JaCrispy Posted September 15, 2021 Author Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sundancer said: I have read revelation. I don't remember vaccinations. So you think this time it's really the end of times? Four horsemen and the like? And you also think that despite countries being more at odds than I can recall in recent history, we are headed to a one world government, where the likes of Iran, China, Russia, the US, India, UK, Germany, Israel, Canada all give over their sovereign powers to some single entity? I am trying to understand your position. Ok, I will take you at your word that you are genuinely trying to understand...if you want to speak more on it, you can pm me about it...but I don’t want to take this thread off track into a religious discussion...
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, JaCrispy said: “These people”? We aren’t a monolith...we don’t all agree or disagree...it’s not pro vax vs anti vax...it’s much more complicated than that...people vary in the degrees to which they view certain information...people also vary in the degrees with how fearful they allow themselves to become, or how much freedom they want or don’t want... But to dwindle it down to either this or that seems a little disingenuous...there are many more layers you’re choosing to ignore... And by the way, 70% of black people don’t want to take the vaccine...are they all part of the GQP Trump brigade? You do realize there are twice as many Republicans as there are black people in the United States, right? It is also hugely disingenuous to compare black reluctance when compared to Q-Anon GQP Trumpist influenced people and anti-vaxxers doing it purely for political hubris, right? We see it EVERY day here. And... The ‘what about Black people’ defense of Republican vaccine hesitancy Of course, that Black Americans are more hesitant about being vaccinated than White Democrats in particular doesn’t really help the argument that Black hesitation rates should be compared unfavorably with Republicans. It’s also disingenuous to compare Black and White vaccination rates overall, since White rates are actually higher in part because so many White people are Democrats! Republicans keep hiding behind White Democrats to shift vaccine hesitancy blame onto Black Americans Republicans are trying to use the fact that most Republicans are White to imply that most Whites are Republican, which isn’t true. The reality is that Black vaccination rates do reflect a greater hesitancy than is true of Whites overall, but Blacks are less hesitant that White Republicans.
Sundancer Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 2 hours ago, JaCrispy said: Ok, I will take you at your word that you are genuinely trying to understand...if you want to speak more on it, you can pm me about it...but I don’t want to take this thread off track into a religious discussion... I am not into the religious mockery thing. I had a brief phase of it and I’m ashamed by it. But I’m also not into conversion talk. Every age believes theirs is the end of time. Western minds are narcissistically obsessed by the notion. There’s an interesting book about this consistent trend. Whether it’s religious end of days, climate end of days, you name it. We are prey animals perhaps deep down always looking for the lion. I don’t know why we do it. But we do.
The Frankish Reich Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 19 hours ago, TSOL said: I have been rockin the natural immunity for 23 months now. Since mid-October 2019? Are you Patient Zero? The guy who ordered the Wuhan Bat Stew two years ago? 1
SoCal Deek Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Sundancer said: I am not into the religious mockery thing. I had a brief phase of it and I’m ashamed by it. But I’m also not into conversion talk. Every age believes theirs is the end of time. Western minds are narcissistically obsessed by the notion. There’s an interesting book about this consistent trend. Whether it’s religious end of days, climate end of days, you name it. We are prey animals perhaps deep down always looking for the lion. I don’t know why we do it. But we do. I've said the same thing many times, in different ways, but I really like the "looking for the lion" line. 🙂
TSOL Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 26 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Since mid-October 2019? Are you Patient Zero? The guy who ordered the Wuhan Bat Stew two years ago? Joke all you want but i had it in October 2019, im not kidding. 3½ weeks of fever, low energy, vicious cough. No taste, no smell. I worked through it. I also know who i got it from. Im not one to get sick except for every 4-5 years. I was around my kids, my parents, my family. Is it a stretch for you to believe that what we hear in the media is not always the full truth?
