Josh Allen is looking a lot more like the 2019 version

[Nextmanup]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

That would be fine if someone said that, but its not that and its every excuse that I've heard for years with {Insert QB}.

 

First it was no weapons (Check) that's done. thats been fixed. 

 

Now its:

No preseason

O line issues

OCs fault

New WRs

 

 

Allen just got the largest guaranteed contract in the history of the sport, like it or not its his show he needs to perform above it all.

He has failed to do that through 2 games this year.

 

He needs to be better, end of story. 

 

The Bills beat very few teams outside of Miami/Jets/Jags without the defense playing at an elite level, if that's the output they are going to have

 

 

Everyone's favorite radio announcer Mike Schopp said it best yesterday in the post-game radio show.

 

He suggested that time may prove Josh Allen to not be a Top 3 MVP candidate QB at all...but rather, like many of the QBs on many teams, one of the "better" QBs who is not elite, but good enough to win with.

 

His point being that if we are winning with him, no harm no foul, even if he is not MVP Josh.  

 

As time goes on, I think his MVP top 2 or 3 QB in the league performance will prove to be a statistical aberration.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

 

The way Josh has looked his last 5 games or so is much more the "real" Josh Allen than MVP Josh ever was.

 

He'll have another good test against Washington.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

20 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

No, it wouldn’t. Did you think Josh was an elite QB in 2019? If we win the SB with that kind of QB play then it’s because the defense carried us there.

 

At times in 2019 Allen's play was elite.

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Everyone's favorite radio announcer Mike Schopp said it best yesterday in the post-game radio show.

 

He suggested that time may prove Josh Allen to not be a Top 3 MVP candidate QB at all...but rather, like many of the QBs on many teams, one of the "better" QBs who is not elite, but good enough to win with.

 

His point being that if we are winning with him, no harm no foul, even if he is not MVP Josh.  

 

As time goes on, I think his MVP top 2 or 3 QB in the league performance will prove to be a statistical aberration.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

 

The way Josh has looked his last 5 games or so is much more the "real" Josh Allen than MVP Josh ever was.

 

He'll have another good test against Washington.  

are you sure you're just not saying this because you spent years telling us josh would be bad, and were proven completely wrong?  

[Beast]

I don't understand why anyone would get upset at pointing out Allen's play has not been good.

 

We all know he's capable of much more. He needs to figure it out with a big assist from Daboll and Dorsey.

[dpberr]

I think it's rust and the offense getting re-acclimated to playing in a stadium with fans. It's getting there.  I think the well-oiled machine we saw late last year will arrive.  

 

You know who I'm happy hasn't fallen back into bad habits?  The coaching staff.  I was happy the score yesterday was 35-0 and not 28-17 because the team took the pedal off the gas.   

[nucci]

1 hour ago, Billever76 said:

The starting offense had little time together in the preseason amd they will get better as the season wears on....im concerned about our oline in pass protection the most.....they have been below average and if not for how mobile allen is they would be even worse looking

they had the same amount of time as every other team

2 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think it's rust and the offense getting re-acclimated to playing in a stadium with fans. It's getting there.  I think the well-oiled machine we saw late last year will arrive.  

 

You know who I'm happy hasn't fallen back into bad habits?  The coaching staff.  I was happy the score yesterday was 35-0 and not 28-17 because the team took the pedal off the gas.   

rust from what? It was only one year without fans and there were fans late in the season and playoffs. Come on!

[SirAndrew]

I see that some people are resistant to the idea that Allen has played subpar the first two games. I’m not sure why it’s such a bad thing to admit. I actually hope our failures have more to do with us than the opponent. It’s fair to point out the quality of opposing defenses, but if multiple teams present a “matchup” problem for your elite QB, you’re going to struggle reaching the ultimate goal. Allen should have the ability fix flaws in his game, fixing matchup problems is far more complicated. I find it more positive to admit Allen’s struggles, than to blame outside sources. If a team like the Steelers is as great as TBD claims, how do you overcome them in the playoffs ? I’d like to think Allen has the ability to drop 300 yards on anyone, as elite QB’s do. It’s possible he’s just struggled and will get it together. I like that thought better than good defenses dominating him. 

Edited September 20, 2021 by SirAndrew

[FilthyBeast]

Something just doesn't look right in Allen's overall demeanor right now.

 

Not sure if it's the pressure of living up to his contract and/or carry this team to a championship but he really has that 'deer in headlights' look for the most part when you watch him after bad plays and on the sidelines.

 

These next two games (against far inferior opponents/defenses IMO) are going to create a sample size that will probably dictate the trajectory of the rest of the season for Allen and the offense.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

21 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think it's rust and the offense getting re-acclimated to playing in a stadium with fans. It's getting there.  I think the well-oiled machine we saw late last year will arrive.  

 

You know who I'm happy hasn't fallen back into bad habits?  The coaching staff.  I was happy the score yesterday was 35-0 and not 28-17 because the team took the pedal off the gas.   

Why aren't other top-performing QBs dealing with these issues?

 

[HeHateMe]

Rookie Josh in the first half, 2019 Josh in the 2nd.. Not sure what is going on with him but it looks like a pretty substantial regression already..  Can't blame anybody but him when guys are open, has time, and just throws a terrible ball.  That's only on him.

[RyanC883]

19 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

It doesn’t matter how much he got paid. He’s here, he will be on this team for many years to come. He will figure it out eventually. 

 

he won't be on the team for "years to come" if he regresses to Carson Wentz.  But people act like he's a 3 time winning SB QB and should be immune from criticism.  He's missed a number of TD passes that other QB's make this year.  Last year, he made a number of TD passes that almost no one makes.  That said, I think he gets it back together.  I'm not sure why his throwing velocity and placement are all over this year, but I think it gets fixed.  Dorsey is good.  Perhaps Josh can call Palmar mid-season if this continues.  

