Williams needs to be benched

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

I'm combining penalties, he had false starts. 1 hold, 2 false starts, he gave up the TJ Watt sack fumble, and also given up on every other play before the whistle. I may not have all the stats but I watched the game.

 

I watch the games too and I watch the stats.

Every Buffalo Bill starting OL player has had a holding call this year.  Dawkins has 3.

Should they bench the whole OL?

 

My point is Williams is not a "penalty machine".  I mentioned his False Starts he had yesterday but that is completely out of character

for him.  As a matter of fact from 2016-2020 he had a total of 9 penalties in 72 games (57 starts).  That is pretty darn good.

I say this because you may just have some bias due to yesterdays game.  Maybe so?

[HardyBoy]

9 hours ago, Beast said:

 

Pittsburgh better finish number 1 in defense this season to even be considered in the top 50. Quite frankly, I don't see any dominant defenses currently in the NFL.

 

9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Pittsburgh definitely has a top 3-5 defense in the league this year....

 

Top 50 all time??? Wait till the dust settles  

 

Miami dolphins??? 

 

Gtfoh ...

Maybe I should refine this a bit. It is very hard to compare defenses across eras, so I am not going to. Players are bigger, faster, stronger today than even 20 years ago. The schemes are more complex and the coverages more exotic.

If you put a modern nfl offense against even the 85 Bears as they were schemed and constructed they would get destroyed.
 

Josh Allen is playing against the most difficult to read defensive schemes in the history of the league. Game plans are being designed by machine learning models that can predict scarily well what a team is likely to do in various situations way better than people can. Unadjusted for era, even mediocre defenses today are much better than defenses in the past, especially pre the 2002 bucs I would say. 
 

You can say all you want how dominant sprinters from different eras were against their competition, but fact is world records get broken every year. Does not mean that the sprinters from former eras are were bad, or even that if they were in their primes today they wouldn’t be setting world records, but the game keeps improving. 
 

So, in absolute terms, unadjusted for era, I would feel pretty confident saying that the healthy 2021 Steelers defense is one of the most challenging to play against all time. You stick them in 1985, they would be historic (shoot, last years Bills defense would be historic if you stuck them in 1985). Flip it, and stick the 85 Bears in the league today and they’d get run off the field. 
 

You know what, I’ve been getting such strong reactions to my posts the last two days, I’m just going to go all in!
 

The 1985 Bears and the 1986 Giants defenses are mediocre by today’s standards.

 

[JerseyBills]

He wasn't that bad vs Mia. Josh routinely had plenty of time in the pocket. 

Week 1 , the whole line was awful. 

But if Williams does have a bad year , maybe Doyle can fill in at RT? Or preferably Brown. 

I seen someone say they're grooming him for RT but he's the swing T , so I'm sure he's gotten plenty reps on the right side too

[AuntieEm]

12 hours ago, Beast said:

 

You are saying the 2021 Steelers and Dolphins are top 50 defenses of all-time? I just want to be clear before I comment further.

 

     Dunno if you can compare across eras that easily.  Todays cbs playing by today's rules or another eras pass rules.  Would be a big difference. I don't see today's cbs taking on a Franco Harris  with a full head of steam behind him.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, AuntieEm said:

     

     Not many teams were built to stop teams with a even just average passing games by todays standards they'd be top dogs in some eras. In others they'd fall short and be bottom feeders.

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by AuntieEm
Corrections

[3rdand12]

13 hours ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

In both the steelers and Miami game he has been a revolving door or a holding penalty. He's a complete liability for our oline.

He is clearly not himself this year. They paid him for good reason.
 But yes i might rotate Spencer in if he was able.
whole line kinda blows this season though. except Morse maybe
Give it awhile. Let it ride ,as They say

[Motor26]

6 hours ago, ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin said:

I have been pretty open about not being thrilled with 2 project OTs in the last draft, but this topic makes me wonder if Mc Beane looked ahead a bit or saw something on tape with Williams.

 

Williams may be good enough to hold down the RT position this year, or maybe even half the year, and the plan is to kick Williams back inside to OG (another area of JAGs at best) and have Brown or Doyle take the RT position. Doyle underwhelmed but Brown was progressing. I wonder if this is the midterm thinking?

 

To be fair, Williams has had some tough draws the last 3-4 games. I thought he would recover some against Miami. Next week won't be any easier with Young and Sweat.

Brown isn’t really a project like Doyle is. Brown was pretty highly regarded during the draft, and was a 3rd round pick. I think Brown will be starting before the year is over, possibly after the bye.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Motor26

[bobobonators]

16 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

The Steelers dline, Hayden and Fitzpatrick, no question there IMO if they can stay healthy. 
 

The dolphins secondary is really, really good. That one might be a bit of a stretch in terms of top 50, but as far as matchup problems for this Bills offense, I would say absolutely this would be one of the 50 hardest defenses for them to match up against in the history of the league (yes I know how much the game has changed). 

