OT: Are you concerned about Mac Jones?

[TBBills]

3 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

He is not being asked to do too much, that approach has pretty much been recognized. And Brown's "not being on top of their game.." doesn't discredit his experience against them....he been facing heavy pass rushes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yea he sure has Tyrann Mathieu fooled (sarcasm)

Yea b.c I am going to listen to a guy on the worst defense in league history. 

 

 

Many guys can play QB but they are never going to be great at it. Fitz can play QB but you wouldn't want him starting for your team... Yet coaches still tried to do it and players say the same about him that The washed up Honey Badger is saying.

 

 

You are defending him like he is on your team and you bought his jersey.

Edited November 17, 2021 by TBBills

[TBBills]

Tuhrod Taylor is in the same boat yet i bet you wouldn't want him starting for you.

 

Give it a year or two and you won't be singing the same tune.

 

[gomper]

I think the kid is solid and getting better.  I'm actually thinking about starting him over Herbert this week.  Obviously a matchup decision. 

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Yea b.c I am going to listen to a guy on the worst defense in league history. 

 

 

Many guys can play QB but they are never going to be great at it. Fitz can play QB but you wouldn't want him starting for your team... Yet coaches still tried to do it and players say the same about him that The washed up Honey Badger is saying.

 

 

You are defending him like he is on your team and you bought his jersey.

 

FYI Ghost is a Pats fan not a Bills fan.

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

FYI Ghost is a Pats fan not a Bills fan.

Oh ok that makes all the sense now. Homerism I understand, that cannot be helped. We all have that.

Edited November 17, 2021 by TBBills

[KeLLy1278]

54 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Cassell and Garropolo are two perfect examples.  Belichick got the most out of both of these qbs while they were in in New England.  I am not saying they excelled elsewhere.

 

Garrapolo did take the 49ers to the Superbowl howeve, that is really off point.

 

Just expressing my opinion

 

 

Well Matt Cassel did take the Chiefs to the playoffs one year and that had nothing to do with Bill.  Garropolo also has talent but he is fragile and inconsistent.  Both of these QBs are not exactly straight up bums.  They do have some talent.  Bill didn’t really change any of that.  He had Bledsoe in New England and all the papers were calling for his head his second season in.  I think the Pats went like 5-11 and were 0-2 when Brady stepped in so Belichick was already on the hot seat.  How quickly people forget.  It’s almost as though we just eliminate anything that Belichick did before Brady including his forgettable stint with Cleveland.  People tend to forget that as a head coach, Bill accomplished absolutely nothing before Brady.  His winning percentage as head coach was well below .500

 

Yet he’s better than Vince Lombardi, Bill Walsh, Tom Landry, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells?  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

If he plays like he did last week for an extended period of time yes…outside of last week he’s been an effective game manager Ryan tannehill type from what I’ve seen 

[Jauronimo]

Every week Patriots fans on social media commend the "touch" Jones puts on the ball and it never ceases to amuse me.  

 

"The touch on that pass is simply astonishing, every instinct must be to wind it in there into tight coverage.."

 

Dude, he threw it as hard as he could..

[Golden]

Another idea regarding this post:

”Are you concerned about the Pats defense?”

       Yes, somewhat.  Last year our coaching staff was a step ahead of Belichek especially in the 2nd match up.  (They had him totally frustrated as he’s not used to bring out coached.).      
       If we can consistently stay a step ahead of the Patriots coaching staff, with the talent we possess, we’re good to go.  

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

50 minutes ago, Golden said:

Another idea regarding this post:

”Are you concerned about the Pats defense?”

       Yes, somewhat.  Last year our coaching staff was a step ahead of Belichek especially in the 2nd match up.  (They had him totally frustrated as he’s not used to bring out coached.).      
       If we can consistently stay a step ahead of the Patriots coaching staff, with the talent we possess, we’re good to go.  

Tough to gauge their defense. They’ve had a bunch of iffy opponents kind of like us and last Sunday was baker playing injured and no hunt or Chubb. Chargers have been a mess lately against a few opponents 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Golden]

6 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Tough to gauge their defense. They’ve had a bunch of iffy opponents kind of like us and last Sunday was baker playing injured and no hunt or Chubb. Chargers have been a mess lately against a few opponents 

Well said 👍

8 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Tough to gauge their defense. They’ve had a bunch of iffy opponents kind of like us and last Sunday was baker playing injured and no hunt or Chubb. Chargers have been a mess lately against a few opponents 

Great points as well.  My concern is Belichek can get in Allen’s head & frustrate him to the point of reducing him to “Sugar High Josh”.  If there is 1 coach that has the best chance of doing this it would be BB. 

[billsfan89]

I think Mac Jones is a good fit for the Pats system but long term I am not sure he is going to be a consistent top 10 QB for the Pats. I see him more as a Carr type QB who will float between being an average to above average starting QB. 

