"Pittsburgh Confused Josh Allen" - Chris Simms

[QCity]

28 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

why should we care about his Xs and Os.

 

 

Because he's right.

[Eastport bills]

6 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Because he's right.

Excellent analysis. Thanks 

[Coach Tuesday]

45 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Sorry Hapless, I don't care what justification your using. A novice, failed NFL QB, doesn't label a great player as being confused. Any other more established analysts on 24/7 football breakdown shows use the term "confused ". He's trying to be groundbreaking to get clicks and eyeballs at the expense of the guy experts feel can go to the SB. Who the heck is Jom Kubiak,  and why should we care about his Xs and Os.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know this is a weird thing to say but I can kind of picture what your garage looks like.

[WhoTom]

They should've played "Renegade" in the stadium to confuse the Steelers.

 

[Eastport bills]

20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I know this is a weird thing to say but I can kind of picture what your garage looks like.

I live in a highrise, no garage. Any thoughts on my refrigerator or my sock drawer Coach Thursday. 

[Don Otreply]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:09 PM, Jauronimo said:

They could have executed on the plays that were there and been solid on special teams and easily won that game.

True, but that wasn’t the case in this game, and then it’s on the OC to be able to make changes to compensate for that, Dabol doesn’t do that in mid series, and is barely competent doing so at half time, it’s his weakness that will prevent him from ever being a HC, his thinking/strategies are far to inflexible, we have all been witness to it, and now every team has a bunch of tape on his offense…, think about that and the ramifications there in. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Sorry Hapless, I don't care what justification your using. A novice, failed NFL QB, doesn't label a great player as being confused. Any other more established analysts on 24/7 football breakdown shows use the term "confused ". He's trying to be groundbreaking to get clicks and eyeballs at the expense of the guy experts feel can go to the SB. Who the heck is Jom Kubiak,  and why should we care about his Xs and Os.

 

This is either a semantic argument where you're specifically taking umbrage with the word "confused".  That's your right, but if you actually watch the clip and/or read Kubiak's article, it's clear he has a specific meaning with regard to the way the Bills offense operates, where it depends critically on Allen and his receivers interpreting the defense the same way and doing the same thing, in response to what they interpret.  It's not intended as a personal criticism of Allen as a player (clearly, in the context). Substitute some other word that makes you less indignant and try to extract the meaning, because I think they both have valid points and I hope that Daboll and his assistants are working on counters because we'll see this again next time we play a team with a dominant front 7 and a "good enough" secondary.

 

Or don't, I really don't care, but "Sorry @Eastport bills" I think your indignation is misplaced.

 

The other possibility is that you have no particular umbrage at the word "confused" but you're generally indignant that a fringe NFL player dares to criticize one of the best QB in the game.  It's essentially argument by expertise: If someone has a lower level of skills as a player, How Dare They criticize someone?  Yet most of the coaches who played, played in college and either didn't have the skills for the NFL or were lower tier players who had a relatively short career as backups.  So by your logic, coaches shouldn't criticize players, in which case, how could coaching take place

 

The bottom line is that someone's mental knowledge of the game and the X's and O's and ability to break it down are not dependent upon their success as NFL players (where superior athleticism plays a large role).  We all know there are commentators who were great, HOF players and who are mediocre in their ability to research and break down the game.

 

There's a lot to be learned from both pieces about what went wrong with Pittsburgh and I hope these are things our coaches are addressing.

 

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

Excellent analysis. Thanks 

 

I'm glad you've come around

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

I don't agree. It's still criticism after one half of the 1st game, where adjustments weren't made by the coaching staff and O-line breakdowns were plentiful. Sean even admitted to being outcoached. Dabol admitted to forcing the issue with being predictable. Remember the damage to Darnold when he was indicted for being confused and said he was seeing ghosts. It almost destroyed his career.

 

*sigh* Or maybe not.  Please go watch with an attempt at an open mind and go read Kubiak's article and then come back and talk about it.

 

The whole point of the piece is that the Steelers were exploiting our game plan by using what is normally a strength (option routes where the receivers have flexibility to change what they do based on what they 'read" from the defense) and turning it into a weakness.  The coaches and Josh needed to understand what was being done in order to make adjustments that will fix it. 

 

There are probably some other things the coaches could have tried but I think it's probably simplistic to say "just make adjustments".

