Does McD have the guts to make the call Harbaugh made?

[Chandler#81]

OP, I don’t know that Any HC has the stones to do that. “Lamar, you wanna go for this?” 
Maybe it was just a cute stunt in the thickness of the moment. No QB worth his salt would say ‘no coach, I don’t think we can make it..’

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yes McD didnt do well in the AFCCG but yesterday he went for it on 4th and 1 up 21-0.  If anything AFCCG was the aberration.  

 

Not sure about that. It seemed to continue in the Steelers game which contributed to the loss.

 

And finally finding the guts to go for it when you are up 21-0 doesnt instill much confidence that he has it figured out.

 

Hoping he does as the season goes on.

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

He knew his defense wasn't stopping Mahomes in that situation.  It's an easy call when you're looking across the field at one of the 5 GOAT QBs.  And I believe McDermott makes the same call there.

 

 

lol, what situation?  The 2 Chiefs possessions before that Ravens 4th and 1?  Int and punt.

 

The Mahomes situation in the potential game winning drive AFTER the Ravens score.....fumble.

 

Ravnes D shut down the Chiefs for the entire 4th Q, so, no.

 

22 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yes, I think he absolutely does.

McDermott was one of the most aggressive 4th and 1 coaches in the league last year.

 

 

 

This would have been his call...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Chandler#81 said:

OP, I don’t know that Any HC has the stones to do that. “Lamar, you wanna go for this?” 
Maybe it was just a cute stunt in the thickness of the moment. No QB worth his salt would say ‘no coach, I don’t think we can make it..’

 

IMO, he already had the decision made when he asked Lamar. Asking Lamar was simply to motivate him to go get that yard. He knew what the answer was going to be, and already decided it was what he wanted to do.

 

Harbaugh, Belichick, and others make that decision. Probably pretty easily. I'm looking forward to McD growing into that type of HC.

[machine gun kelly]

YES

[Bob in STL]

I believe that McD would make that call.
 

I also believe that most of you would crucify him if the offense failed to convert.  
 

The best calls are always the ones that work and hindsight is always 20-20.  

[TheBrownBear]

5 minutes ago, elijah said:

Does McD need the guts to make the call Harbaugh made? 

 

I forget the exact scenario last night, but it was something like BAL ball on their own 40, KC with 0 timeouts with about a minute left

 

If Baltimore doesn’t get it, KC needs 5 yards for FG range and 15 for a ‘safe’ field goal. If Baltimore punts KC has about 50 seconds to go ~45-55 yards with no timeouts. 

 

This was more of a ballsy call than the right call in my opinion. If Baltimore doesn’t get this first that’s a head scratching play call with the Ravens almost certainly looking at 0-2. I’m all aboard the go for it on 4th down train, but that one was not one of the times I would’ve supported it. 

As far as I'm concerned, if you can definitively end the game with 1 yard, you take those odds (with some caveats, like if they had been in easy FG range to stretch the lead from 1 to 4 or something). 

 

So much of that decision came down to them having only a 1 point lead.  If it's a 3 point lead, he almost certainly punts, since you're highly unlikely to lose the game in regulation.

[2003Contenders]

11 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not sure about that. It seemed to continue in the Steelers game which contributed to the loss.

 

And finally finding the guts to go for it when you are up 21-0 doesnt instill much confidence that he has it figured out.

 

Hoping he does as the season goes on.

Well, let's recall that McD DID go for it on 4th down multiple times in the Pittsburgh game. The Bills went 0-3 in those situations, which is more of a testimony to the poor play calling (especially on the pitch play) and execution than to McD lacking the stones to go for it. And, if the Bills convert on any one of those plays, then the outcome of that game may very well (and probably WOULD) have been different.

[DrDawkinstein]

5 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

I believe that McD would make that call.
 

I also believe that most of you would crucify him if the offense failed to convert.  
 

The best calls are always the ones that work and hindsight is always 20-20.  

 

If its the exact same situation, and he calls a simple sneak with Josh... and we DONT make it, McD is the last on my list to be pissed at.

 

Then the focus turns to Morse and the OGs, and why they are unable to pick up 3 simple feet with a 6'5" beast taking the snap.

 

But yes, you are right, there will be people here who complain about it either way. Can't please everyone, and folks on the internet LOVE to be right in hindsight

[YattaOkasan]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Not sure about that. It seemed to continue in the Steelers game which contributed to the loss.

 

And finally finding the guts to go for it when you are up 21-0 doesnt instill much confidence that he has it figured out.

 

Hoping he does as the season goes on.

Hmm... he had a couple of 4th and shorts in the FIRST half that he didnt go for.  I think thats a slightly different conversation than 4th quarter game on the line. 

