Report: Natural immunity up to 13 times stronger than vaccine

[JaCrispy]

 

[TSOL]

I have been rockin the natural immunity for 23 months now. Im feeling pretty confident in it. I do think alot of at risk people should get vaccinated though 

[Big Blitz]

36 minutes ago, TSOL said:

I have been rockin the natural immunity for 23 months now. Im feeling pretty confident in it. I do think alot of at risk people should get vaccinated though 

 

 

Simple.  

 

But because these morons think immortality is waiting for them if we get to zero covid, they will continue to treat us like subjects.  

[JaCrispy]

One of the reasons I wanted to post this is because I just finished a tough 2 week bout with covid...
 

Relatives keep asking me if I’m finally going to get the shot...but now that I’ve had the Delta variant, I really don’t see the point- especially if my immunity is now stronger than the vaccine...

 

This is what I don’t get about the government pushing mandates, and Fauci saying he knows NOTHING about natural immunity...that’s really crazy when you think about it...Fauci’s whole job is to study covid and how it affects people in every way...and you’re telling me that, after 18 months, he knows NOTHING about natural immunity- after all the people that have gotten it and survived?!?!?!

 

This kind of tells me that maybe the goal has never really been about herd immunity...because if it was, then people with natural immunity should have just as much privilege as vaccinated people imo- maybe even more after this report....

 

But instead, the actions of Fauci and the government make it seem like the goal is just to get everyone vaccinated, regardless of natural immunity- which seems extremely odd to me...that is not following the science...and it is this odd behavior that makes me not want to get the vaccine for how shady it seems....

 

Now, I am pro vaccine for whoever wants to get it...but saying you’re following the science, while completely ignoring natural immunity just doesn’t add up to me, and makes it seem like there is an ulterior motive to get everyone vaxxed...

[Sundancer]

That study has a lot of flaws but perhaps the biggest is even if its conclusion on the 13x is correct (dubious given its many problems not the least of which is a small sample size and observations study), the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is huge and the difference between previous infection+vax vs unvaccinated is bigger than just previous infection. 
 

The way to herd immunity is through vaccination, not natural immunity. If you had Covid, follow the advice of your doctor on whether you should get a shot. Seriously. Don’t trust a YouTube video or a Bills message board. 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

That study has a lot of flaws but perhaps the biggest is even if its conclusion on the 13x is correct (dubious given its many problems not the least of which is a small sample size and observations study), the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is huge and the difference between previous infection+vax vs unvaccinated is bigger than just previous infection. 
 

The way to herd immunity is through vaccination, not natural immunity. If you had Covid, follow the advice of your doctor on whether you should get a shot. Seriously. Don’t trust a YouTube video or a Bills message board. 

How many unvaccinated Americans are there? It’s not limitless. 

[JaCrispy]

2 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

That study has a lot of flaws but perhaps the biggest is even if its conclusion on the 13x is correct (dubious given its many problems not the least of which is a small sample size and observations study), the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is huge and the difference between previous infection+vax vs unvaccinated is bigger than just previous infection. 
 

The way to herd immunity is through vaccination, not natural immunity. If you had Covid, follow the advice of your doctor on whether you should get a shot. Seriously. Don’t trust a YouTube video or a Bills message board. 

But isn’t the whole point of the vaccine to create an environment in the cells that is achieved by natural immunity...therefore, wouldn’t it only make sense that you can get herd immunity through vaccine AND natural immunity? Isn’t that how it’s always been throughout human history?

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

How many unvaccinated Americans are there? It’s not limitless. 

Good question...I would guess around 40% unvaxxed...

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

But isn’t the whole point of the vaccine to create an environment in the cells that is achieved by natural immunity...therefore, wouldn’t it only make sense that you can get herd immunity through vaccine AND natural immunity? Isn’t that how it’s always been throughout human history?

Glad you survived the infection.  Unfortunately, to rely purely on natural immunity would mean you would have to play Russian roulette with people’s lives. Millions would die because their immune systems can’t attain the immunity.  This is why vaccines have been one of the most significant advances in medical history.

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

 

Good question...I would guess around 40% unvaxxed...

So if 100 million already had Covid and another 60% are vaccinated then it stands to reason there very few hosts left….no?

[JaCrispy]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

So if 100 million already had Covid and another 60% are vaccinated then it stands to reason there very few hosts left….no?

