Josh Allen is looking a lot more like the 2019 version

[longtimebillsfan]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

True, it cuts both ways. Generally speaking, it has negative connotations. The term "franchise QB" is term used for the elite Qbs. No doubt Allen earned that title last year. However, it was a very small sample size. Imho, he isn't earning that title in this early season. Time will tell what label he will receive. 

Keep in mind the offense only played about 2 quarters the entire preseason.   It has taken a couple games to find their rhythm.

 

I believe Josh and the offense will get on track and keep improving.

[newcam2012]

26 minutes ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Keep in mind the offense only played about 2 quarters the entire preseason.   It has taken a couple games to find their rhythm.

 

I believe Josh and the offense will get on track and keep improving.

Disagree on it takes a couple games to find your rhythm. The offense is in tact from last year. Its not a new system or lots of new players. I can't stress how I feel like this is a big excuse being made for the Bills offenaive woes. 

 

My take is Allen os regressing. He is thinking too much, lost some confidence, locking into his receivers thus poor vision, improper footwork such as throwing off his back foot which causes inaccurate passes. Couple that with an Oline that has been porous and a run game that is below average. A bills offensive playbook that's no secret to opponents. Today we saw some glimmer of hope with the run game. Daboll seemed to be a little less predictable. Allen still didn't look good. 

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Last 4 games:  98 of 169, 58%, 942 Yards, 6 TD's to 2 INT's, 80.53 Rating

 

2021: 47 of 84, 56%, 449 Yards, 3 TD's to 1 INT, 77.92 Rating

 

2020 Regular Season: 396 of 572, 69.2%, 4544 Yards, 37 TD's to 10 INT's, 107.1 Rating

 

2019 Regular Season: 271 of 461, 58.8%, 3089 Yards, 20 TD's to 9 INT's, 85.31 Rating

 

 

So what we have seen this season and over the last 4 games is at or below the level of play we have seen in 2019. Which looks right from what I observed, in fact, I would say this team looks very much like the 2019 team. Allen capable of making plays, excellent defense. Playoff team, but not consistent enough to be more.  

 

The question becomes what's going on with Josh? To me Josh looks confused and indecisive which leads to a breakdown of his mechanics and poor timing in our passing game. He doesn't know where he wants to go with the ball and that is concerning. Why isn't he reading defenses as easily as he did in 2020?

 

It seems it is not at all uncommon for QB's that have break out years to regress the next year once teams focus on taking away what they like to do with consistency. It was certainly a lot easier to communicate and audible last season. Whatever it is I don't think the answers are easy or simple. We will see soon enough.     

 

 

You don't think the Baltimore, Kansas City, Pittsburgh and Miami defenses had anything to do with this?

 

Those were last year's #2, #3, #6 and #11 defenses. This year's opponents were #3 and #6. That's a very high level pair we've faced so far this year.

 

IMO the answers are simple, but not easy, to steal from Marv. Stop killing yourself with penalties. Figure out how to adapt to what they're doing to us. Play with discipline and attention to detail.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Process said:

Before the Steelers game, all the talk on Steelers forums was how bad their secondary is and how Allen is going to tear them apart. They all thought we would destroy them. 

 

But we lose and Allen plays like crap and Bills fans want to say it's because the Steelers have the best defense in the league. 

 

Their defense is not one of the best in the league. The Steelers are not a good team. Derek Carr just went for 400 and a win against them in Pittsburgh. 

 

Time to face reality... Allen has been bad and needs to get it together quick. 

 

 

Their defense may well still be one of the best in the league. Derek Carr and the Raiders have come out on fire this year, and as stated above, they had a few guys missing against Vegas. And they destroyed our OL in that game. Allen had no time. This week he had some time but the Fins secondary played really well. 

 

Allen has been mediocre, far from very bad. It's just that last year's Allen was so very good. And best guess this early is that those were two good defenses we played.

 

Bottom line is that we'll have to see if he gets his rhythm or not. Too early to say very much.

[AuntieEm]

6 hours ago, Bangarang said:

As a long time fan you’d probably have it figured out by now that if you can’t reliably throw the ball and put up points, you aren’t likely to have any kind of sustained success. 
 

Is it really a coincidence that once we finally had a prolific passing offense we put up a bunch of points, win 13 games and make it to the AFC Championship game.

 

Giving vague and cliche slogans like “it’s a team game” is all well and good if but there are obviously problems with the offense that don’t get us where we want to go. Do you think Josh is going to watch the film from today and not seriously critique how poorly he played at times? 

 

    As a long time fan I know that without reliably putting up points in whatever manner is best for your team any given Sunday will not lead to sustained success.  Yes the rule changes over the the years do favor the pass but it doesn't preclude other ways of success just the degree of effort and ability thats required to sustain that success.  Yes its improbable we see many examples of a SB winner in today's pass friendly thats gonna do it with a elite defense but a substandard offense, yet 2000 ravens did just that with an offense that did not score even a touchdown in 5 straight games.

