Picking up Edmunds Option a Rare Beane Mistake

[Thurman#1]

11 hours ago, Process said:

Are we sure he's that athletic? Why does he play so slow? He takes forever to react and is so slow to get to the ball. He struggles to make one on one tackles and we don't ever see him making plays in coverage.

 

Maybe he looks good with his shirt off or in the gym but he doesn't play like an athletic MLB. 

 

 

Makes total sense. You must be seeing things correctly. After all, if he took forever to react ans was slow to get to the ball and struggled to make one on one tackles, and didn't ever make plays in coverage, that would definitely incline McDermott and Beane, two guys who have put together a consistently very good defense, to play him regularly and to guarantee him $12.7M for next year. 

 

Yeah, clearly you're seeing this correctly.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The difference between Edmunds and a great MLB there is a great one baits Heinecke into throwing that ball into double coverage............it took almost no effort to do what he did and he simply played his minimum coverage responsibility on the play.

 

Just another case of routine, team-defense misinterpreted as a big play.     Milano had the tougher coverage responsibility and he carried it long enough that the pass rush should have closed the deal.    

 

But Poyer won the down with the play that DOES show up in the "score box"........a heads-up,  instinctive play.    That isn't an accident with Poyer, it's who he is.     

Almost no effort?  Geezus this is way past being a terrible take, it’s approaching absurdity.  
 

There was nothing “routine” about a MLB blanketing his coverage like he was a Tre White clone.  Not a lot of LBs can make that play.  And it wasn’t the only time he did it in the game.  It’s just the one someone posted that you now want to disregard.

 

Your post alone shows why this thread is so over blown and grossly exaggerated.  It, along with many others, lack any real football analysis what so ever.  
 

Bunch of stat sheet checkers in here instead of people who actually understand how to analyze his play.  He is NOT the best MLB in football, but he also isn’t in the bottom half of the league either.  He’s arguably top 10 at his position, but all of you who apparently hate him want to use extreme confirmation bias style “analysis” (I loooooosely use this word “analysis” because most of this stuff is nonsense rather than analysis) to try and paint him as negatively as possible.
 

And your post here is poster child for that trying to turn his good plays, even very good plays into things like “routine” and no big deal while you instead over harp on one or two other plays to make it appear worse.

 

This might be the worst thread of the year TBH.  

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Almost no effort?  Geezus this is way past being a terrible take, it’s approaching absurdity.  
 

There was nothing “routine” about a MLB blanketing his coverage like he was a Tre White clone.  Not a lot of LBs can make that play.  And it wasn’t the only time he did it in the game.  It’s just the one someone posted that you now want to disregard.

 

Your post alone shows why this thread is so over blown and grossly exaggerated.  It, along with many others, lack any real football analysis what so ever.  
 

Bunch of stat sheet checkers in here instead of people who actually understand how to analyze his play.  He is NOT the best MLB in football, but he also isn’t in the bottom half of the league either.  He’s arguably top 10 at his position, but all of you who apparently hate him want to use extreme confirmation bias style “analysis” (I loooooosely use this word “analysis” because most of this stuff is nonsense rather than analysis) to try and paint him as negatively as possible.
 

And your post here is poster child for that trying to turn his good plays, even very good plays into things like “routine” and no big deal while you instead over harp on one or two other plays to make it appear worse.

 

This might be the worst thread of the year TBH.  

He did not “blanket” anything.  They were coached yesterday to take away Heineken Light’s first read.  Edmunds on that play is shading to the inside bracket of the first read.  He literally takes like three steps to his left.  Tre White clone?  It’s hardly an example of a game-changing play, it’s just good well-coached team defense.  

Meanwhile Milano recovered another fumble yesterday…

Edited September 27, 2021 by Coach Tuesday

[YattaOkasan]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He did not “blanket” anything.  They were coached yesterday to take away Heineken Light’s first read.  Edmunds on that play is shading to the inside bracket of the first read.  He literally takes like three steps to his left.  Tre White clone?  It’s hardly an example of a game-changing play, it’s just good well-coached team defense.  