Man, can you sit back for a second and just think about what youre saying. Just break it down and lets walk it through together. You are claiming these two defenses are top 50 all time. Lets not even count all-time bc it’s just silly and i refuse to entertain it. Instead, lets pretend the NFL began in 2000. Thats 20+ yrs of football. Now, lets take the top 3 defenses in the NFL each of those seasons. Those are really damn good defenses to be in the top 3. That over 60 amazing defenses just in 20+yrs of football. Yet somehow after 2 weeks the dolphins are among the top 50 defenses of all time? Dude. 
 

This Steelers defense isnt even the best Steelers defense of all time, let alone top 50 NFL all time.  Its probably not even among the top 3 Steelers defenses of all time. Did you watch the 2008 Steelers obliterate everyone? You ever hear of the Steel Curtain? They werent given that name bc of their offensive prowess. 
 

The Legion of Boom for multiple years. The Broncos that won the SB w Miller. The Bucs that won the SB w the Tampa 2 in the 2000s. The dolphins in the 70s. The Bears in the 80s. The Bears w Urlacher in the 2000s. Heck even the Bills defense that finished top 3 back in the day under Wade Phillips would B word slap this Dolphins defense. Yikes man. Thats just off the top of my head with zero research. 

[bobobonators]

6 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Maybe I should refine this a bit. It is very hard to compare defenses across eras, so I am not going to. Players are bigger, faster, stronger today than even 20 years ago. The schemes are more complex and the coverages more exotic.

If you put a modern nfl offense against even the 85 Bears as they were schemed and constructed they would get destroyed.
 

Josh Allen is playing against the most difficult to read defensive schemes in the history of the league. Game plans are being designed by machine learning models that can predict scarily well what a team is likely to do in various situations way better than people can. Unadjusted for era, even mediocre defenses today are much better than defenses in the past, especially pre the 2002 bucs I would say. 
 

You can say all you want how dominant sprinters from different eras were against their competition, but fact is world records get broken every year. Does not mean that the sprinters from former eras are were bad, or even that if they were in their primes today they wouldn’t be setting world records, but the game keeps improving. 
 

So, in absolute terms, unadjusted for era, I would feel pretty confident saying that the healthy 2021 Steelers defense is one of the most challenging to play against all time. You stick them in 1985, they would be historic (shoot, last years Bills defense would be historic if you stuck them in 1985). Flip it, and stick the 85 Bears in the league today and they’d get run off the field. 
 

You know what, I’ve been getting such strong reactions to my posts the last two days, I’m just going to go all in!
 

The 1985 Bears and the 1986 Giants defenses are mediocre by today’s standards.

 

If you want to make the argument that athletes in the 50s, 60s and 70s would get run off the field today, perhaps an argument can be made for that. But at some point that argument doesnt hold water anymore. Athletes of the 90s would easily hold their own in today’s NFL athletically. Schemes are a whole different story. Like i said in my previous post, even if you only went back to 2000 and started there and only counted the top 2-3 defenses each yr, it would be hard for either of these defenses to make the cut. 

[Bermuda Triangle]

17 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

You didn’t look at the injury report did you?

I did notice that Watt missed part of the game, and that Bush and Haden were inactive.

 

The Raiders were also missing their starting RB and LG.

 

Pittsburgh's D didn't look very impressive in the playoffs last year, either. 

[Meatloaf63]

On 9/21/2021 at 6:11 AM, Bermuda Triangle said:

I did notice that Watt missed part of the game, and that Bush and Haden were inactive.

 

The Raiders were also missing their starting RB and LG.

 

Pittsburgh's D didn't look very impressive in the playoffs last year, either. 

Heyward destroyed us, him and Watt being out was a game changer…

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:14 AM, machine gun kelly said:

Fair enough Karlos, but who’s better?  Josh isn’t having a great start either, but no one is calling for Mitch right now.  I just know if someone is calling for a benching, who is better?  Or do you work with him and see how he can improve.

People were calling for mitch in the game day thread 🤣 it is wild in there 

On 9/21/2021 at 12:36 AM, bobobonators said:

Man, can you sit back for a second and just think about what youre saying. Just break it down and lets walk it through together. You are claiming these two defenses are top 50 all time. Lets not even count all-time bc it’s just silly and i refuse to entertain it. Instead, lets pretend the NFL began in 2000. Thats 20+ yrs of football. Now, lets take the top 3 defenses in the NFL each of those seasons. Those are really damn good defenses to be in the top 3. That over 60 amazing defenses just in 20+yrs of football. Yet somehow after 2 weeks the dolphins are among the top 50 defenses of all time? Dude. 
 

This Steelers defense isnt even the best Steelers defense of all time, let alone top 50 NFL all time.  Its probably not even among the top 3 Steelers defenses of all time. Did you watch the 2008 Steelers obliterate everyone? You ever hear of the Steel Curtain? They werent given that name bc of their offensive prowess. 
 