[Success]

17 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Excellent post.  The Montana/Young comparison actually made me shudder a bit.  One hall of fame QB followed by another hall of fame QB??  What are the chances?  Favre/Rodgers, Montana/Young… it has happened before but it’s obviously atypical to say the least. 
 

No one can know for sure but it’s fun to speculate.  I have seen my share of highlights and lowlights of Jones.  One thing that I hate (as a Bills fan) is that he is not easily flustered.  He makes a bad read, throws a bad pass, fumbles etc.. and he does not let it affect his next series.  He does have a calmness about him which reminds me of Brady & Montana but I hate to even mention him with those two because it’s ridiculous.  As a rookie QB he gets an A so far.  Can I name 10 QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Mac Jones?  Probably not.  But again.. the sample size is tiny so far.  I would take him over Jimmy Garropolo though.  Is that saying much?  It is also noteworthy that the Pats have spent a ton of money this past offseason.  The team is underrated and honestly hasn’t always been well coached since Brady left.  It’s been a mixed bag.  
 

Say Jones comes out this week and has a pitiful performance complete with fumbles and picks.  Will we be having this conversation?  To me this is all prisoner of the moment stuff until Jones has three or four seasons under his belt.  Durability is essential as well.. all remains to be seen.

 

Yeah - I get REALLY scared about the Montana/Young thing. But like you said - it's a very small sample size.

 

You mention Garropolo, and I see a lot of similarities.  I remember being kind of afraid of him in the same way, because he played really well in New England. I still think he's a decent QB, but players can tend to turn into pumpkins again once they leave the safe womb in NE of excellent coaching and superior team-building.  

 

I have to ask, what if one of the other top 5 QB's from last year's draft were in NE?  I think BB would be doing the same with Lawrence or Fields. Probably even Wilson. I hate the Patriots, but they should be the model for QB development throughout the league. Don't put too much on a rookie - design plays around his strengths, and build his confidence before you really give  him the reigns.

 

13 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Concern is not really the right term. Allen is likely much better and will be for the balance of both of their careers. However, a team as well coached as that means no easy 5-6 AFCE titles in a row like we all wanted. He seems like a good player, and I'm fine with that. What I don't like is the the Pats fans didn't have to wait "their turn" for a QB.

 

Really agree w/ that last part. After having the GOAT QB for almost 20 years, you should really have to go to purgatory for awhile.  

 

They jumped to the front of the line again, or so it seems.  I doubt their younger fans even appreciate it.

 

I'm sure the old dudes do.

 

[Success]

6 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

He is not a gun slinger and was not adveristied as such. He doesn't have to be. For the QB position, it's important to have the mind over just having the ability. Yes being mobile makes a difference but that definitely doesn't matter if you game plan and scheme to counter what the defense gives you.

 

Look at Brady and look at Rodgers. Rodgers has way more ability than Brady, but Brady is the more successful one out of the two. 

 

 

 

 

Um....coaching?  Better team construction & organization?

 

6 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

 

 

in fact-look at Mahomes with that ability he has...and he only won 1 SB and got his a** kicked last SB.  And might not go back to another one this year. This game is so much more than just the players ability. Reason why BB is so successful. 

 

 

 

The bolded is hilarious.  He's 26...and he only has 2 SB appearances and 1 ring?  Golly.

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

5 hours ago, Golden said:

Another idea regarding this post:

”Are you concerned about the Pats defense?”

       Yes, somewhat.  Last year our coaching staff was a step ahead of Belichek especially in the 2nd match up.  (They had him totally frustrated as he’s not used to bring out coached.).      
       If we can consistently stay a step ahead of the Patriots coaching staff, with the talent we possess, we’re good to go.  

 

no.

 

He was pissed he couldn’t get JA. 

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

On 9/22/2021 at 1:52 PM, Success said:

Not sure if this is appropriate for this forum, but I was curious what other Bills fans were thinking up to this point.  It's hard for me to put in perspective because I have such a psychosis when it comes to the Pats. I was worried about Jimmy G, and even Stidham.

 

But the Mac hype is officially through the roof. When I'm on general NFL boards or twitter, it seems to be accepted that he is "the best of all the rookie QB's so far," and Pats fans think they got the steal of the draft.

 

Being obsessive about these things, I watched all of the passes from their 1st 2 games. There is no doubt he is accurate, and seems poised in the pocket.  The main thing I saw was more related to coaching - they really set the plays up for him to succeed.  He takes almost no risks at all.  Most passes are short outs or check downs (not disparaging those things, because they can be effective).   I saw nothing that made me think he could do what around 20 or so current QB's could do w/ that same coaching and in that system.

 

Which, of course, reminds me of Brady's early years. Brady transcended that and became a guy who could take over games and lead big comebacks.  I can't help but ask, was that because he was developed properly, and can New England do the same thing w/ Mac?  Or is Brady just Brady, and expecting the same progression for Mac is unlikely at best?