    

      Will the Bills do that highly improbable because I can't see these players going 5 games without a offensive td.  So we don't even need our defense to be as elite as that 2000 Ravens squad.  They are capable of being that elite potential is there just hard to execute at that elite level for that length of time even with alot of talent.  

 

     Complementary teams find its easiest to succeed.   Everyone says KC is the team to beat in AFC no if and or buts, yet they couldn't overcome their  defenses lack of execution.  If Allen is deemed to be regressing from the level he achieved in 2020 then  I guess Patrick Mahomes has regressed more since he failed to  maintain an even loftier spot than Josh Allen has ascended to.  In fact now that Sam Darnolds with a new team and he's 2-0 maybe we didn't get the best qb in the 2018 draft (I hope you know that's heavily dosed with sarcasm).

 

      Theres nothing vague whatsoever in the cliche slogan 'it's a team game'. This is absolutely indisputably a fact.  Even the great Tom Brady knows thats true - Its why he got tired of playing at a team friendly rate but did not receive an appropriate influx of talent that justified his reduced salary.  Much better to be surrounded with defensive talent making your job easier and getting paid appropriately while still winning SBs.  Make a convincing argument on that I don't think you can unless you show me a team that only fields  only an offense or only a defense  and I'll concede that  it would be impossible to field a sb champ on a team that's made up of Special Teams because thats more of a cliche  'ST is 1/3 of the game'  it can swing momentum certainly but it only helps drive whichever side of the ball a one dimensional team is dominant.  But even ST can dominate in individual games.  NYJ  all field goal game win was only bass putting up points  but we still needed both the offense and defense or do you dispute that  in today's pass is the only thing that wins in today's game mentality that you adhere to? But that game just happened last  year in the midst of Josh's breakout year as a elite passed.  18-10 final score.  Josh and the Bills offense could not find the end zone  once despite Josh passing for over 300 yds.  Granted to Jets were a hapless dumpster fire under Adam game so our defensive shutout in 2nd half of that game wasn't that impressive to those of us that view game as a terrible coach that lived off a rep as Peyton Mannings OC in Denver as if Peyton needed an OC after practically being the offense in Indy when they were sustaining success. Yet he failed to win a SB until he had a complementary defense.   And he won a second SB with Denver largely due to a good defense his arm was shot the last year by time the playoffs came round.

   

   And yes I do consider Peyton to be a better QB vs Brady straight up.  Brady just had more complimentary  defenses to garner his lopsided number of championships, Brady developed more as he got deeper in his career but then he started with a lower football iq imho.  Manning was groomed by his father Archie from a young age so he had a leg up on Brady in that regard.

 

    Can u argue Brady had less defensive help through his patriots years than Manning did during his indy years?  I don't know  if anyone could as some of the patriot success is due to belichek and his defensive coaching abilities.  He was the architect of the defense that was able to stop the first Bills SB team which most bills fans feel was there best matchup talentwise in their 4 trips.

 

 

   

  

Edited September 20, 2021 by AuntieEm
Corrections

[newcam2012]

51 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Their defense may well still be one of the best in the league. Derek Carr and the Raiders have come out on fire this year, and as stated above, they had a few guys missing against Vegas. And they destroyed our OL in that game. Allen had no time. This week he had some time but the Fins secondary played really well. 

 

Allen has been mediocre, far from very bad. It's just that last year's Allen was so very good. And best guess this early is that those were two good defenses we played.

 

Bottom line is that we'll have to see if he gets his rhythm or not. Too early to say very much.

Curious to get your take on the Wash defense? Are they elite or top 10? D. Jones just shredded them if they helps you answer the question. Just trying to see if Allen is going to get another "pass" if he doesn't play well? At some point, it's Shi* or get off the pot...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Not sure what game you watched. Allen played poorly. He missed several throws, was very inaccurate, was fortunate not to have several picks, stared down receivers, threw off his back foot, etc. He was 17-33 for 179 yards. 2 tds and 1 not. Maybe I'm lost...

 

I guess we will see when the all-22 comes out. But I am pretty sure I am right and you are only focusing on the misses. He made some poor throws, for sure. But I think we will see that he made some great ones and that the receivers were pretty much blanketed in tight man coverage all game. 
 

Overall, my sense is that it’s some rust by him (and the other offensive skill players) and the offensive coaches still trying to get into a groove. 

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I guess we will see when the all-22 comes out. But I am pretty sure I am right and you are only focusing on the misses. He made some poor throws, for sure. But I think we will see that he made some great ones and that the receivers were pretty much blanketed in tight man coverage all game. 
 

Overall, my sense is that it’s some rust by him (and the other offensive skill players) and the offensive coaches still trying to get into a groove. 