Meanwhile Milano recovered another fumble yesterday…

That recovery is after a missed tackle so.... (also its a recovery not a forced fumble)

 

There is so much confirmation bias in this thread its crazy.  I have no idea how the front office will value Edmunds when it comes to a new contract, but talk about a mistake to pick up his 5th, he makes the defense worse, he can't play football, we would much better without him are all just not based in the real world.

Edited September 27, 2021 by YattaOkasan

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He did not “blanket” anything.  They were coached yesterday to take away Heineken Light’s first read.  Edmunds on that play is shading to the inside bracket of the first read.  He literally takes like three steps to his left.  Tre White clone?  It’s hardly an example of a game-changing play, it’s just good well-coached team defense.  

Meanwhile Milano recovered another fumble yesterday…

You realize fumble recoveries are due entirely to chance...

[Coach Tuesday]

3 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

You realize fumble recoveries are due entirely to chance...

 

What?

 

You realize teams practice fumble recoveries right?

 

Whether a ball bounces towards or away from the offense is a random event that, over the course of a season (or several), should even out.

 

But when it bounces toward the defense, WHO recovers it on that defense is not completely random, no.  Some players have a knack for being around the ball, which starts with processing where the ball is on the field - something Milano excels at and Edmunds does not.

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What?

 

You realize teams practice fumble recoveries right?

 

Whether a ball bounces towards or away from the offense is a random event that, over the course of a season (or several), should even out.

 

But when it bounces toward the defense, WHO recovers it on that defense is not completely random, no.  Some players have a knack for being around the ball, which starts with processing where the ball is on the field - something Milano excels at and Edmunds does not.

No, sorry. Fumble recoveries are not predictive and have zero correlation year to year.

 

Recovery of a fumble, despite being the product of hard work, is almost entirely random.

 

Stripping the ball is a skill. Holding onto the ball is a skill. Pouncing on the ball as it is bouncing all over the place is not a skill. There is no correlation whatsoever between the percentage of fumbles recovered by a team in one year and the percentage they recover in the next year. The odds of recovery are based solely on the type of play involved, not the teams or any of their players.

Fans like to insist that specific coaches can teach their teams to recover more fumbles by swarming to the ball. Chicago's Lovie Smith, in particular, is supposed to have this ability. However, in Smith’s first three seasons as head coach of the Bears, their rate of fumble recovery on defense went from a league-best 76 percent in 2004 to a league-worst 33 percent in 2005, then back to 67 percent in 2006.

Fumble recovery is equally erratic on offense. In 2008, the Bears fumbled 12 times on offense and recovered only three of them. In 2009, the Bears fumbled 18 times on offense, but recovered 13 of them.

Fumble recovery is a major reason why the general public overestimates or underestimates certain teams. Fumbles are huge, turning-point plays that dramatically impact wins and losses in the past, while fumble recovery percentage says absolutely nothing about a team's chances of winning games in the future. With this in mind, Football Outsiders stats treat all fumbles as equal, penalizing them based on the likelihood of each type of fumble (run, pass, sack, etc.) being recovered by the defense.

Other plays that qualify as "non-predictive events" include blocked kicks and touchdowns during turnover returns. These plays are not "lucky," per se, but they have no value whatsoever for predicting future performance.

 

[Thurman#1]

10 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

It doesn't even enter people's eyes...

 

This is the thing. The coaches love his coverage skills. 

 

Plenty of times when throws go elsewhere it's simply because it was supposed to go elsewhere. But sometimes it's because the first read was taken away. QBs don't like to throw around

 

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea wtf is so impressive about that play from Edmunds perspective? Any starting NFL MLB should be able to do what he did there. 

Edmunds is more than replaceable with someone on a much cheaper contract when that time comes….. how is that even arguable at this point? You really going to pay that guy $13-15 million per year? No ***** way….. use that money for the interior offensive line or another playmaker offensively.

 

 

It's arguable how? Easily is how. Yeah, you can fill the spot on the field. But now with someone who plays as well.

 

What was impressive there? He got to his spot more quickly than most, at the same time correctly identifying the route. Humphries on a linebacker is a matchup a QB is going to be thrilled to see, and it was his first read. And yet Edmunds just eliminated it. QBs don't like throwing near a guy that tall with arms that long. Heinicke appeared to keep his eyes there for a while, expecting Humphrey to get free. Edmunds didn't let that happen.