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The throw that really bothered me was the pass to McKenzie along the sidelines late 3rd quarter…. It was late and he floated it and should have been an easy interception….. just an awful throw. Josh doesn’t make that throw last year. 

Was howard gonna be able to land in bounds with that ball?  I really didnt think he had a chance at being in bounds which is why he didnt catch it really.

 

Overall, Josh has played worse than he did on average last year; however, theres not enough sample size here to call it a regression.  I count 5 games with similar rating to his two this year.  Some those were even... back to back.

 

I agree that teams are playing with super light boxes and we need to punish them for that (particularly in the second half of closer games, thinking of the Pitt game).  I got a lot of faith they will get things turned around. 

[Bangarang]

55 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

At times in 2019 Allen's play was elite.

We’re taking about his entire season, not just how he looked at times.

 

Trubisky looked elite at times with the Bears as well. Same goes for a lot of players at various positions. 
 

It’s a simple question really and I think playing these word games is just a way to deflect from the obvious answer which is no, he wasn’t elite in 2019. 

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

So you’re saying Josh was an elite QB in 2019? 

Feels like you're looking for style points here.  Who cares if Josh has a 75QBR and we win the super bowl?  In my opinion, every penny will have been well spent.  

[RyanC883]

44 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I see that some people are resistant to the idea that Allen has played subpar the first two games. I’m not sure why it’s such a bad thing to admit. I actually hope our failures have more to do with us than the opponent. It’s fair to point out the quality of opposing defenses, but if multiple teams present a “matchup” problem for your elite QB, you’re going to struggle reaching the ultimate goal. Allen should have the ability fix flaws in his game, fixing matchup problems is far more complicated. I find it more positive to admit Allen’s struggles, than to blame outside sources. If a team like the Steelers is as great as TBD claims, how do you overcome them in the playoffs ? I’d like to think Allen has the ability to drop 300 yards on anyone, as elite QB’s do. It’s possible he’s just struggled and will get it together. I like that thought better than good defenses dominating him. 

 

exactly, and well-said.  Elite QB's dominate or can handle elite D's.  Average QB's have "matchup" problems.  

 

From what I've seen, it's more a Josh problem with velocity and accuracy.  That can and hopefully will be fixed.  

1 hour ago, Motor26 said:

 

What if he has numbers similar to 2019 but the team wins the Super Bowl? Would that be considered elite play?

 

nope, not if the SB is because of an elite D and/or running game.  

 

no one considers Trent Dilfer an elite QB for making a SB.  

[starrymessenger]

Josh is far from his best right now as some of the problems we saw earlier resurface. Its a combination of mediocre o-line play in pass pro, suspect play calling, lousy footwork and poor QB decisions in favouring lower percentage, though bigger payoff, options when going through progressions (as well as maybe a little overconfidence). Insofar as his play is concerned, these are fixable problems in Allen's case because he has already shown that he can correct them (because he is smart and has all the physical ability you could possibly want). We will see whether and how the team deals with the o-line, game planning including in-game adjustments  and play-calling.  

Edited September 20, 2021 by starrymessenger

[Logic]

Not sure if this was already posted in this thread or not, but...

I saw it pointed out on Twitter today that Josh Allen had just two games in all of 2020 where he completed less than 60% of his passes. He already has two such games in two outings this season.

Just another log for the "it's more than just facing good defenses or o-line problems" fire. 

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, Tenhigh said:

Feels like you're looking for style points here.  Who cares if Josh has a 75QBR and we win the super bowl?  In my opinion, every penny will have been well spent.  

This isn’t about style points. Like, at all. It’s about actually being good. I don’t need Josh to throw for 5,000 yards and 40 TDs. 

 

The point, which I thought I’ve been clear about, is that this team isn’t going to be competing for a SB if Allen and the offense are just a repeat of their 2019 season. 

 

[nbbillsfan]

This has been a rough start for Allen, Daboll and perhaps the WR's. I have not noticed nearly the amount of separation we consistently saw last year (either as a function of play design and/or receiver's winning their routes). However, Allen has missed on the few open shots he has had. All parties need to step it up Big time....

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I guess I'm an old fart who has seen everything in my life as a Bills fan.  And it's not concerning when I've only seen it for 2 games.  And even in these two games Allen has shown flashes of his 2020 self.  Were you concerned during that run last year where the Bills only scored 16, 17 & 18 points and Allen looked pretty average at best?  And this coming right after 4 games in which Allen couldn't be stopped.

 

Go back and look at the Bills awesome run from 1988 - 1993.  There are games where Kelly, Thomas & Reed could barely move the football.  We all remember the point and yardage machine that was the K-Gun when it was firing on 8 cylinders but in reality they had 5 to 6 offensive clunkers a season during that run.  It comes with the game.

 

 

 

 

 

Good fair points. What makes me concerned is the small sample size of the elite Allen. It not like watching Rodgers, Brady, Mahomes, Brees, Wilson, etc...a bad game or 2 isn't as alarming because they have been elite franchise qbs for extended periods of time. While Allen has what a 10 game sample size? We've seen qbs like Cam, Kap, RG3, Cousins, Fitz, Goeff, Wentz,  etc...have short term success similar to Allen. Fair points no? Fast forward to this season and Allen isn't playing anywhere near last year's level. I don't see the dynamic, confident, and accurate passer of last year. I see an Allen whose lost confidence, looks jittery, locking into his receivers, poor footwork, and most concerning is inaccurate. Positive note is its only a 2 game sample as you point out. So time will tell if Allen and the offense progresses or not. I think it's completely valid to be critical of Allen. His play has earned that.