OT: Are you concerned about Mac Jones?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Well Matt Cassel did take the Chiefs to the playoffs one year and that had nothing to do with Bill.

 

True.  But it probably had a lot to do with Charlie Weiss as his OC, who NOT coincidentally was Brady's OC his first 4 years in NE.  The previous year under Haley and the subsequent year under Bill Muir, Cassel kind of sucked.

 

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

 Garropolo also has talent but he is fragile and inconsistent.  Both of these QBs are not exactly straight up bums.  They do have some talent.  

 

Both Cassel and Garrapolo have some talent in the sense that they can play in the NFL, sure, but is it fair to say they were or are not "franchise guys"? 

 

Can't speak for the guy you're responding to, but my point would be that a good coach and a good system have helped lift the apparent talent of average guys and help them find (at least a few years) of success where they likely would have fizzled with a crap team and poor coaching. 

 

So to the topic of the thread, yes, Mac Jones shows promise, and I'll wait and see.

 

20 hours ago, KeLLy1278 said:

Bill didn’t really change any of that.  He had Bledsoe in New England and all the papers were calling for his head his second season in.  I think the Pats went like 5-11 and were 0-2 when Brady stepped in so Belichick was already on the hot seat.  How quickly people forget.  It’s almost as though we just eliminate anything that Belichick did before Brady including his forgettable stint with Cleveland.  People tend to forget that as a head coach, Bill accomplished absolutely nothing before Brady.  His winning percentage as head coach was well below .500

 

Au contraire, a lot of people remember that and use it to discredit Belichick.  But just as players can develop and change, so too can coaches.  It's all about how driven they are, and how committed they are to a "growth mindset" and improvement.

 

[BillsFan4]

 

kurt Warner seems impressed.

[PatsFanNH]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

True.  But it probably had a lot to do with Charlie Weiss as his OC, who NOT coincidentally was Brady's OC his first 4 years in NE.  The previous year under Haley and the subsequent year under Bill Muir, Cassel kind of sucked.

 

 

Both Cassel and Garrapolo have some talent in the sense that they can play in the NFL, sure, but is it fair to say they were or are not "franchise guys"? 

 

Can't speak for the guy you're responding to, but my point would be that a good coach and a good system have helped lift the apparent talent of average guys and help them find (at least a few years) of success where they likely would have fizzled with a crap team and poor coaching. 

 

So to the topic of the thread, yes, Mac Jones shows promise, and I'll wait and see.

 

 

Au contraire, a lot of people remember that and use it to discredit Belichick.  But just as players can develop and change, so too can coaches.  It's all about how driven they are, and how committed they are to a "growth mindset" and improvement.

 

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

[BillsFan4]

37 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

I agree that many college QBs fail because they’re set up to fail by the teams that draft them. Also agree that the Patriots know how to put a QB in position to have success (better than most teams do, if not all). 

 

Not sure I agree that you can’t teach a player how to process what they’re seeing faster. We see QBs improve on that all the time. Look at Josh Allen from year 1 to 2 to 3. We see a lot of young QBs come into the NFL and have trouble getting through their reads, only to improve over time. Even the best QBs improved at more quickly processing what they see over time. I watched Tom Brady greatly improve at it over the years. Some of it just comes down to experience with NFL defensive looks and film study (etc).

 

Now obviously not every QB can improve in that area. Many never do.

But it is an area of common improvement for many starting NFL QBs IMO.

 

I do think that Mac Jones appears to be way ahead of the curve at processing what he’s seeing as a rookie. Is it at a special level? I think that’s TBD.

 

I have no issue saying that I’m worried about how good this kid is going to be. I hate that he fell right into NE’s lap, especially without even having to trade up! 🤬 😂. He’s such a perfect fit for your team and looks like he could be really good for many years to come. As a rookie he’s already the 2nd best QB in the AFCE.

 

Im really anxious to see how he does against the Bills defense. They’re excellent at disguising coverage. It’ll be a good test for Jones, and the Bills too.

The battle for the AFCE this year could be really intense between the Bills and Pats. Should be interesting for sure.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 hours ago, Ghost_002! said:

Oh so you are acknowledging there is much more than just having a mobile/athletic QB to win......Thank you. please come back and try to prove me wrong, you do sooo well at it, time and time again. And yea..as great as he is and as much as he has accomplished. If KC didn't have a defense he would not have won a ring. KC needed more than just him in the SB last season. Seeing he doesn't have a defense now again, and he was very lucky when they played the packers Rodgers was not there. Because he, the whole team have been playing very suspect so far. I mean this board had a thread doubt KC being "paper champions" sooo. 

