nucci Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 1 minute ago, TXBILLSFAN said: It is important to understand the two key factors in the economic viability of an NFL team in Buffalo 1- The salary cap, which, for most teams to be competitive, they need to spend close to it, is set based on approximately 50% of the NFL Revenues 2- The revenues that are shared do not include ALL the Revenues that are used to set the salary cap. So, as the total revenues increase, the cap goes up for all teams. Simple example, let's say Cowboys get $640M for local sponsorship for AT&T stadium. Cowboys get $640M. Players get $320M of that in the form of a higher cap, so, each team's cap goes up by $10M (32 x $10). So, Buffalo needs to spend $10M more to stay close to cap and be competitive. Meanwhile, Jerry spends $10 more but gets to pocket $630M ($640M - $10M) Ralph warned of the impact of non-shared revenue on small market teams and there are some formula offsets that redirect additional money to smaller teams like Buffalo, but, nowhere close to make the economics equal. To stay competitive and economically viable, Buffalo has to continue to increase local revenues via higher ticket prices, PSL's, suite sales and sponsorships The money each team receives from TV contracts cover salaries. yes , other teams bring in more revenue but I thought after Ralph died all we needed was a rich owner?
SirAndrew Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: If people want your business's products and services so badly that there is a waiting list to simply buy it from you, and you can charge a premium for the privilege of doing business... that's just good ol American capitalism, my man. Absolutely, but it’s amazing how many businesses destroy their long term prospects for short term greed and instant profit. Once the greed ball starts rolling, most corporations give in to human nature of trying to take more, until people have enough, and they don’t come back. It won’t happen anytime soon, but I truly believe the NFL could derail their own gravy train one day. I suppose we’ll find out.
nucci Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 16 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said: I get the initial knee jerk reaction but these PSLs are practically a mini stock in the team. Bills tix are always in high demand. Inflation through the roof. 5-10years from now, with inflation and the josh allen effect on tickets, and resell on these things could be HIGH. You buy one now for $1k, and in 10yeard they're now $3-5k, you can undercut the team a little and pocket a nice little profit, or leave it in your will to your kids. I'm not saying PSLs are great I'm so thrilled. I'm saying there are def some PROs that go along with having them! Think anyone in GB wanting tix would mind paying for PSLs when they don't have one??? It's hard to get even the RIGHT to buy a psl. What a cool thing to be able to leave in your will to your son or daughter after you pass I mean seriously!!! The sentimental value of gramps leaving you his PSLs in a will would be one of the most sentimental thing you could get in GB! Is GBs fan base thaaaat much better than ours? No! Absolutely not! So within a few years these will be as big a deal here as they are at Lambeau. Just passing a positive spin. Flame away 😈🔥 The only problem is I doubt many seats will be in the 1K price point 1
BillsShredder83 Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, wagon127 said: Yeah, they charge the PSL the first year, our season tickets only double the first year, but then they aggressively raise the prices over the following years, and you then can't afford them anymore, and you just wasted the money. Resell them. Within a few years new PSLs will cost more than a grand. Should be easy to atleasy break even 🤷♂️
WotAGuy Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 40 minutes ago, Gugny said: It shouldn't throw this thread into a spiral. It's a fact. As @K-9 mentioned above - "Over the last generation, the middle class has slowly been priced out of attending sporting events on an increasing basis." Then go back to college, get a degree in liberal arts, and get a higher paying job. I hear there’s a great return on those college degrees. 3
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, dneveu said: 100% they do this. My friends a broker and his rams tickets financed the 10k license over 6 years. How charitable of them. 😝 1
DrDawkinstein Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 33 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: I agree. Use our tax dollars and I expect something in return, which won’t happen. Pegulas need to stay away from our tax money. Billionaires holding our city and team hostage? Pay for it yourself or find another city. Anyone who would be willing to lose the team rather than have tax payers in Albany, Syracuse and NYC have to throw in a few bucks, should have their fan card REVOKED! 1
SirAndrew Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 41 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: I'm sorry but I refuse to believe that someone in the middle class 53,000-106,827 that is willing to spend close to a grand on season tickets is going to be that severely hurt by another grand. Upper Middle Class 106,000-373,894 shouldnt be hurt by it at all. Now thats variable by situation. I am upper middle class by definition, but because of student loans I'll never have season tickets, PSL or no PSL. Lets be real, rich or not, you either have that sort of spending money or you dont. The real issue here is people get pissy about giving another grand to a billionaire. Meanwhile some of those same people are spending that much money or more on a lot more inane things than football tickets. True, but I’m willing to bet there won’t be many season tickets available for a grand anymore. You’re correct, it’s another 1K, but who knows what the actual ticket will cost. 1
GA BILLS FAN Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 19 minutes ago, wjag said: So that was the theory pitched when the expansion Ravens came to town. Buy the PSLs, it's an investment. Here is the fine print... If you fail to renew your seasons, you lose the PSL (hence why I dubbed it the personal sucker license). The team could sell it to the next person all over again. My buddy bought the PSL back in the day. He did sell it for a profit, but after holding it for 10+ years, he made about 1000 on four seats.. If you can sell your PSL to someone else, why would you ever not use it and let team resell
SirAndrew Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 52 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: Great News!! Price out the riff raft. Sunday games should be a family event, not an obnoxious drunken college party. Next, limit alcohol consumption, like the airlines are currently doing. Tickets are always going to up for grabs for cheap once the weather turns if we don’t have a covered stadium.