[Eastport bills]

29 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This is either a semantic argument where you're specifically taking umbrage with the word "confused".  That's your right, but if you actually watch the clip and/or read Kubiak's article, it's clear he has a specific meaning with regard to the way the Bills offense operates, where it depends critically on Allen and his receivers interpreting the defense the same way and doing the same thing, in response to what they interpret.  It's not intended as a personal criticism of Allen as a player (clearly, in the context). Substitute some other word that makes you less indignant and try to extract the meaning, because I think they both have valid points and I hope that Daboll and his assistants are working on counters because we'll see this again next time we play a team with a dominant front 7 and a "good enough" secondary.

 

Or don't, I really don't care, but "Sorry @Eastport bills" I think your indignation is misplaced.

 

The other possibility is that you have no particular umbrage at the word "confused" but you're generally indignant that a fringe NFL player dares to criticize one of the best QB in the game.  It's essentially argument by expertise: If someone has a lower level of skills as a player, How Dare They criticize someone?  Yet most of the coaches who played, played in college and either didn't have the skills for the NFL or were lower tier players who had a relatively short career as backups.  So by your logic, coaches shouldn't criticize players, in which case, how could coaching take place

 

The bottom line is that someone's mental knowledge of the game and the X's and O's and ability to break it down are not dependent upon their success as NFL players (where superior athleticism plays a large role).  We all know there are commentators who were great, HOF players and who are mediocre in their ability to research and break down the game.

 

There's a lot to be learned from both pieces about what went wrong with Pittsburgh and I hope these are things our coaches are addressing.

 

 

I'm glad you've come around

My problem is exactly the word "confused ". As I stated previously, Simms should not be throwing around descriptions like confused when the D-line is in his face with 4 man rushes the entire 2nd half and he doesn't have a running play called until they go into prevent after the punt block. The description of being confused diminishes this kid's greatness. Have you ever heard that description used for Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers or Big Ben? It’s always either the O-line was abused or the running game was shut down or the receivers couldn't get separation. It's the 2nd half of the 1st game we're talking about. 

[PolishDave]

23 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

My problem is exactly the word "confused ". As I stated previously, Simms should not be throwing around descriptions like confused when the D-line is in his face with 4 man rushes the entire 2nd half and he doesn't have a running play called until they go into prevent after the punt block. The description of being confused diminishes this kid's greatness. Have you ever heard that description used for Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers or Big Ben? It’s always either the O-line was abused or the running game was shut down or the receivers couldn't get separation. It's the 2nd half of the 1st game we're talking about. 

 

He looked "confused" to me.  

 

No doubt the Bills expected Pittsburgh to blitz a lot more than they did based on previous games and previous film.   When those blitzes didn't come and the guys who were lined up to blitz dropped back into coverage, there is little doubt that it would confuse Allen.      It would interrupt/delay his decision making (hence the word "confused") because defenders weren't going where he expected them to go.

 

His confusion was probably momentary (a couple seconds) and yes by then he was under pressure so he didn't have time to calmly read the field again.

 

Using the word "confused" doesn't diminish my opinion of Josh Allen one bit.   All of those quarterbacks you mentioned also get confused from time to time when playing football.   None of them are infallible.   It is not insulting to say they looked confused.  It does not diminish Josh Allen in the least unless it could be said about him consistently in many games.   And it's not.   It's okay that Josh Allen isn't perfect.  

 

I would challenge the use of your wording "greatness".    Josh Allen has not been playing excellent football long enough nor consistently enough to be talking about his "greatness".    I think he needs to dominate a lot more great defenses first.  He failed to do that in his last opportunity.   Allen has only shown glimpses of what I would refer to as greatness.

[Eastport bills]

2 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

He looked "confused" to me.  

 

No doubt the Bills expected Pittsburgh to blitz a lot more than they did based on previous games and previous film.   When those blitzes didn't come and the guys who were lined up to blitz dropped back into coverage, there is little doubt that it would confuse Allen.      It would interrupt/delay his decision making (hence the word "confused") because defenders weren't going where he expected them to go.

 

His confusion was probably momentary (a couple seconds) and yes by then he was under pressure so he didn't have time to calmly read the field again.

 

Using the word "confused" doesn't diminish my opinion of Josh Allen one bit.   All of those quarterbacks you mentioned also get confused from time to time when playing football.   None of them are infallible.   It is not insulting to say they looked confused.  It does not diminish Josh Allen in the least unless it could be said about him consistently in many games.   And it's not.   It's okay that Josh Allen isn't perfect.  

 

I would challenge the use of your wording "greatness".    Josh Allen has not been playing excellent football long enough nor consistently enough to be talking about his "greatness".    I think he needs to dominate a lot more great defenses first.  He failed to do that in his last opportunity.   Allen has only shown glimpses of what I would refer to as greatness.