 

"Paper Tigers".  "Paper Champions" isn't a thing, though I suppose it could be.

 

What exactly are we supposed to be "proving you wrong" about?  Every Championship team needs a good defense, usually a top-10 defense on points that peaks at the end of the season. 

 

The years the Pats won the Superbowls their D was 7th, 1st, 8th, 2nd, 1st, 6th

 

A QB also needs a sound OL too.  For years, the Pat's secret weapon was "Coach Scar", long-time OL coach Dante Scarnecchia who had the ability to mold cutout bin scraps and JAGs into a solid OL anchored by a long-time center and LT

[PatsFanNH]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

I agree that many college QBs fail because they’re set up to fail by the teams that draft them. Also agree that the Patriots know how to put a QB in position to have success (better than most teams do, if not all). 

 

Not sure I agree that you can’t teach a player how to process what they’re seeing faster. We see QBs improve on that all the time. Look at Josh Allen from year 1 to 2 to 3. We see a lot of young QBs come into the NFL and have trouble getting through their reads, only to improve over time. Even the best QBs improved at more quickly processing what they see over time. I watched Tom Brady greatly improve at it over the years. Some of it just comes down to experience with NFL defensive looks and film study (etc).

 

Now obviously not every QB can improve in that area. Many never do.

But it is an area of common improvement for many starting NFL QBs IMO.

 

I do think that Mac Jones appears to be way ahead of the curve at processing what he’s seeing as a rookie. Is it at a special level? I think that’s TBD.

 

I have no issue saying that I’m worried about how good this kid is going to be. I hate that he fell right into NE’s lap, especially without even having to trade up! 🤬 😂. He’s such a perfect fit for your team and looks like he could be really good for many years to come. As a rookie he’s already the 2nd best QB in the AFCE.

 

Im really anxious to see how he does against the Bills defense. They’re excellent at disguising coverage. It’ll be a good test for Jones, and the Bills too.

The battle for the AFCE this year could be really intense between the Bills and Pats. Should be interesting for sure.

Question.. is learning to read defenses taught or something a QB just learns threw time? (Via game film and personal knowledge.). Also I called Jones elite, but elite in the area of being a rookie and processing, (not that he is better than say Allen or Brady or many vets)  I heard a few talking heads say he was the best at this skill than any other rookie QB as well. 
 

this season is definitely a two team race for the East. I expect the Bills pull it off because they have the experience but I’ll still cheer hard for my Pats prove me wrong.  

[bigduke6]

am i worried about Mac Jones?  not as of right now.   he really isnt doing all that much tbh.  the Pats are playing well mostly due to the running game and defense.    in the future?  mbe.  hes a rookie,  and against elite defenses he will struggle much more than he has.  i consider the Bills D more than capable enough to shut him down if he needs to throw for 30+ times.   right now,  im more worried about the Pats run game tbh.

[Mr. WEO]

wake me when Jones learns the "toe pop"...

[TheFunPolice]

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

[bigduke6]

25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

im the opposite here,   Brady doesnt bother me,  Belichick still does.    until hes gone i wont give up my hatred of NE.    hes a very good coach,  i still wonder how much of his early success was being good,  or being dirty.  ie,  cheating.    theres always been alot of smoke swirling around his time in NE.  where theres smoke,  theres usually fire.   hes been caught,  but has he really been caught?   usually we only see the very outside of the whole picture.  taping peoples practices was pretty low tho.     

[Success]

33 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

I've come to realize that my deep, unbridled hatred of NE was due to Brady.

 

Now I just don't feel anything as it relates to them. They're just like the Chargers to me now: good team, good record, in our way. But I just don't feel the hate. That's all gone to Tampa Bay now. 

 

IN FACT, Mac Jones being decent and NE being good (but not too good) just takes away from the "it was all Brady" narrative, so I don't mind at all, so long as we beat them when it matters. 

 

I wish I felt that way.  I actually realized when Brady left that it was more about BB & the fans there.  I didn't mind Brady at all once he was in Tampa.

 

Boston sports in general is a nemesis for me, being a Yankees & Knicks fan also.  Their teams have had such enormous success over the past 20 or so.  The fans are cartoonishly arrogant - which I suppose would happen to any fanbase, but it's still annoying.

 

[Heitz]

Officially Concerned (tm)

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

In order of concern:

*
Mac Jones.

*
Mack the Knife

[RoyBatty is alive]

Yes.  

 

After all the Brady non-sense the anti-Christ Belichek lucks out with Mac Jones dropping to him.

