starting NFL QB.

 

No wonder the Dolphins have been trying to get Deshaun Watson.

Purdue historically has been a football factyr for decades.  Off the top of my head Len Dawson, Griese, Everett, our own Kyle Orton

Along with Cal, Oregon, Alabama, and Stanford, Purdue is the only school with three good-to-excellent QBs since 1960 (see my post above for details). That said, after the 1960s, Purdue seems to go about 15-20 years between good NFL prospects. They haven't had one since Brees, although Orton could actually play in the league. He wasn't great, but he was physically capable and could operate an NFL offense. But really, he's a Steve DeBerg-type QB -- good enough to get a coach fired. My own advice about QBs is to NEVER assume a school is a predictor of anything. To reiterate a point I've made numerous times, it was assumed up until 2001 that Michigan QBs would never be great and would most likely be terrible. 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree.  Deshaun Watson is one example and Joe Burrow is another.  I'd probably add Oklahoma to the list of programs that are so loaded offensively that it's harder to evaluate the QB as an NFL prospect.

 

Tua was maybe going to go ahead of Burrow before the season started, but no way would he have gone ahead of him after the season Burrow put up in 2019.   

Before tua got hurt.. there was tank for tua 

 

Even while Joe was balling..  

 

Former NFL scout Bucky Brooks still called tua the most talented quarterback in the class  

 

The Bengals still went to his pro day so they obviously were still doing due diligence.. if it was Burrow 100% they wouldn't even go 

 

After the injury 100% I agree, It was Joe.. but tua was a first round quarterback before the season .. before Joe's 5th season in college... he was a fifth , sixth round pick 

 

also a lot of risk in a guy who shoots up the board that much

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mannc]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Before tua got hurt.. there was tank for tua 

 

Even while Joe was balling..  

 

Former NFL scout Bucky Brooks still called tua the most talented quarterback in the class  

 

The Bengals still went to his pro day so they obviously were still doing due diligence.. if it was Burrow 100% they wouldn't even go 

 

After the injury 100% I agree, It was Joe.. but tua was a first round quarterback before the season .. before Joe's 5th season in college... he was a fifth , sixth round pick 

 

also a lot of risk in a guy who shoots up the board that much

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's quite an indictment of Brooks as a college QB evaluator...Anyone who would conclude that Tua was more talented than Burrow and Herbert, even before Tua's injury, is someone I'm not going to pay much attention to...

[Straight Hucklebuck]

23 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

  Just was curious does Mac Jones struggles along with Tuas and other Bama QBs finally put to rest any argument that it really is Bamas talent around the QB and not the QB itself that makes them successful.
  Cause I think it’s a large enough sample now that if I’m an NFL GM and I see a highly touted Bama QB I just look elsewhere now since Bryce Young will probably get similar hype in another year or two. 

Well, I think it should still be taken as a case by case basis. 

 

But since Alabama's rebirth as a National power, outside of Hurts, it does feel like many of their Quarterbacks were geared towards a tried and true approach, namely, game managers who are paired with an elite defense. 

 

Brody Croyle, John Parker Wilson, then the Saban era starts and its more of the same - Greg McElroy and AJ McCarron, Jake Coker same stiff QB, no real NFL ability.  

 

Now we see Tua is too small for the Pro Game, lacks any physical tools, and Mac Jones so far has been a dump-off, captain-checkdown artist in New England and he can't run at all either.  

 

But Alabama is far and away the recruiting champion, so they might get a true Justin Herbert/Trevor Lawrence/Kyler Murray level athlete someday. And Saban acknowledged that today's game is about offense. You're not going to hold teams down to 17 points anymore. 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

23 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

You don’t choose a QB by a program or not by a program.  You can find these guys in Delaware, Wyoming, and 100 other places.  It just depends.

Normally I agree but Bama has a large sample size. I'm guessing their process gears these guys for short term success vs growth. That and the have 2 nfl pro bowl caliber receivers on the team most years, and the best OL. Just don't face the adversity needed to grow at the next level. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

That's quite an indictment of Brooks as a college QB evaluator...Anyone who would conclude that Tua was more talented than Burrow and Herbert, even before Tua's injury, is someone I'm not going to pay much attention to...

All sorts of evaluators and scouts have wild takes and opinions 

 

He's been a former NFL scout so I was just using it as an example for differing opinions 

 

Even from people with credentials

[RoyBatty is alive]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Along with Cal, Oregon, Alabama, and Stanford, Purdue is the only school with three good-to-excellent QBs since 1960 (see my post above for details). That said, after the 1960s, Purdue seems to go about 15-20 years between good NFL prospects. They haven't had one since Brees, although Orton could actually play in the league. He wasn't great, but he was physically capable and could operate an NFL offense. But really, he's a Steve DeBerg-type QB -- good enough to get a coach fired. My own advice about QBs is to NEVER assume a school is a predictor of anything. To reiterate a point I've made numerous times, it was assumed up until 2001 that Michigan QBs would never be great and would most likely be terrible. 

