Ghost_002! Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Actually Jones was responsible for 1 INT. 1 bounced Smith hands (after juggling it for what felt like 10 minutes) for a pick 6. The second he was throwing and got hammered as he was throwing. Truth-be told he is better than I expected, but the D can’t get a stop when needed (21-13 and the D lets the Saints eat the clock up for a TD) and the O line is just a plain mess. (They shouldn’t be should be a top 5 line) as for this thread. Since 2000 BB went 14-6 without Brady and last year went 7-9 with one of the worst rosters in the NFL. He isn’t a fraud he just may be coming to the end of his run like anyone who is 70 years old. Jones had 2 ints that were his fault, but he is not the reason for their lost. And BB is not losing his "fast ball" it's week 3 and not even a year and a quarter of "the rebuild" but posters/fans with an agenda like to throw logic out the window and make hot takes over sample sizes instead of waiting for the whole picture. We all know after coaches lose a HOF player(s) and start to rebuild, they make the playoffs the next season and the SB the season after that. (sarcasm) 1
Doc Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 48 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said: Love these knee-jerk reactions. It's like some people just started watching the NFL. How many more seasons and what record without Brady would make this a non-knee-jerk reaction? 1
Ghost_002! Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Doc said: How many more seasons and what record without Brady would make this a non-knee-jerk reaction? So everything he accomplished In his career now is negated after Tom Brady left? Mind you, Tom Brady went to better team, he didn't go to a team with the same talent as the Patriots. Mind you BB defense won them their last SB not Tom Brady, Mind you his defensive game plan against the Bills in the SB is in the HOF, Mind you he won a SB in 01 with a "game manager " but we are going to wipe that out because we (some fans) are going to take a small portion of his career and now claim he isn't what the NFL says he is? 3
billsfan89 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 Not going to call him a fraud just yet. He did go 10-5 a full season without Brady and 4-0 when Brady was suspended. He is now trotting out a rookie QB who is having growing pains. Let’s see how this plays out.
LeGOATski Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 7 hours ago, Cotton Fitzsimmons said: LeGOATski, my good fellow… you are spot on per usual! However, you look at guys like a Dave Wannstedt, for example, who went 82-87 over his career with guys like Erik Kramer and Jay Fiedler under center. We can probably all agree Wanny is below average. A good chunk of Belichik’s 62-74 was with guys like Bernie Kosar and Drew Bledsoe at QB. It’s not unreasonable to say Belichik had superior non-Brady QB talent to a guy like Wanny and produced a worse record. In a world where Brady never falls into his lap, does Belichik finish out another mediocre season or two with Bledsoe in New England, get canned, and go down as a great DC who was a below average head coach? That's a 45% win percentage vs a 48% win percentage. Not a huge difference. I'm not gonna waste time comparing their rosters and strength of opponents. I don't doubt that Belichick could have improved (and learned how to cheat). Like players, coaches can get better.
BuffaloBills1998 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 I completely 100 percent agree. He didn’t do anything in Cleveland with either Kosar or Testaverde. He went 5-11 two years in a row under Bledsoe. He missed the playoffs when Cassel took over an injured Brady and he didn’t do squat with Newton last year. Belichick is very overrated and it’s starting to show he needs Brady more than Brady needs him.
Matt_In_NH Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 For a team to have the record the Patriots did under Belichick and Brady requires a high level of competence from coaching staff and a great QB. I bet if you list the great coaches of the NFL we can also list Hall of Fame Quarterbacks they had under them during their time. I will point out Brady was not the best QB while winning his first three Super Bowls....especially the first one, he did what was asked but he was not the main catalyst, he just didn't mess up much. Nice try, I hate the Patriots too but his record without his best player does not take away his accomplishments. 1
jimmy10 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 I heard it said once that if you take away the Brady years, Belichick’s career is basically the same as Rex Ryan’s. I have yet to see evidence to the contrary.
hondo in seattle Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 The anti-Belichick crowd looks at Brady's impact on Bill's W-L percentage but completely ignore Bill's influence on Brady. Brady was a mediocre 6th round draft pick that Belichick and his staff taught how to prepare, how to dissect defenses, and so on. Bill isn't Bill without Tom. Tom isn't Tom without Bill.