 

And by the time he got to the read he threw to, he was surrounded in the pocket and he panicked a bit. That was a very nice play by Edmunds. Theoretically any LB should be able to cover Humphries on that play. In real life, few can and do.

 

And while obviously nobody can guarantee that they will pay him $13 - $15 M per year starting in a year in which they have $90M available under the cap, the fact that they already guaranteed him him $12.7M in a year when they only have $20M available indicates that not only is it possible, but that it's quite likely, barring regression, injury and yadda yadda.

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

What?

 

You realize teams practice fumble recoveries right?

 

Whether a ball bounces towards or away from the offense is a random event that, over the course of a season (or several), should even out.

 

But when it bounces toward the defense, WHO recovers it on that defense is not completely random, no.  Some players have a knack for being around the ball, which starts with processing where the ball is on the field - something Milano excels at and Edmunds does not.

He definitely processed the ball as Thomas ran through his attempted tackle... it was a perfect set-up by Milano 😄

[FilthyBeast]

Maybe it's just me but it seems that all the big plays given up yesterday (specifically during the WTF mini run in the 2nd quarter) that Edmunds seemed to be a liability or missed a tackle.

 

I still will never understand what the coaching staff sees in him but there's really nothing that stands out about his game and even when he has had opportunities to make game changing plays (i.e. INT) it just doesn't happen.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

He did not “blanket” anything.  They were coached yesterday to take away Heineken Light’s first read.  Edmunds on that play is shading to the inside bracket of the first read.  He literally takes like three steps to his left.  Tre White clone?  It’s hardly an example of a game-changing play, it’s just good well-coached team defense.  

Meanwhile Milano recovered another fumble yesterday…

So Edmunds executed his assignment to perfection and you somehow have a problem with this or think it doesn’t matter?  Lol come on, you’re literally just trying to discredit an excellent play by him for the purpose of confirming your negative opinion of him overall.  
 

Menawhile, you want to mention a fumble recovery by Milano which was just luck and chance the ball was fumbled (and fumble was caused by someone else) in Milano’s vicinity.  It literally has nothing to do with how well Milano played or didn’t play.  Milano played great yesterday, so not taking anything away from him, just pointing out its silly to boost up a luck play while discrediting Edmunds perfectly executing his responsibility on another.

 

Your post, like the other I mentioned, is again more evidence aid the attempts in this thread of confirmation bias to discredit anything Edmunds does well as “routine” and no big deal while over exaggerating other plays he didn’t do what you expected.

[Rochesterfan]

1 hour ago, FilthyBeast said:

Maybe it's just me but it seems that all the big plays given up yesterday (specifically during the WTF mini run in the 2nd quarter) that Edmunds seemed to be a liability or missed a tackle.

 

I still will never understand what the coaching staff sees in him but there's really nothing that stands out about his game and even when he has had opportunities to make game changing plays (i.e. INT) it just doesn't happen.

 

Can you explain how the 73 yard TD is on Edmunds?  
 

It looks like the slot CB blitzed - that left him out of the way on a perfect play call.  That was most likely his guy on that play.

 

Edmunds is covering and takes an angle to cut him off 15 yards down field.  He and Wallace (I believe - it could also be Hyde or Poyer as I can see the number from the broadcast image) force him back to the inside for pursuit, but Star can’t get there.  Milano is the pursuit LB and has the angle and needs to make the play and he fails.  He can’t quite get there.

 

Edmunds has a blocker stands him up as he falls back and makes sure Gibson has to move back to the middle - He then turns to pursue and gets caught up in the Safety and WR blocking.  Milano and Tre White pursue all the way, but neither can get there.

 

It looks like the perfect call against the defense we dialed up.  There was no one out there because the Bills appear to have a rotation where the nickel CB blitzed, the other CB played a short outside zone and Edmunds was dropping into a deeper third.  It was not his guy - although he could of played it better - He and Wallace had to maintain outside leverage to allow the pursuit to come and they did that.  The pursuit never made it and they couldn’t fight through the traffic to get him.

 

Without knowing the entire call - that was on the entire defense and was a result of a perfect play at a perfect time.