 

Conceptually I would agree with that.  The entire Purdue quarterback success I dont think has a unifying theme, it was just borderline random luck.

 

Now I will take slight exception to that and that is recent Alabama QBs under Saban.  I think they all get over drafted because the talent they play with versus other college QBs, it is almost impossible to assess fairly.  That is why I always thought (and still do) Mack Jones is the most intriguing player from this years draft.  It wouldn't shock me if he is a total bust or a rock star.  I always wondered how he would perform when he doesnt have the best (on a relative basis) protection and receivers surrounding him, he sure looked good first two games but I think he was somewhat exposed in the last game, made some very un Belichek like decisions when under stress.

Edited September 28, 2021 by RoyBatty is alive

[dave mcbride]

24 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 

Conceptually I would agree with that.  The entire Purdue quarterback success I dont think has a unifying theme, it was just borderline random luck.

 

Now I will take slight exception to that and that is recent Alabama QBs under Saban.  I think they all get over drafted because the talent they play with versus other college QBs, it is almost impossible to assess fairly.  That is why I always thought (and still do) Mack Jones is the most intriguing player from this years draft.  It wouldn't shock me if he is a total bust or a rock star.  I always wondered how he would perform when he doesnt have the best (on a relative basis) protection and receivers surrounding him, he sure looked good first two games but I think he was somewhat exposed in the last game, made some very un Belichek like decisions when under stress.

Agreed about Jones. He will definitely have some ups and downs this season - that goes without saying - and NO’s defense is good. We’ll just have to wait and see.

[appoo]

I don't think this has anything to do with Bama as much as it is NFL teams for some reason devalueing basic arm talent. None of the 3 Bama QBS - Hurts, Tua, or Jones - have even average NFL arm strength. I think they are all slightly below average.  They have exceptional touch, exceptional competitiveness, don't make a ton of mistakes, are pretty accurate, throw a really nice deep ball - and lack velocity to fit balls into small windows.

 

As a DC, you have to protect against the over the top, but you're not quite as fearful of the intermediate, smaller window stuff. You can gameplan with zone underneath, knowing the other QB will hesitate there, while protecting over the top. Force these guys to make velocity throws or checkdowns.  

 

That's not on Bama. They win championships with these guys because they have 3-4 dudes on the perimeter who would be the equivelent of having DK Metcalf, Stefon Diggs, and in prime Desean Jackson, backed up by Amari Cooper as your 4th WR. 

[Saxum]

10 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I would have released him!!!!!!

 

JK  

 

Catch and release?

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

To reiterate a point I've made numerous times, it was assumed up until 2001 that Michigan QBs would never be great and would most likely be terrible. 

 

Standards changed;  they included ability to cheat in current ratings.

[eball]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:56 PM, BillsfaninSB said:

Hurts is doing okay.  We will see tonight.

 

This aged well.

[SirAndrew]

Tua, Hurts, and Mac Jones will all turn out average or below average. The streak of Alabama QB NFL struggles continues. Today’s elite QB’s have exceptional skills like top end running speed (Jackson), and out of this world arm strength (Allen and Mahomes). These dudes with average arms and average wheels don’t make it. Brady is the exception to the rule, and I think he’s the last star QB we’ll ever see with that type of skill set. 

[Coastie]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Along with Cal, Oregon, Alabama, and Stanford, Purdue is the only school with three good-to-excellent QBs since 1960 (see my post above for details). That said, after the 1960s, Purdue seems to go about 15-20 years between good NFL prospects. They haven't had one since Brees, although Orton could actually play in the league. He wasn't great, but he was physically capable and could operate an NFL offense. But really, he's a Steve DeBerg-type QB -- good enough to get a coach fired. My own advice about QBs is to NEVER assume a school is a predictor of anything. To reiterate a point I've made numerous times, it was assumed up until 2001 that Michigan QBs would never be great and would most likely be terrible. 

I would say Louisville has three, Johnny Unitas, Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater.

[dave mcbride]

58 minutes ago, Coastie said:

I would say Louisville has three, Johnny Unitas, Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater.

Excellent! I did not know unitas went there. I wouldn’t put bridgewater there yet - he’s been decidedly mediocre - but maybe this season he makes the step up.

[prissythecat]

On 9/27/2021 at 3:56 PM, BillsfaninSB said:

Hurts is doing okay.  We will see tonight.

 

Im counting him as an Alabama QB. 

 

Hurts has shown he is backup material lol.  Am sure Philly is going to go for another QB.

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, prissythecat said:

 

Hurts has shown he is backup material lol.  Am sure Philly is going to go for another QB.

I think they will be in on Watson when price goes down