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, TSOL said: Joke all you want but i had it in October 2019, im not kidding. 3½ weeks of fever, low energy, vicious cough. No taste, no smell. I worked through it. I also know who i got it from. Im not one to get sick except for every 4-5 years. I was around my kids, my parents, my family. Is it a stretch for you to believe that what we hear in the media is not always the full truth? Not at all - Trump knew as early as November 2019 that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region.
TSOL Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: Not at all - Trump knew as early as November 2019 that a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region. Go back to your room, the grown ups are talking 1
The Frankish Reich Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 13 minutes ago, TSOL said: Joke all you want but i had it in October 2019, im not kidding. 3½ weeks of fever, low energy, vicious cough. No taste, no smell. I worked through it. I also know who i got it from. Im not one to get sick except for every 4-5 years. I was around my kids, my parents, my family. Is it a stretch for you to believe that what we hear in the media is not always the full truth? Well, it's in the realm of the possible, but highly, highly unlikely that what you had is COVID-19. At the risk of being pilloried for citing wikipedia, I'll note that the wiki pages do a really good job of summarizing what we know about the timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_2019 And if you hadn't traveled to China around that time, the likelihood is even lower. There's really no way to know for certain since even a positive antibody test after COVID "broke" in March 2020 would be consistent with a later in time exposure. But if you had it in October 2019, you would in fact be the first known COVID 19 patient. Where were you in September/October 2019?
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, TSOL said: Go back to your room, the grown ups are talking Aren't you disappointed your cult leader denied the severity and impact of Covid over and over and over again? So many people died due to his lack of leadership and dereliction of duty. People are still dying today because they listen to SOBs like Jesus Trump, DeathDeSantis, Handsmaid Covid-infested Abbott and the rest of your fascist regime leaders. As of 6 a.m. EDT Sept. 14, a total of 179,289,983 Americans had been fully vaccinated, or 54 percent of the country's population. 1. Vermont Number of people fully vaccinated: 428,656 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 68.7 2. Connecticut Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,398,333 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67.27 3. Maine Number of people fully vaccinated: 900,614 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 67. 4. Massachusetts Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,611,446 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 66.91 5. Rhode Island Number of people fully vaccinated: 701,682 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 66.24 6. New Jersey Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,587,002 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.9 7. Maryland Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,794,876 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 62.77 8. New York Number of people fully vaccinated: 12,032,960 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 61.85 9. Washington Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,698,544 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 61.7 10. New Mexico Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,288,968 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 61.47 11. New Hampshire Number of people fully vaccinated: 824,795 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 60.66 12. Oregon Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,501,336 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 59.31 13. District of Columbia Number of people fully vaccinated: 414,386 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 58.72 14. Virginia Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,006,507 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 58.65 15. Colorado Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,346,895 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 58.12 16. California Number of people fully vaccinated: 22,640,451 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 57.3 17. Minnesota Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,217,321 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 57.05 18. Delaware Number of people fully vaccinated: 550,091 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 56.49 19. Hawaii Number of people fully vaccinated: 799,729 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 56.48 20. Pennsylvania Number of people fully vaccinated: 7,226,149 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 56.45 21. Florida Number of people fully vaccinated: 11,872,566 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 55.28 22. Wisconsin Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,209,820 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 55.13 23. Nebraska Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,032,416 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 53.37 24. Iowa Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,667,428 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 52.85 25. Illinois Number of people fully vaccinated: 6,627,684 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 52.3 26. Michigan Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,119,223 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 51.26 27. South Dakota Number of people fully vaccinated: 445,130 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.32 28. Kentucky Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,243,979 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 50.23 29. Arizona Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,626,908 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.83 30. Kansas Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,447,023 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.67 31. Ohio Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,765,330 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.32 32. Nevada Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,518,436 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.3 33. Texas Number of people fully vaccinated: 14,278,607 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 49.24 34. Utah Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,567,519 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.89 35. Alaska Number of people fully vaccinated: 354,618 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.48 36. North Carolina Number of people fully vaccinated: 5,038,028 