 

I really think you are just looking to blame him which is why you do not understand what the coaching staff sees.  You have the solution - Edmunds is the problem and now you are making things fit that narrative.  The coaching staff is not looking at blame and starting with premise that Edmunds is the problem.  Therefore they are looking at how to address the real issues - which is how did we get caught in that play call at that moment.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

There was nothing “routine” about a MLB blanketing his coverage like he was a Tre White clone.  Not a lot of LBs can make that play.  

 

The above ^^ is what YOU SAID.

 

48 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

So Edmunds executed his assignment to perfection and you somehow have a problem with this or think it doesn’t matter?  

 

Now you're moving the goalpost.

 

Why don't you just admit you didn't watch the clip being discussed?  Because if you had you would never have called it an example of "a MLB blanketing his coverage like he was a Tre White clone."  HE LITERALLY TAKES TWO STEPS TO HIS LEFT TO DISRUPT A PASSING LANE.

 

Please.  There are reasonable bases to defend Edmunds' play, and then there's hyperbole and outright mythology.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Linebacker notes from game by series. 

 

- first series- 

49 fought through pick drawing flag on run play, resulting in opi call, made tackle on third down to force punt. 
 

-second-

49 Looked do cover his assignments nothing standout either way. Of note .. 58 recovers fumble after chasing strip by by trey/Poyer because Thomas broke Milano’s tackle. (This seems to be an example of people seeing what they want to around linebacker play) 

 

-Third-
49 Took away first read Poyer pick after bad QBs throw

 

-fourth-

49 sheds and in on  tackle for 2 yds. 58 blocked off of play. 
 

Washington screen, 58 doesn’t read screen and out of play completely, 49 drops in coverage then blocked off by puling lineman who pancakes him into other bill.  Also Hyde misses tackle and white takes poor angle …  whole defense is outrun. 
 

-fifth- 

reverse,. 58 blocked off of play by tight end, pulling lineman on 49 he sheds and it on on tackle downfield. 
 

sweep right…  58 blocked off and ridden oob 49 fights through block and second to carrier. Note: 50 blew this up by forcing his blocker and the edge backwards and 21 darted in for a big TFL. 
 

throw to 5 49 bites on eyes to flat, open seam for pass. 
 

qb td. Both LB were in zone outside the opposite hash. By scheme, hard to say who should have been accountable for the scramble.. can’t imagine it was either lb. 

 

-sixth- 

first down, 49 fake blitz and drop middle zone, 58 coverage left flat. Coverage holds up scramble. 
 

58 fights block and tackle run right. 49 drops appears to be in man. 
 

Throw middle 49 is there for stop 58 comes in after stop. Punt.

 

-seventh-

49 blocked by pulling ol, 58 unblocked, in pursuit makes tackle. 

49 drops tips ball in coverage picked off. Got flagged for 1 of three defensive penalties on this play. Play overturned 

 

Both lb in man on 49 RB with quick dig, there with 23 for stop. 
 

both lbs in coverage on second down, all covered up 

 

both lbs drop 49 take seam, 58 pbu on slot…. Punt

 

second half

 

-first series-

 

Run left 58s side can’t of TE block, 49 back side pursuit bounce by pulling ol, play called back for holding on DE. 
 

run right, 49 sheds ol block, breaks down and run forces back inside, 58 backside, unblocked pursues near finish of play. 
 

49 covers 2 in zone 58 be in flat, qb scrambles but illegal forward pass 

 

both drop in zone make right window, 23 pick it off. 
 

-second series- 

looks like good fit on run both read run and come up. 58 tackles in his gap. 
 

qb scramble to 58 side, both in zone 

 

next play both in zone drops. Wr drops ball. 