jimmy10 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: The anti-Belichick crowd looks at Brady's impact on Bill's W-L percentage but completely ignore Bill's influence on Brady. Brady was a mediocre 6th round draft pick that Belichick and his staff taught how to prepare, how to dissect defenses, and so on. Bill isn't Bill without Tom. Tom isn't Tom without Bill. Except Tom went on to do Tom things without Bill. Bill hasn’t seemed to be able to do the same. I’m as surprised as anyone, I thought for sure Bill would come out on top in that divorce. He still may, but we haven’t seen it yet.
pocoboy Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Ghost_002! said: Jones had 2 ints that were his fault, but he is not the reason for their lost. And BB is not losing his "fast ball" it's week 3 and not even a year and a quarter of "the rebuild" but posters/fans with an agenda like to throw logic out the window and make hot takes over sample sizes instead of waiting for the whole picture. We all know after coaches lose a HOF player(s) and start to rebuild, they make the playoffs the next season and the SB the season after that. (sarcasm) This is fair. Unfortunately the New England-based ESPN and other sympathetic media types (Ian Crap) are in the tank. First week, Mac Jones is Brady Jr, second week, he's the greatest...and Belichick has been billed as being so ever-loving awesome that this kind of normal trajectory of "rebuild" is utterly impossible for someone with this level of NFL pwnage. So with all of that - deserved that the rest of the league gets to yuck it up a bit at the expense of a fan base that has done absolutely nothing besides bought tickets and supported a guy who has used every underhanded technique to get an edge on an opponent. Sorry. The title of this thread is right - the fraud is that he's like just about every other coach, and is fortunate to have developed perhaps the greatest QB of all time under his watch.
BFLO Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 16 hours ago, Artem Lipatov said: Last year Brady proved he could win SB with any coach without genius BB. BB proved he’s below average without Brady Brady hasn't won anything without being surrounded by HOF level talent on offense and defense. As soon as the talent level around him in NE dropped he bolted to the most talented team in the NFL who just also happened to need a QB. Belichick had an uncanny ability to draft good players late in every round of the draft and then morph his game plan to play to his players strengths. Some years the pats had a dominant defense, sometimes it was the offense, sometimes it was both. Sometimes they'd be a run heavy team, sometimes they'd be a pass defending team. He game planned into whatever maximized the talent on the roster that season, and could even change it up based on opponent game in and game out. After 20 years the talent pool finally ran dry and the wheels fell off, and Brady jumped ship. Brady at his peak wasn't good enough to beat Eli Manning in the Superbowl... twice. Brady won all of his Superbowls either before or after his peak. Strange that the "goat" couldn't win it all at his best, but was carried by his team on multiple other occasions.
WotAGuy Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: I hear you. But Canadian Football Hall of Fame says no. And who was his QB for his two Grey Cup wins? Sonny Wade, who won the Grey Cup MVP both times. Marv had a 43-31 overall record which won’t get you in the HOF; it was his QB who led the way. Just goes to show, even CFL coaches need great players to succeed.
K-9 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 17 hours ago, streetkings01 said: All the credit they got about bringing in Henry and Smith to recreate some offense they had over a decade ago and never a mention about how that 2 TE system worked because of #12. The new Gronk and Hernandez thru 3 games have a total of 14 catches for 143 yards and 0 touchdowns. I haven’t seen the Pats*** yet, but to your point about the TEs, are they using them like Gronk and Hernandez when they’d wait for a favorable sub package by the defense, go to the hurry up, and take advantage of matchups up and down the field?
RoyBatty is alive Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 I take great delight in watching Belichek's apparent demise in the midst of non -stop media fawning all over him. What is really great is watching his teams get called for a lot of penalties (deserved), a lot of fumbles and now rookie interceptions. What was great to see yesterday was the Saints blocking a Pats punt and Jameis Winston, throwinp up a total jump ball....in prior years that was an easy Pat int...yesterday it went for a TD. Belichek looks borderline morbidly obese and as always looks very unhappy. What he is is stil coaching is beyond me. He will not overcome the Belichek-Brady debate as to who created that dynasty, imo the ship has already sailed on that. Belichek looks like a fat flustered bitter old man. Try to accept reality Bill and retire.