I would agree with this...But I will add, that I don’t know, for certain, how many people that have had covid and also gotten the shot.

 

I think we are pretty immune to the original covid 19...I think what we are seeing now is Delta, which the current vaccine has less of an effect on...

 

But most reports are suggesting, while more contagious, Delta is less deadly...

 

 

[TSOL]

21 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

That study has a lot of flaws but perhaps the biggest is even if its conclusion on the 13x is correct (dubious given its many problems not the least of which is a small sample size and observations study), the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated is huge and the difference between previous infection+vax vs unvaccinated is bigger than just previous infection. 
 

The way to herd immunity is through vaccination, not natural immunity. If you had Covid, follow the advice of your doctor on whether you should get a shot. Seriously. Don’t trust a YouTube video or a Bills message board. 

 

 

You sound like you have a medical degree from CNN University 

 

At risk people, fine, i will give you that. But i cant accept mandates for healthy people. 

[Backintheday544]

27 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

You sound like you have a medical degree from CNN University 

 

At risk people, fine, i will give you that. But i cant accept mandates for healthy people. 

Vaccine mandates in the US are about the same age as the 2nd amendment.

 

George Washington himself, you may not know this but he was a founding father, actually pushed vaccine mandates.

@Sundancer has great medics advice. Don’t listen to YouTube, don’t listen to Two Bills Drive doctors… go talk to your doctors and see what they say. 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by Backintheday544

[TSOL]

19 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

Vaccine mandates in the US are about the same age as the 2nd amendment.

 

George Washington himself, you may not know this but he was a founding father, actually pushed vaccine mandates.

@Sundancer has great medics advice. Don’t listen to YouTube, don’t listen to Two Bills Drive doctors… go talk to your doctors and see what they say. 

 

 

 

Health care workers are begining to sue over the vaccine mandates. I was just listening to a story on the local news a few minutes ago. Fox 29 

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Glad you survived the infection.  Unfortunately, to rely purely on natural immunity would mean you would have to play Russian roulette with people’s lives. Millions would die because their immune systems can’t attain the immunity.  This is why vaccines have been one of the most significant advances in medical history.

I hear this line all the time but the data just doesn’t seem to show this...how am I playing Russian roulette with people’s lives when studies show that covid is spread and caught just as easily by vaccinated people as the unvaccinated...In fact, people who get covid are less likely than vaccinated to get reinfected...

 

Just look at the 6 vaccinated Saints coaches who spread the virus to each other, and possibly others, this week...But you never hear people say the vaxxed are spreading covid and killing grandma...it just seems a bit disingenuous, just to try and guilt people into getting the vaccine...

Edited September 15, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Backintheday544]

Just now, TSOL said:

 

 

Health care workers are begining to sue over the vaccine mandates. I was just listening to a story on the local news a few minutes ago. Fox 29 

and are they winning? You can sue for anything. We had a President have what like 45 law suits because he was mad he lost an election and lost them all.
 

There’s plenty of cases on vaccines mandates and they’ve been upheld.

[TSOL]

Just now, Backintheday544 said:

and are they winning? You can sue for anything. We had a President have what like 45 law suits because he was mad he lost an election and lost them all.
 

There’s plenty of cases on vaccines mandates and they’ve been upheld.

 

 

Health care workers who have been taking care of sick covid patients since before vaccines were available. Now they are being forced to get the shot or lose their jobs because of fear. 

 

Its utterly ridiculous. 

 

And are they winning? Idk, we will have to wait and see. 

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, Backintheday544 said:

and are they winning? You can sue for anything. We had a President have what like 45 law suits because he was mad he lost an election and lost them all.
 

There’s plenty of cases on vaccines mandates and they’ve been upheld.

Yes they are...court in central NY just ruled the state cannot mandate vaccination without giving healthcare workers an opt out for religious reasons...judge is giving the legislature til the end of the month to change the wording in the law...

 

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-new-york-courts-lawsuits-282cf746788098425c36d8b2e0e87701

Edited September 15, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Backintheday544]

2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yes they are...court in central NY just ruled the state cannot mandate vaccination without giving healthcare workers an opt out for religious reasons...judge is giving the legislature til the end of the month to change the wording in the law...

religious opt outs are good.

 

Lets take Texas abortion for example. The Satanic temple is suing for a religious opt out of any person who wants to have an abortion under their Abortion rituals.