That's a reasonable take,however when you put a gamer like Josh consistently in a vulnerable scenario where he has to make things happen vs 4 man pressure overwhelming his O-line and in empty 4 and 5 receiver sets consistently, the playcaller is setting him up to fail. Regardless, the punt block was the difference in the game and in 2 of the 2nd half series he moved the ball. You want to blame his "confusion" for the mindless 4th down playcall that killed a plus territory drive, or the Sanders drop or the idea of Pitt dropping 7 because there was never a thought of a running game. I don’t like "confusion " attached to Josh after they crapped the bed in the 2nd half of the 1st game as a team and a coaching staff. We'll have the discussion about greatness at another time. The Bills certainly paid like a great QB.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

My problem is exactly the word "confused ". As I stated previously, Simms should not be throwing around descriptions like confused when the D-line is in his face with 4 man rushes the entire 2nd half and he doesn't have a running play called until they go into prevent after the punt block. The description of being confused diminishes this kid's greatness. Have you ever heard that description used for Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers or Big Ben? It’s always either the O-line was abused or the running game was shut down or the receivers couldn't get separation. It's the 2nd half of the 1st game we're talking about. 

 

Then I suggest you "get over it", and not let your indignation with word choice interfere with your ability to process the point someone is making?

 

I could be wrong, but I think if Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers, or Big Ben appeared confused by the opposing team's defensive coverage, Sims would say so.  In fact I believe I recall just that description about a NE game a couple years back.

[Eastport bills]

31 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

 

He looked "confused" to me.  

 

No doubt the Bills expected Pittsburgh to blitz a lot more than they did based on previous games and previous film.   When those blitzes didn't come and the guys who were lined up to blitz dropped back into coverage, there is little doubt that it would confuse Allen.      It would interrupt/delay his decision making (hence the word "confused") because defenders weren't going where he expected them to go.

 

His confusion was probably momentary (a couple seconds) and yes by then he was under pressure so he didn't have time to calmly read the field again.

 

Using the word "confused" doesn't diminish my opinion of Josh Allen one bit.   All of those quarterbacks you mentioned also get confused from time to time when playing football.   None of them are infallible.   It is not insulting to say they looked confused.  It does not diminish Josh Allen in the least unless it could be said about him consistently in many games.   And it's not.   It's okay that Josh Allen isn't perfect.  

 

I would challenge the use of your wording "greatness".    Josh Allen has not been playing excellent football long enough nor consistently enough to be talking about his "greatness".    I think he needs to dominate a lot more great defenses first.  He failed to do that in his last opportunity.   Allen has only shown glimpses of what I would refer to as greatness.

How quickly we forget. Josh singlehandedly beat Indy last season. He beat the Baltimore,Pittsburgh, San Francisco, LA, Seattle NE and Miami twice each, in his 3rd season. Two playoff berths in 3 seasons. Two playoff wins. He had a bad half and he's got prove to you he can consistently beat good defense? Which young QB, other than Mahomes, whose playcaller is light-years better than our guy, is better thru 3 seasons?

[Eastport bills]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Then I suggest you "get over it", and not let your indignation with word choice interfere with your ability to process the point someone is making?

 

I could be wrong, but I think if Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Rogers, or Big Ben appeared confused by the opposing team's defensive coverage, Sims would say so.  In fact I believe I recall just that description about a NE game a couple years back.

I dismissed the point immediately. I don't take knee-jerk positions from TV "experts" seriously. I heard many of them say Brady was finished after struggling last year for 2 games. The same "experts "said Winston can't win in the NFL and Josh will never be accurate. This is an open forum for divergent opinions, never any reason to "get over it".

[Nextmanup]

On 9/16/2021 at 1:09 AM, Jauronimo said:

They could have executed on the plays that were there and been solid on special teams and easily won that game.

If Allen hits the big bomb for an easy TD that he missed, and we never allow the blocked punt and resulting TD fiasco, it's a different game! 

 

Allen was still "confused," or "hampered," or "put off" for much of the game, however.

 

Pittsburgh's approach on D was close to perfect, but they have the personnel to do that.  

A lot of other teams do not.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Eastport bills said:

I dismissed the point immediately. I don't take knee-jerk positions from TV "experts" seriously. I heard many of them say Brady was finished after struggling last year for 2 games. The same "experts "said Winston can't win in the NFL and Josh will never be accurate. This is an open forum for divergent opinions, never any reason to "get over it".

 

Oh FFS, I give up.  This isn't a "position" much less a "knee jerk" reaction.  It's an adjective used to describe his specific observations about the game, backed up by detailed breakdown showing just what Pitts did. 