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 48.04 37. Montana Number of people fully vaccinated: 504,921 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 47.24 38. Indiana Number of people fully vaccinated: 3,177,308 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 47.2 39. Missouri Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,853,498 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 46.49 40. Oklahoma Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,808,630 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.71 41. South Carolina Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,325,482 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 45.17 42. Arkansas Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,323,456 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.85 43. Tennessee Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,974,562 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.56 44. Louisiana Number of people fully vaccinated: 2,019,965 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 43.45 45. Georgia Number of people fully vaccinated: 4,544,963 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.81 46. North Dakota Number of people fully vaccinated: 325,756 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 42.75 47. Mississippi Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,229,562 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 41.31 48. Alabama Number of people fully vaccinated: 1,980,807 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.4 49. Idaho Number of people fully vaccinated: 719,766 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.28 50. Wyoming Number of people fully vaccinated: 232,414 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 40.16 51. West Virginia Number of people fully vaccinated: 716,327 Percentage of population fully vaccinated: 39.97 1
TSOL Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 18 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Well, it's in the realm of the possible, but highly, highly unlikely that what you had is COVID-19. At the risk of being pilloried for citing wikipedia, I'll note that the wiki pages do a really good job of summarizing what we know about the timeline: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pandemic_in_2019 And if you hadn't traveled to China around that time, the likelihood is even lower. There's really no way to know for certain since even a positive antibody test after COVID "broke" in March 2020 would be consistent with a later in time exposure. But if you had it in October 2019, you would in fact be the first known COVID 19 patient. Where were you in September/October 2019? Cheektowaga, I dont travel, neither do the people i work with but i got it from someone at work and im telling you, it was covid. Of course if i was reading this from another poster id be skeptical to say the least. It was being seeded. And i dont think we get the real story on anything from the media. 1
TH3 Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 21 hours ago, JaCrispy said: One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid... Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine... This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?! This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report.... But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems.... Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed... This makes zero sense….and your lame effort to put ulterior motives on people doesn’t work. More people vaccinated this crap is over sooner…less strain on our HC system and less drag on economy. There is nothing political about it. 2
BillStime Posted September 15, 2021 Posted September 15, 2021 59 minutes ago, TH3 said: This makes zero sense….and your lame effort to put ulterior motives on people doesn’t work. More people vaccinated this crap is over sooner…less strain on our HC system and less drag on economy. There is nothing political about it. Its all political for the GQP - the more deaths on Bidens watch the better.
JaCrispy Posted September 16, 2021 Author Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, TH3 said: This makes zero sense….and your lame effort to put ulterior motives on people doesn’t work. More people vaccinated this crap is over sooner…less strain on our HC system and less drag on economy. There is nothing political about it. I agree with vaccine use, but I just also include natural immunity as well...and any doctor or scientist will tell you the same...that has been the case since the dawn of time... Edited September 16, 2021 by JaCrispy
Doc Brown Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 10:55 PM, JaCrispy said: Without knowing some of the finer details you mentioned, I actually agree with most of what you said... My perspective comes more from that of already having covid and feeling I shouldn’t be mandated to take the vaccine because of my natural immunity...but I feel our officials aren’t following the science, when it comes to that...In fact, no one is even talking about it...maybe it’s because you can’t make money off of natural immunity...but you have to admit, the silence on the matter is deafening... Logistics. Natural immunity from prior Covid infection is harder to study and track. People could simply lie and say they already tested positive for Covid. There's also only upside in getting the vaccine even if you already had Covid as numerous studies have showed substantial antibody response for those who've had Covid and then were vaccinated (compared to unvaccinated previously infected people vs. only vaccination people). If the goal is to prevent as many people as possible from contracting the virus, it makes sense from a policy perspective to mandate vaccines whether you were previously infected or not. They are following the science in that regard. 1
billsfan5121 Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 4 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Logistics. Natural immunity from prior Covid infection is harder to study and track. People could simply lie and say they already tested positive for Covid. There's also only upside in getting the vaccine even if you already had Covid as numerous studies have showed substantial antibody response for those who've had Covid and then were vaccinated (compared to unvaccinated previously infected people vs. only vaccination people). If the goal is to prevent as many people as possible from contracting the virus, it makes sense from a policy perspective to mandate vaccines whether you were previously infected or not. They are following the science in that regard. I have a dumb question. So I see this and also heard yesterday that there is no reliable way of testing antibodies to see if someone who had a previous infection had the antibodies, resulting in immunity. If that were the case, how do you test the antibodies of vaccinated people to know they have antibodies for immunity?