Rochesterfan Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: I agree. Use our tax dollars and I expect something in return, which won’t happen. Pegulas need to stay away from our tax money. Billionaires holding our city and team hostage? Pay for it yourself or find another city. I don’t get this take at all. This is 100% what they should be doing. It is why I want 100% public financed stadium. The higher the public portion - the lower the PSLs. This was the most obvious thing in the world. Now if we get a 60/40 public/Private financed stadium - The Pegula’s will be looking to make 600,000 in PSLs and new ticket prices. An average of 10,000 per seat. Expect more costs to be coming your way. Edited September 24, 2021 by Rochesterfan 1
SirAndrew Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: I don’t get this take at all. This is 100% what they should be doing. It is why I want 100% public financed stadium. The higher the public portion - the lower the PSLs. This was the most obvious thing in the world. Now if we get a 60/40 public/Private financed stadium - The Pegula’s will be looking to make 600,000 in PSLs and new ticket prices. An average of 10,000 per seat. Expect more costs to be coming your way. That’s fair from a season ticket holder prospective, but not from a taxpayer prospective. I’d assume a season ticket holder already has some disposable income to spend on entertainment. Adding another 1K to the mix, although obnoxious, still gives that person freedom of choice. It doesn’t necessarily hurt the person who’s choosing to spend money on entertainment. Drawing from the taxpayer impacts everyone, in a state that’s already over taxed. Personally, I’d rather pay an extra thousand for something out of choice, then having my taxes increase for the rest of my life.
Doc Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 Higher ticket prices and PSL‘s were always coming with a new stadium. You want a nice new shiny toy? You gotta pay for it. And the money the Pegulas are putting up for the stadium was always eventually going to come from the fans. 2
wjag Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 10 minutes ago, TXBILLSFAN said: If you can sell your PSL to someone else, why would you ever not use it and let team resell It goes with the seats. You have to sell it with the season tix. It's a use, sell or lose proposition. It definitely has value, but it is also an encumbrance when you want to sell it. Most people who want out, know they have to find a buyer for both. But things happen and defaults on season tickets happen too. And in that case, the PSL reverts back to the team for resale. This is how it works in Baltimore. I can't vouch for other teams, but I suspect it is the same. Read the fine print when buying. 1
Rochesterfan Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, SirAndrew said: That’s fair from a season ticket holder prospective, but not from a taxpayer prospective. I’d assume a season ticket holder already has some disposable income to spend on entertainment. Adding another 1K to the mix, although obnoxious, still gives that person freedom of choice. It doesn’t necessarily hurt the person who’s choosing to spend money on entertainment. Drawing from the taxpayer impacts everyone, in a state that’s already over taxed. Personally, I’d rather pay an extra thousand for something out of choice, then having my taxes increase for the rest of my life. That’s fair, but if people are going to complain about the PSLs - there is an option to fix it at a significantly cheaper per person rate and that is to spread it out across everyone in the state. There is no reason the Bills and the Buffalo area do not deserve it because we have funded multiple new Baseball and Hockey stadiums downstate - including significant funding to a stadium built outside the state in NJ. I don’t care either way - I am still going to go to the game, but if people are going to complain about PSL - then stop complaining about the public/private financing. The Pegula’s have been doing a ton to make this as palatable as possible. Their ideal scenario has to be a nice stadium downtown near their other businesses, but they are willing to go smaller to better fit the price point of the market and still people complain like they are being unreasonable. I have no issues if they want 100% private and a massive PSL, but based upon the studies and the surveys season ticket holders have done - it sounds like fans did not want Lots of PSLs - therefore you need more public money. It is costing the 1.4 billion and the public will be paying for it whether it is from taxes and fees or PSLs and ticket prices - either way the people are paying. Edited September 24, 2021 by Rochesterfan 2
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 2 hours ago, nucci said: Similar to airlines charging for luggage Like Virgil said…the definition of greed
corta765 Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 I have always wondered if you are buying single game tickets how does PSL impact that? Like is there any impact? I have always found it strange that basically you could buy secondary market or single game tickets and make a season out of it and not have PSL issue.
TBBills Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 If PSL is keeping you from buying season tickets, you probably shouldn't be buying season tickets.
eball Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 I haven't read through this thread but my overwhelming sentiment to Bills fans is to stop whining like babies. Buffalo fans have reaped the benefit of the cheapest tickets in the NFL for 30 years. Hell, I kept them for 27 years as an out-of-stater because they were so cheap. PSLs have been around for a long time; just be grateful for what we had and acknowledge that we are going to have to finally pay market price to enjoy a nice new stadium. Totally worth it to me. And an ancillary benefit is that more expensive seats means fewer idiots. 5 1 1 1
machine gun kelly Posted September 24, 2021 Posted September 24, 2021 If anyone is remotely surprised by this notice, you've not been paying attention to I believe every new stadium back into the late 90's. The Bucs did it, but back then whatever their cost if they stayed with their seats for 10 years, it would slowly rebate them the money over those 10 years. Since not every one did that with the dot com bust, and the 98 real estate bust, the Bucs pocketed that money, and by 2010, instead of having a 10,000 wait list for seasons, they were having trouble filling the stadium. That idea went out the window and now its a sunk cost. Guys it would have been significantly more for a downtown stadium. I'm sorry for those who have seasons, but I assume you expected it. We wouldn't be any different than any other newer stadium.
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