 

If you’re pro opting out of a vaccine for religious reasons, I have to assume you’re pro opting out of the abortion law for religious reasons.

 

Now I’m not a religious scholar but let’s use Christianity for example. I don’t think vaccines were around while the Bible was written post-Jesus death so I’d find it hard to believe vaccines are against that religion.

7 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

Health care workers who have been taking care of sick covid patients since before vaccines were available. Now they are being forced to get the shot or lose their jobs because of fear. 

 

Its utterly ridiculous. 

 

And are they winning? Idk, we will have to wait and see. 

When we fought the British and George Washington said hey you have to get vaccinated for smallpox or you will not be part of this country. Even though it would anger people who fought for our new country, they feared to lose their jobs.

 

Some jobs just have job requirements. If you don’t meet the requirement you don’t get the job.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, JaCrispy said:

I hear this line all the time but the data just doesn’t seem to show this...how am I playing Russian roulette with people’s lives when studies show that covid is spread and caught just as easily by vaccinated people as the unvaccinated...In fact, people who get covid are less likely than vaccinated to get reinfected...just look at the 6 vaccinated Saints coaches who spread the virus to each other, and possibly others, this week...But you never hear people say the vaxxed are spreading covid and killing grandma...it just seems a bit disingenuous to guilt people into getting the vaccine...

You misinterpret the data.  The delta variant can cause short term viral loads in vaccinated people.  I’m going to get in the weeds a bit so bear with me.  The virus can colonize the lining of the upper respiratory tract and multiply there, because even vaccinated people do not mount what is called a secretory antibody response, and antibody called secretory IgA.  So for a short time vaccinated people can spread.  But the time they can do so is much shorter than in unvaccinated, so you are still less likely to pass the virus if you are vaccinated.  You point to a few well publicized breakthrough infections but those are exceptions and not the rule.  People want to simplify answers to the enormously complex science of viral disease.

 

Where you are wrong with the Russian roulette is that vaccinated people are far less likely to die from Covid.  Far less.  All the data from hospitals indicate that those in ICUs and morgues are over 90% unvaccinated.  That is actual data.  And that is because once the systemic immune system sees the virus in the vaccinated individual the humoral IgG response is very effective at neutralizing the virus.  Unvaccinated people don’t get that response, and unfortunately many die.  Many.

 

Vaccinations have eradicated some diseases and allowed us to manage many more by inducing immune responses without causing actual disease.  The Covid vaccines will do the same people f we all quit fighting the science.

12 minutes ago, TSOL said:

 

 

Health care workers who have been taking care of sick covid patients since before vaccines were available. Now they are being forced to get the shot or lose their jobs because of fear. 

 

Its utterly ridiculous. 

 

And are they winning? Idk, we will have to wait and see. 

It is not.  We take care of patients. We can’t bring diseases into the hospital and put patients at risk.  Employers can mandate it, they’ve done it for flu and hepatitis for years now.

[Backintheday544]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You misinterpret the data.  The delta variant can cause short term viral loads in vaccinated people.  I’m going to get in the weeds a bit so bear with me.  The virus can colonize the lining of the upper respiratory tract and multiply there, because even vaccinated people do not mount what is called a secretory antibody response, and antibody called secretory IgA.  So for a short time vaccinated people can spread.  But the time they can do so is much shorter than in unvaccinated, so you are still less likely to pass the virus if you are vaccinated.  You point to a few well publicized breakthrough infections but those are exceptions and not the rule.  People want to simplify answers to the enormously complex science of viral disease.

 

Where you are wrong with the Russian roulette is that vaccinated people are far less likely to die from Covid.  Far less.  All the data from hospitals indicate that those in ICUs and morgues are over 90% unvaccinated.  That is actual data.  And that is because once the systemic immune system sees the virus in the vaccinated individual the humoral IgG response is very effective at neutralizing the virus.  Unvaccinated people don’t get that response, and unfortunately many die.  Many.

 

Vaccinations have eradicated some diseases and allowed us to manage many more by inducing immune responses without causing actual disease.  The Covid vaccines will do the same people f we all quit fighting the science.

With this great analysis, you seem to know what you’re talking about.

 

So please explain if given the choice:

 

1. vaccine

2. horse dewormer

 

which is safer and better?

Edited September 15, 2021 by Backintheday544