The Washington game should be a perfect game to knock off the "rust." Right?

[Tenhigh]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Disagree on it takes a couple games to find your rhythm. The offense is in tact from last year. Its not a new system or lots of new players. I can't stress how I feel like this is a big excuse being made for the Bills offenaive woes. 

 

My take is Allen os regressing. He is thinking too much, lost some confidence, locking into his receivers thus poor vision, improper footwork such as throwing off his back foot which causes inaccurate passes. Couple that with an Oline that has been porous and a run game that is below average. A bills offensive playbook that's no secret to opponents. Today we saw some glimmer of hope with the run game. Daboll seemed to be a little less predictable. Allen still didn't look good. 

Maybe you should find a hobby that's less stressful. 

[nucci]

4 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I guess we will see when the all-22 comes out. But I am pretty sure I am right and you are only focusing on the misses. He made some poor throws, for sure. But I think we will see that he made some great ones and that the receivers were pretty much blanketed in tight man coverage all game. 
 

Overall, my sense is that it’s some rust by him (and the other offensive skill players) and the offensive coaches still trying to get into a groove. 

good points but I don't understand why he would be rusty? Training camp, preseason, practice and 2 games so far. He's been playing football almost everyday for months now.

[Solomon Grundy]

Seems to me that Josh is playing tentatively. Almost like the pressure of his contract is influencing his play. The offensive line isn’t helping either. Let Diggs give him a “John Henderson slap” and tell him to unleash the Kraken. 

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, Tenhigh said:

Maybe you should find a hobby that's less stressful. 

Maybe you should try to intellectually add something to the conversation instead of slinging personal attacks. All good here...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Just now, nucci said:

good points but I don't understand why he would be rusty? Training camp, preseason, practice and 2 games so far. He's been playing football almost everyday for months now.

My only thought on this is that it’s different when live bullets are flying. Also, it doesn’t seem Like he is in sync yet with E. Sanders. 

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, nucci said:

good points but I don't understand why he would be rusty? Training camp, preseason, practice and 2 games so far. He's been playing football almost everyday for months now.

The rust argument is pretty weak and that'ss being kind. The issues.are the Oline, run game, play calling, and Allen's mechanics and confidence. Not saying things can't turn around for the positive. Rust has nothing to do with it. A valid argument as stated here is the Bills faced 2 good defenses. 

[Tenhigh]

Just now, newcam2012 said:

Maybe you should try to intellectually add something to the conversation instead of slinging personal attacks. All good here...

Ad soon as you post something intellectual I'll be sure to respond.  Its pretty simple while Allen and the rest of the O isn't quite yet in mid-season form, the Chicken Littles are out in force after a 35-0 win over a division rival.  You are trolling amigo, plain and simple.

[newcam2012]

1 minute ago, Tenhigh said:

Ad soon as you post something intellectual I'll be sure to respond.  Its pretty simple while Allen and the rest of the O isn't quite yet in mid-season form, the Chicken Littles are out in force after a 35-0 win over a division rival.  You are trolling amigo, plain and simple.

No I'm not. Look at my post after the game. I gave my props to the Bills for the win, praised several players, likef the running game, and the play calling. The troll label always rears its ugly head when people don't like the valid criticism of the Bills players who are under performing. Your right on point and I expected the shots fired. 

12 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Seems to me that Josh is playing tentatively. Almost like the pressure of his contract is influencing his play. The offensive line isn’t helping either. Let Diggs give him a “John Henderson slap” and tell him to unleash the Kraken. 

I agree with the tentative comment. Not sure I can agree with the pressure of the contract angle though.

[teef]

i think it's obvious to everyone that josh hasn't played the way he should so far.  the question is do you want to hit the panic button now or not?  i'm not there yet.  i think josh will settle in and this team will evolve.  how a team plays not is not a representation of how they might be playing in the final quarter of the season...good or bad.  

[DCOrange]

We're at a luxury at this point where we can probably be good enough while he plays through this rut of his that we'll still be a playoff team. He has plenty of time to figure it out. We just have to hope that he does.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Defenses are treating the bills how they treat the chiefs. They tell the defensive line to worry about pass rush first, then have the dbs force the QB to his 3rd or 4th read

 

Allen and daboll are compounding this with stubbornness

 

The bills need to run the ball and switch up the first and second read receivers on a handful of plays

 

The second half in Miami was a great start to rebounding in my opinion

Edited September 20, 2021 by Cheektowaga Chad

[CountDorkula]

3 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Keep in mind the offense only played about 2 quarters the entire preseason.   It has taken a couple games to find their rhythm.

 

I believe Josh and the offense will get on track and keep improving.

What about every other team whos starters barely played pre-season? That excuse doesn't work.

 

Allen has been off, he needs to figure it out, or this team wont go far.

 

This team goes as Allen goes.