Ghost_002! Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, jimmy10 said: Except Tom went on to do Tom things without Bill. Bill hasn’t seemed to be able to do the same. I’m as surprised as anyone, I thought for sure Bill would come out on top in that divorce. He still may, but we haven’t seen it yet. And why is that? did you look at the bucs offensive weapons compared to what Brady had his last year in NE or last year at all? 29 minutes ago, pocoboy said: This is fair. Unfortunately the New England-based ESPN and other sympathetic media types (Ian Crap) are in the tank. First week, Mac Jones is Brady Jr, second week, he's the greatest...and Belichick has been billed as being so ever-loving awesome that this kind of normal trajectory of "rebuild" is utterly impossible for someone with this level of NFL pwnage. So with all of that - deserved that the rest of the league gets to yuck it up a bit at the expense of a fan base that has done absolutely nothing besides bought tickets and supported a guy who has used every underhanded technique to get an edge on an opponent. Sorry. The title of this thread is right - the fraud is that he's like just about every other coach, and is fortunate to have developed perhaps the greatest QB of all time under his watch. This is all hyperbole, there is no NE -based ESPN. There's just fans jealous and tired of hearing about the Pats. Like every sports show is full of hot takes and the hosts saying something to get notice. Everyone show does it and every host does it in every sport... to just about every player. It's what sports shows are now a days. I am sure you are not complaining when GMFB hosts goes completely bat-sh*t crazy about the Bills Edited September 27, 2021 by Ghost_002!
PatsFanNH Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 55 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: I completely 100 percent agree. He didn’t do anything in Cleveland with either Kosar or Testaverde. He went 5-11 two years in a row under Bledsoe. He missed the playoffs when Cassel took over an injured Brady and he didn’t do squat with Newton last year. Belichick is very overrated and it’s starting to show he needs Brady more than Brady needs him. What? 5-11 two years in a row with Bledsoe? He went 1 season with Bledsoe as a starter. in Cleveland he led them to the playoffs his second season then the wheels fell off when the owner announced they were moving. (Also most 1st time HC fail). BB was responsible for drafting Brady and giving him a chance. If Brady went to probably ANY other team he is out of the league in 3 years tops. BB and Brady MADE eachother!
Ghost_002! Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, K-9 said: I haven’t seen the Pats*** yet, but to your point about the TEs, are they using them like Gronk and Hernandez when they’d wait for a favorable sub package by the defense, go to the hurry up, and take advantage of matchups up and down the field? Both TEs have been very disappointing at this point. Barely recorded much for stats. The only players who have been steady in the pats offense so far have been the QB, J.Meyers (at WR) and Damien Harris has had his moments. That's about it at this point. Edited September 27, 2021 by Ghost_002!
BuffaloBills1998 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 1 minute ago, PatsFanNH said: What? 5-11 two years in a row with Bledsoe? He went 1 season with Bledsoe as a starter. in Cleveland he led them to the playoffs his second season then the wheels fell off when the owner announced they were moving. (Also most 1st time HC fail). BB was responsible for drafting Brady and giving him a chance. If Brady went to probably ANY other team he is out of the league in 3 years tops. BB and Brady MADE eachother! I don’t see it. I think it was the other way around. Again you go 5-11 under Bledsoe and all the other times Brady was out he’s lost and hasn’t had success. I’d say Brady helped make Belichick. If Belichick doesn’t draft Brady he’s fired after 2-3 years.
jimmy10 Posted September 27, 2021 Posted September 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ghost_002! said: And why is that? did you look at the bucs offensive weapons compared to what Brady had his last year in NE or last year at all? Well of course it’s more complicated than simply Brady v Bill, nobody plays or coaches in a vacuum. And the whole book has yet to be written, but so far it looks like only one of them is able to find success without the other, that’s all I’m saying. And besides, I still firmly believe that once the right people are dead, years down the road, we’ll learn more about the depth and breadth of the cheating that went on in New England and how tainted that “dynasty” really was. But right now, for whatever reason, the Pats don’t seem to be on firm ground and that’s to be celebrated by Bills fans. The timing with our team’s track couldn’t be better.
Recommended Posts