 

I am starting to that Mac Jones and that arrogant smirk.

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, PatsFanNH said:

Question.. is learning to read defenses taught or something a QB just learns threw time? (Via game film and personal knowledge.). Also I called Jones elite, but elite in the area of being a rookie and processing, (not that he is better than say Allen or Brady or many vets)  I heard a few talking heads say he was the best at this skill than any other rookie QB as well. 
 

this season is definitely a two team race for the East. I expect the Bills pull it off because they have the experience but I’ll still cheer hard for my Pats prove me wrong.  

I think it’s both. Learning to read a defense is definitely something that is taught but I also think it’s something that improves through time.

 

Coaches teach QBs how to read different defensive coverages, where their passing windows are, how to identify reads and pre + post snap coverages, etc.

 

for ex:

 

https://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2015/7/27/8974817/how-gus-malzahn-teaches-quarterbacks-to-recognize-defensive-coverages

 

But I do think that some QBs are more naturally gifted at it. Some just seem to be able to process what they’re seeing quicker than others.

 

Jones does seem gifted when it comes to processing the game. But I’m also sure it’s helped him to be around 2 of the best defensive minds in football (Saban and Belichick). I’d imagine both had plenty of pointers on how to dissect a defense.

and he sounds like a student of the game who puts in a ton of work (always in the playbook, always studying film, always practicing). 

 

Josh Allen has talked about how much Brian Daboll has helped him understand how to read defenses and what cues to look for, how to dissect coverages, etc. He said his intimate knowledge on the workings of the defense (from being a defensive coach) has been invaluable. He also talked about how different people have helped him learn how to watch film “better”. He didn’t receive much high level coaching before the NFL though, so he was behind the curve.

 

 

Yeah the Buffalo vs. New England games this year are going to be really exciting (and nerve-racking I’m sure). Those 2 games are going to be crucial for either team to win the division, and maybe even make the playoffs with how jumbled the AFC standings are this year. I could definitely see us splitting those 2 games (1-1). 

[without a drought]

My ankle is a little concerned about him.

[FilthyBeast]

PFF has Mac Jones graded as the #1 QB in the NFL against zone coverage at 91.3 overall.

 

To say this should be a major concern against Frazier and McD's defense is an understatement.

 

I'm utterly mystified how this guy can be so good and the Pats apparently didn't need to wait until the 6th round this time to find another Brady.

[KeLLy1278]

40 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Yes.  

 

After all the Brady non-sense the anti-Christ Belichek lucks out with Mac Jones dropping to him.

 

I am starting to that Mac Jones and that arrogant smirk.

He talks like a programmed robot void of any personality whatsoever.  Belichick probably just sat him down and said “you are going to say one of five things to the media no matter what they ask you, and here’s what they are.”  
 

I’ve heard some people ask if the Pats can win a SB with Jones.  The answer is a resounding yes.  I have seen Denver win a SB with Peyton Manning who was a complete shell of himself.  The defense was both the offense & defense on that team.  Now.. that was obviously a furious defense that didn’t even allow opposing teams to run an offense.  
 

To sum this up I said it before and I’ll say it again.. others have already mentioned it:  Let’s not be prisoners of the moment.  The kid is a rookie who happens to be performing well thus far.  No more, no less.  Let’s not put him in the hall of fame just yet.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

IMO the reason so many “great” College QBs fail is because they go to a terrible team and usually a rookie or inexperience HC.  I agree with you that Jones is succeeding here because of BB and McDaniels and dare say any of the other 5 minus Wilson probably would look ok. The one thing IMO Jones is better at than any of them is processing what he sees on the field fast. You can’t teach or coach that. 

Jones absolutely is a fast processor but it's absolutely something that is learnable 

 

The majority of all QBs improve in this department as they get experience and see more defense's 

 

Allen absolutely struggled as a rookie their and has grown leaps and bounds ... 10 fold improvement

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Jones absolutely is a fast processor but it's absolutely something that is learnable 

 

The majority of all QBs improve in this department as they get experience and see more defense's 

 

Allen absolutely struggled as a rookie their and has grown leaps and bounds ... 10 fold improvement

I am asking so please don’t take this as an attack.. my question is can he still be fooled by the better D’s in the league? I know P Mannin and Brady for like the last 10 years they can have off games but rarely are fooled by a D. Has Allen elevated there yet? 
 

As for Jones I see a long career for him as long as he keeps the quick release and reads going, and improving.  That’s the one way he is very Brady like is the fast release. (No he isn’t Brady or as good as Brady but has that trait)