The Legion of Boom for multiple years. The Broncos that won the SB w Miller. The Bucs that won the SB w the Tampa 2 in the 2000s. The dolphins in the 70s. The Bears in the 80s. The Bears w Urlacher in the 2000s. Heck even the Bills defense that finished top 3 back in the day under Wade Phillips would B word slap this Dolphins defense. Yikes man. Thats just off the top of my head with zero research. 

To be fair it's tough to compare current defenses with old ones because playing defense is basically illegal now lol you get flagged for everything 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 9/21/2021 at 7:11 AM, Bermuda Triangle said:

I did notice that Watt missed part of the game, and that Bush and Haden were inactive.

 

The Raiders were also missing their starting RB and LG.

 

Pittsburgh's D didn't look very impressive in the playoffs last year, either. 

Tough to judge that cuz the Steelers offense melted down so hard in the first half against Cleveland and it completely changed the complexion of the game...steelers backups nearly beat the browns in the regular season 

[nedboy7]

Yup.  Bench the RT.  Trade the QB.  Fire the OC.  MLB sucks.  2nd CB is a joke.  Its insane how this crap team won 13 games last season.  btw which means nothing cause we didnt win the SB.  God I miss those 8-8 years. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:09 PM, JerseyBills said:

He wasn't that bad vs Mia. Josh routinely had plenty of time in the pocket. 

Week 1 , the whole line was awful. 

But if Williams does have a bad year , maybe Doyle can fill in at RT? Or preferably Brown. 

I seen someone say they're grooming him for RT but he's the swing T , so I'm sure he's gotten plenty reps on the right side too

He didn't have much time against Miami either...he bought a lot of time with his legs rolling all over the pocket to the point where he was unsettled in the pocket even in the rare situations where he got time.  Difference between week 1 and week 2 was josh made all the plays in the red zone and we won by 100 🤣 

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

Yup.  Bench the RT.  Trade the QB.  Fire the OC.  MLB sucks.  2nd CB is a joke.  Its insane how this crap team won 13 games last season.  btw which means nothing cause we didnt win the SB.  God I miss those 8-8 years. 

Lol yea I think we get in the habit of comparing our team to an ideal perfect team...every team is going to have holes even the great ones and especially in a cap reduced year 

[MJS]

On 9/20/2021 at 5:11 AM, Not at the table Karlos said:

Means nothing this year. 

Actually it does because he is the starter and received a contract extension, meaning nobody was brought in who is better than him.

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Yup.  Bench the RT.  Trade the QB.  Fire the OC.  MLB sucks.  2nd CB is a joke.  Its insane how this crap team won 13 games last season.  btw which means nothing cause we didnt win the SB.  God I miss those 8-8 years. 

There were years we just hoped and prayed that ANY starter on the team would step up and be at least average, and when they were we got so excited.

 

All those years with Fred Jackson being the only average starter on our team, pretty much. He's a Buffalo legend because he didn't suck.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, nedboy7 said:

Yup.  Bench the RT.  Trade the QB.  Fire the OC.  MLB sucks.  2nd CB is a joke.  Its insane how this crap team won 13 games last season.  btw which means nothing cause we didnt win the SB.  God I miss those 8-8 years. 

 

Should we all be DONE with this team? I always like it when that happens! 

 

(I kid, as I assume you were.) 

 

 

.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Augie

[Buffalo716]

20 minutes ago, MJS said:

Actually it does because he is the starter and received a contract extension, meaning nobody was brought in who is better than him.

There were years we just hoped and prayed that ANY starter on the team would step up and be at least average, and when they were we got so excited.

 

All those years with Fred Jackson being the only average starter on our team, pretty much. He's a Buffalo legend because he didn't suck.

Jackson was absolutely above average

 

In 2011, who's on an MVP Pace before he broke his leg week 10

 

He had 900 yd rushing going into week 10... Another 400 yards receiving

 

Leading the NFL In rushing yards and all purpose yards before he snapped his leg in half..

 

he was on Pace for well over 2,000 total yards and an MVP type season 

 

He was the best player here for a long time.. and beat out multiple first round running backs and never relinquished his job

[hemma]

I can see them easing Brown in the game for a total of up to 10 snaps.

That’s what they did with Ike for a couple of games last year.

 

Get ahead of any potential problem.  If he can’t handle it, best to know now.

Edited September 23, 2021 by hemma

[Rocky Landing]

4 minutes ago, hemma said:

I can see them easing Brown in the game for a total of up to 10 snaps.

That’s what they did with Ike for a couple of games last year.

 

Get ahead of any potential problem.  If he can’t handle it, best to know now.

He played seven snaps on Offense, and six on ST vs. the Fish.

[hemma]

19 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

He played seven snaps on Offense, and six on ST vs. the Fish.

 

I watched the game a couple of times, but missed him.

 

How’d he do?