 

It has nothing to do with pronouncements about a player's overall status like "Winston can't win" or "Brady is finished", and it has nothing to do with a player's past successful performance.  On this week, he seemed confused, and they break down what Pitts did to achieve that.  You admit Brady struggled in the first 2 games of last season, it would be akin to the breakdowns explaining exactly why and pointing what Tampa could do to address this.

 

The reason you should "get over it" is because it's off the mark. It's clearly something you're taking offense to and waxing indignant about "how Dare anyone criticizes our Great QB unless it's a former Great QB"  without actually paying attention to what was really said and why (and if Bradshaw or Brees said similar then you'd find a different reason to take offense to it I'm guessing). 

 

But like I said, do it or don't, I don't care.

46 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

If Allen hits the big bomb for an easy TD that he missed, and we never allow the blocked punt and resulting TD fiasco, it's a different game! 

 

Allen was still "confused," or "hampered," or "put off" for much of the game, however.

 

Pittsburgh's approach on D was close to perfect, but they have the personnel to do that.  

A lot of other teams do not.

 

Agreed on all points.  And every player is going to miss some of those kill shots, which is why the best teams need to overcome the misses with overall solid play.

[dave mcbride]

23 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh FFS, I give up.  This isn't a "position" much less a "knee jerk" reaction.  It's an adjective used to describe his specific observations about the game, backed up by detailed breakdown showing just what Pitts did. 

 

It has nothing to do with pronouncements about a player's overall status like "Winston can't win" or "Brady is finished", and it has nothing to do with a player's past successful performance.  On this week, he seemed confused, and they break down what Pitts did to achieve that.  You admit Brady struggled in the first 2 games of last season, it would be akin to the breakdowns explaining exactly why and pointing what Tampa could do to address this.

 

The reason you should "get over it" is because it's off the mark. It's clearly something you're taking offense to and waxing indignant about "how Dare anyone criticizes our Great QB unless it's a former Great QB"  without actually paying attention to what was really said and why (and if Bradshaw or Brees said similar then you'd find a different reason to take offense to it I'm guessing). 

 

But like I said, do it or don't, I don't care.

 

Agreed on all points.  And every player is going to miss some of those kill shots, which is why the best teams need to overcome the misses with overall solid play.

Allen’s rating vs Pitt over the past three seasons:

 

2019: 65.2

2020: 77.5

2021: 79.7

 

He clearly struggles against what they throw at him. Confusion is certainly part of it, as is talent on the other side of the ball.

Edited September 17, 2021 by dave mcbride

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh FFS, I give up.  This isn't a "position" much less a "knee jerk" reaction.  It's an adjective used to describe his specific observations about the game, backed up by detailed breakdown showing just what Pitts did. 

 

It has nothing to do with pronouncements about a player's overall status like "Winston can't win" or "Brady is finished", and it has nothing to do with a player's past successful performance.  On this week, he seemed confused, and they break down what Pitts did to achieve that.  You admit Brady struggled in the first 2 games of last season, it would be akin to the breakdowns explaining exactly why and pointing what Tampa could do to address this.

 

The reason you should "get over it" is because it's off the mark. It's clearly something you're taking offense to and waxing indignant about "how Dare anyone criticizes our Great QB unless it's a former Great QB"  without actually paying attention to what was really said and why (and if Bradshaw or Brees said similar then you'd find a different reason to take offense to it I'm guessing). 

 

But like I said, do it or don't, I don't care.

 

Agreed on all points.  And every player is going to miss some of those kill shots, which is why the best teams need to overcome the misses with overall solid play.

This will be my final installment. If you want to buy in to these experts and their film interpretation, great. Pronouncements have to start somewhere and these frivolous talking points take on a life of their own when some self-styled "expert" starts calling a SB caliber QBs "confused". God forbid he should lose another game. Hey,Simms has got you as a true believer. Con. grats.

[QCity]

15 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

This will be my final installment. If you want to buy in to these experts and their film interpretation, great. Pronouncements have to start somewhere and these frivolous talking points take on a life of their own when some self-styled "expert" starts calling a SB caliber QBs "confused". God forbid he should lose another game. Hey,Simms has got you as a true believer. Con. grats.

 

Man, you are going to have a rough time on these forums if something this frivolous gets you so bent out of shape.

[Eastport bills]

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Man, you are going to have a rough time on these forums if something this frivolous gets you so bent out of shape.

I don't take anything seriously. This is fun. I call players and coaches out, but we've been desperate for a guy to take us to the promised land for 30 years and after 1/2 of the 1st game goes bad, I'm not using terms like "confused" to describe him. Comprendo.