 

Naturally, I'm hoping we don't have a Montana/Young thing going there, and it's still extremely early. I'm just curious if anyone else has any thoughts on it so far.....

 

Speaking as a Pats fan, I am excited because he gets better every week but more importantly he doesn’t have to do it on his own. They got 2 other very good draft picks in Baremore and Stevenson add in Bourne, Judon, and Henry in FA and the Pats look like a Good team.  SB Team? I think they are a few players away from that.

 

As for Jones I think he will be the second best QB from this draft. I see Wilson, Lance being busts with Lawrence as the stud QB and Fields being an OK starter IF they get a real HC in Chicago. 

[Ghost_002!]

9 hours ago, Logic said:

As to your first two paragraphs: you're still talking about the past. I'm talking about the present. Brady is literally the ONLY example of an immobile, throwback pocket passer playing at a consistently elite level in the NFL RIGHT NOW. Every other guy you can name in the top 10 of quarterback play year to year has mobility, athleticism, etc. Further, when I talk about mobility in QBs, it doesn't mean QBs that run for 500 yards a year. I'm talking about pocket mobility, escaping pressure, rolling out to the left and right, making off-platform throws, and also the athleticism and improvisatory ability to make off-structure plays.


With regard to the question of whether or not a given quarterback can elevate their team when things aren't going well: Simply look at the Browns' situation with Baker Mayfield right now. When the defense and running game are humming, they win games. When either of those things aren't functioning well, Mayfield has not proven over the past couple of seasons that he can routinely lift the team up, carry them on his back, and win football games. Put another way, he's not much more than a game manager who NEEDS a great supporting roster in order to succeed. BECAUSE he hasn't shown the ability to transcend that and to produce at a high level in the passing game, the Browns aren't sure whether or not they want to spend big money on him.

I do not doubt that Jones can be a good care-taker of the football and can win games when paired with a defense and running game. I'm questioning whether or not he'll be able to elevate his team when those two things aren't going well.


 

 

The QBs i named still play right? Unless i misunderstood you. You made mentioned to Jones not being mobile enough to succeed like his counterparts. Are his counterparts collecting hardware left and right? I have acknowledged that the league has evolved, i myself wanted Fields over Jones for that very reason, but to sit here and claim he Jones is not gonna be able to win a playoff game, put a team on his back or win a championship because he doesn't have the capabilities of his counterparts is ridiculous. Because 1. he is only a rookie, you don't have a clue what he is going to do or be capable of, and there is much more to the game then having a athletic QB. That's exactly where i'm coming from.

 

You also mentioned being able to slide in the pocket, roll out, etc... Have you watched a Mac Jones game? He exactly does that...he has slide up, slide back in the pocket. They have had design rollouts for him, and he has escaped the pockets to get a few gains and slide down....so he can do enough to avoid the sack (without being mobile), which the term "pocket presence" is a trait a QB needs to have in order to be able to succeed in this league. 

8 hours ago, TBBills said:

Yea b.c I am going to listen to a guy on the worst defense in league history. 

 

 

Many guys can play QB but they are never going to be great at it. Fitz can play QB but you wouldn't want him starting for your team... Yet coaches still tried to do it and players say the same about him that The washed up Honey Badger is saying.

 

 

You are defending him like he is on your team and you bought his jersey.

 

 

yea why would you listen to an actual NFL pro baller who is playing in the league right now....(sarcasm) 

8 hours ago, TBBills said:

Oh ok that makes all the sense now. Homerism I understand, that cannot be helped. We all have that.

 

 

Yea, so i guess all the bills fans who have said something positive about Jones must be a patriots fan to..ha ha....you are making so much sense. i swear (Sarcasm)

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[Ghost_002!]

3 hours ago, Success said:

 

Um....coaching?  Better team construction & organization?

 

 

The bolded is hilarious.  He's 26...and he only has 2 SB appearances and 1 ring?  Golly.

 

 

 

Oh so you are acknowledging there is much more than just having a mobile/athletic QB to win......Thank you. please come back and try to prove me wrong, you do sooo well at it, time and time again. And yea..as great as he is and as much as he has accomplished. If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring. KC needed more than just him in the SB last season. Seeing he doesn't have a defense now again, and he was very lucky when they played the packers Rodgers was not there. Because he, the whole team have been playing very suspect so far. I mean this board had a thread doubt KC being "paper champions" sooo. 

Edited November 18, 2021 by Ghost_002!

[P Riv]

Jones is a game manager, but he's proving to be a very good game manager.  Where that goes after his rookie year I have no idea, but its clearly working right now.  

I guess it depends on if Josh McDaniels gets a HC gig somewhere.  Who will continue the developmental process after this season?  

[BillsFan692]

Show us on the doll where the patriots touched you