 

Additionally he did go for it 4th and 1 in the 3rd quarter up 10-6.  That was the Sutton play that gave the ball in mid field, and Pitt turned that short field into a TD.  I dont know how win probabilities change but I assume first half aggression is less meaningful than second half.

 

Do you still think his lack of aggression in the first half of that game contributed to the loss when compared to his willingness to do so in the second half?

[OrediggerPoke]

4th and 1 with the game on the line….I call a Josh Allen naked boot and let him be you know Josh Allen.  If the corner stays home, that poor guy is going to get blasted.  

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, OrediggerPoke said:

4th and 1 with the game on the line….I call a Josh Allen naked boot and let him be you know Josh Allen.  If the corner stays home, that poor guy is going to get blasted.  

4th and 1 I give Allen the ball on a sneak.  He has a crazy good success rate on those plays.  But yes let Josh be Josh.

Edited September 20, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[OrediggerPoke]

Just now, YattaOkasan said:

4th and 1 I give Allen the ball on a sneak.  He has a crazy good success rate on those plays.

Nope.  We are going to convert either way with the ball in Josh’s hands.  The naked boot will demoralize them completely.  

[JY422]

sure wish our O-Line would get the same kind of push that the Ravens line gets.  

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, elijah said:

 If Baltimore punts KC has about 50 seconds to go ~45-55 yards with no timeouts. 

 

 

But still needing just a FG. You always go for it there.

[DrDawkinstein]

15 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Hmm... he had a couple of 4th and shorts in the FIRST half that he didnt go for.  I think thats a slightly different conversation than 4th quarter game on the line. 

 

Additionally he did go for it 4th and 1 in the 3rd quarter up 10-6.  That was the Sutton play that gave the ball in mid field, and Pitt turned that short field into a TD.  I dont know how win probabilities change but I assume first half aggression is less meaningful than second half.

 

Do you still think his lack of aggression in the first half of that game contributed to the loss when compared to his willingness to do so in the second half?

 

Indeed, that is what I was referring to. The calls earlier in the game that would have likely sustained drives and gotten us points, so we go into halftime 16-0 or even 17-0.  Dont wait until the 4th quarter to find the killer instinct. Put them away early and keep your foot on their throat, imo.

 

By the 2nd half it was too late. Glad he FINALLY decided to go for it, but at that point they were playing not to lose.

 

edit: Half of this post was inspired by the specific situation. Late in the game, up by 1 point, against KC. But the other half was inspired by using your 6'5" STALLION to pick up 3 feet, anytime and every time, regardless of the situation. Should be an easy, automatic call. To the point the Offense should have a hot call, where if it's 3rd and short or 4th and short, Josh is yelling something and everyone knows to line up quick and go on the silent count. For examples, see: The Patriots Dynasty.

Edited September 20, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[transient]

Baltimore put up 251 yds rushing at a 6+ ypc clip on that KC defense last night... was that REALLY that surprising of a call? I think it would have been more surprising if they hadn't gone for it.

[YattaOkasan]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Indeed, that is what I was referring to. The calls earlier in the game that would have likely sustained drives and gotten us points, so we go into halftime 16-0 or even 17-0.  Dont wait until the 4th quarter to find the killer instinct. Put them away early and keep your foot on their throat, imo.

 

By the 2nd half it was too late. Glad he FINALLY decided to go for it, but at that point they were playing not to lose.

K I disagree that First half is killer instinct time, but understand the logic.  He was really good last year.  He was good yesterday.  I dont think not going for it during those two times CONTRIBUTED to the loss to Pitt.  Our offense wasn't looking too good (see the countless posts on Josh allen regression 2021) so I don't have a qualm with those decisions.  Again first half and only mid field for both of those.

 

Do you think we should have gone for it from 4 and 5+ but inside the 10?  I have more of a bone to pick with those (especially the one in the 4th quarter) than the two 4th and 1s in the first half.  

[TH3]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

1:00 left, 4th and 1...

 

Do you punt the ball and trust your Defense against Mahomes? Or do you poll your star QB and listen to his feedback (which will obviously be "go for it")?

 

 

 

Going for it is Playing to Win. Punting is Playing not to lose.

 

We FINALLY called a Josh sneak on 4th and 1 yesterday. But it kills me that it isnt an automatic, easy call every time it's 3rd/4th and 1.

 

I'd like to think that McD would have some killer instinct in this situation, but a bigger part of me is pretty certain he would punt and lean on our Defense.

Didn't he get roasted for going for it last week with a super aggressive 4 and 1 play that lost 5 yards? 

[RobbRiddick]

It wasn't so much guts as "***** it, these guys always beat us so we might as well just go for it"