-third- 

Both read run in the scrum not much gain

 

both  zone… wr drop 

 

both zone, both in on tackle after sticks 

 

QB scramble 49 forces slide 

 

49 rushes and blocked pass 

 

QBs scrambles 58 stops right at sticks 

 

4th1 QBs stopped in sneak, 58 fires through 

 

-fourth- 

run to 49 side ol block shed tackle for 8 yard gain

 

58 blocked completely out of play 49 blocked off, sheds, then disrupts but missed tackle. 
 

botched snap 

 

both drop, 58 flattens zone despite no flat player, QBs throw over his head. 49 in on tackle 

 

58 drops 49 rushes, and DT tops check down. 21 coverage penalty 

 

Both drop 49 washes through bodies, misses arm tackle after 27 missed arm tackle and before 21 misses arm tackle 

 

Both drop qb rolls out 58 closes and qb hits may have forces incomplete throw. 
 

both in coverage neither effect run stop 

 

both drop, qb roll to 49 side big safety hit to know about oob. 
 

both in coverage, 23 gets mossed 

 

 

…..

 

 

not sure I caught all of it, to me it looks like both linebackers do the same job and have responsibilities on their side of the field. Tremaine is a little faster rangy long and can thump a little more and get off blocks a little better. Milano is more instinctive and makes more splash plays.

 

they both compliment each other well in the middle of the defense. 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

The above ^^ is what YOU SAID.

 

 

Now you're moving the goalpost.

 

Why don't you just admit you didn't watch the clip being discussed?  Because if you had you would never have called it an example of "a MLB blanketing his coverage like he was a Tre White clone."  HE LITERALLY TAKES TWO STEPS TO HIS LEFT TO DISRUPT A PASSING LANE.

 

Please.  There are reasonable bases to defend Edmunds' play, and then there's hyperbole and outright mythology.  

You clearly missed the sarcasm in using the same extremities that I was countering.  
 

And he executed that play perfectly, and NOT all LBs do that, Beasley makes LBs look silly on the same route regularly.  And he did this on more than just this play.  
 

Sorry, you’re still downplaying good plays for the purpose of exaggerating bad plays to confirm your opinion of him.

 

There isn’t a GM in football who wouldn’t have picked up Edmunds option just like Beane did.  
 

This is IMHO the worst thread of the year full of over exaggerated hot takes and non sense.  I don’t know if I’ve ever seen a thread with more blatant confirmation bias attempts as this one.  

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

I don’t think so. maybe you know better than me but I’ll I see is a linebacker who is flying all over the field making plays.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Marvlevydraftdaygenius

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

That recovery is after a missed tackle so.... (also its a recovery not a forced fumble)

 

There is so much confirmation bias in this thread its crazy.  I have no idea how the front office will value Edmunds when it comes to a new contract, but talk about a mistake to pick up his 5th, he makes the defense worse, he can't play football, we would much better without him are all just not based in the real world.

Agreed 💯.  
 

But he kinda stinks sometimes.  Right?  🤪

[Billy Zabka]

Another "meh" game from Edmunds. Continues to miss tackles and not get off blocks.  He looks below  average at best out there to me and his pff numbers back up what I see.

[Fan in Chicago]

4 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

That recovery is after a missed tackle so.... (also its a recovery not a forced fumble)

 

There is so much confirmation bias in this thread its crazy.  I have no idea how the front office will value Edmunds when it comes to a new contract, but talk about a mistake to pick up his 5th, he makes the defense worse, he can't play football, we would much better without him are all just not based in the real world.

An opinion (mine as well) that Beane should not have picked up his 5th year option is not the same as the others on your list. He is an acceptable player but we can do better. McBeane should have waited to see his performance this season before making decisions about his future with the team. If he left in FA next offseason, so be it. Draft or look for options in FA to get, at worst, similar performance. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Fan in Chicago

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, Billy Zabka said:

Another "meh" game from Edmunds. Continues to miss tackles and not get off blocks.  He looks below  average at best out there to me and his pff numbers back up what I see.

I look at Tremaine and I see a linebacker specimen made in heaven for McD's D. A guy that big and tall, with that wing span, that fast, that agile etc...To me his physical ability allows him to play at a decent level and sometimes even well. Overall though to me he has underperformed expectations given his rare athleticism and going mid-first round. Sure he gets lots of tackles but not only does that come with the turf but he doesn't strike me as an especially sure tackler either. He's ok but I don't see him as great in coverage. And for a guy who should be a terror when blitzing I don't recall much in the way of production. 

Other posters see it quite differently. I'll be interested to see what the Bills do re an extension.