North Buffalo Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, TSOL said: I have been rockin the natural immunity for 23 months now. Im feeling pretty confident in it. I do think alot of at risk people should get vaccinated though Im rocking both... but Im a hospital worker and dont go into large crowds... not taking any chances... again saw 11 people die a day a year and half ago including docs, nurses and kids... I have a family to protect... do both and be safe imo...
jhh9327 Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 On 9/14/2021 at 10:55 PM, JaCrispy said: My perspective comes more from that of already having covid and feeling I shouldn’t be mandated to take the vaccine because of my natural immunity...but I feel our officials aren’t following the science, when it comes to that...In fact, no one is even talking about it...maybe it’s because you can’t make money off of natural immunity...but you have to admit, the silence on the matter is deafening... This 100%. No one on the mandate side of the argument in this thread or in the media wants to touch this part of the topic. The silence on the matter is deafening indeed. And it is insulting to the public's intelligence with the way Fauci has tried to pretend he doesn't know anything about it and maybe it is something they should look into.
All_Pro_Bills Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, billsfan5121 said: I have a dumb question. So I see this and also heard yesterday that there is no reliable way of testing antibodies to see if someone who had a previous infection had the antibodies, resulting in immunity. If that were the case, how do you test the antibodies of vaccinated people to know they have antibodies for immunity? Not a dumb question at all. But rather something important. Because if the immune response generated by the vaccine is consistent with the immune response generated by natural immunity then the ability or inability to identify or use antibody level measures as an indicator of effectiveness should be consistent. And if you look at clinical trial outcomes measures (primary & secondary) like the Pfizer vaccine trial they list, for example: "Proportion of participants in Phase 1 achieving a greater than or equal to 4-fold rise from before vaccination in SARS-CoV-2 serum neutralizing antibody levels [ Time Frame: Through 2 years after the final dose ] As measured at the central laboratory." Which I read as the vaccine generates antibodies. So why can we measure these antibodies in a vaccine clinical trial but not from natural immunity? Maybe the FDA, CDC, NIH, etc. can explain? How you can not measure antibodies accurately in the case of natural immunity but you can measure antibodies accurately in the case of vaccination? Or maybe you can't? Edited September 16, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills 1
oldmanfan Posted September 16, 2021 Posted September 16, 2021 6 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Not a dumb question at all. But rather something important. Because if the immune response generated by the vaccine is consistent with the immune response generated by natural immunity then the ability or inability to identify or use antibody level measures as an indicator of effectiveness should be consistent. And if you look at clinical trial outcomes measures (primary & secondary) like the Pfizer vaccine trial they list, for example: "Proportion of participants in Phase 1 achieving a greater than or equal to 4-fold rise from before vaccination in SARS-CoV-2 serum neutralizing antibody levels [ Time Frame: Through 2 years after the final dose ] As measured at the central laboratory." Which I read as the vaccine generates antibodies. So why can we measure these antibodies in a vaccine clinical trial but not from natural immunity? Maybe the FDA, CDC, NIH, etc. can explain? How you can not measure antibodies accurately in the case of natural immunity but you can measure antibodies accurately in the case of vaccination? Or maybe you can't? This would be a good study to do.
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