Highmark Stadium now requiring vaccination for entry

[r00tabaga]

19 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Why don't you come out to Eugene and do a round with my gf in the icu which is at capacity?   97 percent patients unvaxxed.  National guard on hand to help cause of the issues.  That vers study is horseshit. 

Or u could come to Roch, ny and go to ICU with mine. Let's double date!! ♥️

[Billsfan1972]

24 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

 

Why don't you come out to Eugene and do a round with my gf in the icu which is at capacity?   97 percent patients unvaxxed.  National guard on hand to help cause of the issues.  That vers study is horseshit. 

But, but, but....... 97% not convincing enough......😜

[SCBills]

37 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

There should only be one side (science).  Flame away 😜🤣

 

And both sides would, again, think this is an indictment of the other side.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, r00tabaga said:

And I can show you videos of the adverse effects. We could do this all day. Look at VAERS data if you're curious why younger healthier people who have already had covid are leery of the shot.

 

I understand why young healthy people who have recovered from Covid may feel their natural immunity protects them well enough.  I agree that natural immunity has been under-discussed and to some extent under-studied.  There is some decent evidence that natural immunity + 1 shot provides a huge boost in preventing infection, thus protecting vulnerable people you may be in contact with (knowingly or unknowingly).  Back in the days when I was getting my childhood perforations (1960s) this was considered a Societal Duty. 

 

If it's really data-driven about risk, here is a recent comprehensive population studies of vaccine adverse events compared to covid complications. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

It includes 880,000 vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  It's pretty clear that adverse events, while they occur, are much lower in frequency than complications of Covid infection. 

Lymphadenopathy means temporarily swollen lymph nodes, usually near the vaccine site, and is a common vaccine side effect because, Working.

 

As far as VAERS, people misunderstand what VAERS is intended to do.  Doctors are encouraged to report ALL serious adverse events occurring within a couple weeks of vaccination, so that they can be investigated and patterns detected.  It's intended to detect rare adverse events by casting a wide net then investigating.  That's how the very rare blood clot events and cardiomyopathy events were detected, by using VAERS to find patterns of excess events.   VAERS works.  But somehow the same system that detects and investigates and reports rare but serious side effects occurring at low rate of 4 per 100,000 is supposed to be "concealing" thousands of vaccine-related deaths?  (I'm not saying this is what you're saying, but it's kind of implied)

 

People raise concerns that deaths are attributed to Covid where it wasn't a primary cause (example: an elder with end-stage congestive heart failure is admitted to hospital for heart problems, tests positive for Covid without symptoms, and dies.)  This has happened, almost certainly.   But then people insist that every death reported in VAERS must be due to the vaccine - even though the EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS (someone with a history of coronary artery blockage has a heart attack and dies 2 weeks after being vaccinated and it's reported as a death in VAERS.)   Sometimes it's the same people arguing both things.  I'm not saying it's you, but I've talked to literally dozens of people who have that inconsistent approach. 

 

  

Again, I'm not saying that's what you are doing here, just making a general point of what I've heard when I talk to folks.

 

And NO, we are not going to post the videos here.  PPP or elsewhere for that.  People make Youtube videos about everything these days, they prove nothing.

[Realist]

Has anyone checked on @Sherlock Holmes lately? I'm a little worried, he's been vomiting often for 3 straight days now.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

Or maybe we should be modeling ourselves after India right now and not Israel, the most vaccinated country on earth.

Going to a Bills game in person would be nice but it's obviously not even in my top 10 of most important things in my life right now.

 

Go BILLS

 

Or maybe not.  Modi was crowing pretty loudly back in January and Februaryabout how India had brilliantly controlled Covid.  Then March happened.

 

The "Israel is the most vaccinated country on earth" is factually incorrect and has been debunked above.

 

Good perspective on overall life importance of attending sporting events, Applause (seriously!)

[r00tabaga]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand why young healthy people who have recovered from Covid may feel their natural immunity protects them well enough.  I agree that natural immunity has been under-discussed and to some extent under-studied.  There is some decent evidence that natural immunity + 1 shot provides a huge boost in preventing infection, thus protecting vulnerable people you may be in contact with (knowingly or unknowingly).  Back in the days when I was getting perforated (60s) this was considered a Societal Duty. 

 

If it's really data-driven about risk, here is a recent comprehensive population studies of vaccine adverse events compared to covid complications. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

It includes 880,000 vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  It's pretty clear that adverse events, while they occur, are much lower in frequency than complications of Covid infection. 

Lymphadenopathy means temporarily swollen lymph nodes, usually near the vaccine site, and is a common vaccine side effect because, Working.

 

As far as VAERS, people misunderstand what VAERS is intended to do.  Doctors are encouraged to report ALL serious adverse events occurring within a couple weeks of vaccination, so that they can be investigated and patterns detected.  It's intended to detect rare adverse events by casting a wide net then investigating.  That's how the very rare blood clot events and cardiomyopathy events were detected, by using VAERS to find patterns of excess events.   VAERS works.  But somehow the same system that detects and investigates and reports rare but serious side effects occurring at low rate of 4 per 100,000 is supposed to be "concealing" thousands of vaccine-related deaths?  (I'm not saying this is what you're saying, but it's kind of implied)

 

People raise concerns that deaths are attributed to Covid where it wasn't a primary cause (example: an elder with end-stage congestive heart failure is admitted to hospital for heart problems, tests positive for Covid without symptoms, and dies.)  This has happened, almost certainly.   But then people insist that every death reported in VAERS must be due to the vaccine - even though the EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS (someone with a history of coronary artery blockage has a heart attack and dies 2 weeks after being vaccinated and it's reported as a death in VAERS.)   Sometimes it's the same people arguing both things.  I'm not saying it's you, but I've talked to literally dozens of people who have that inconsistent approach. 

 

  

 

I agree with this. Dating someone in the medical field, I get ALL kinds of info. She's very open minded and I'll be the first to admit that I was probably more anti-vax in the beginning but now I've done tons of research and have corresponded on Twitter thru DM with real life epideologists who have dispelled ivermectin rumors and guided me to the shot I'll take when I absolutely HAVE to take it. Hint: it AIN'T J&J 👎

Unfortunately hamburgers and cash prizes and bills games aren't going to do it for me.

[Mike in Horseheads]

2 minutes ago, Realist said:

Has anyone checked on @Sherlock Holmes lately? I'm a little worried, he's been vomiting often for 3 straight days now.

He's had "that stomach bug" for the last few years

[Blainorama5]

16 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

He's had "that stomach bug" for the last few years

I hear there's a shot you can get for that.  😉

[r00tabaga]

Just now, BUFFALOBART said:

You've offered up nothing. Sorry about your friends..

Thank you. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

44 minutes ago, Realist said:

Has anyone checked on @Sherlock Holmes lately? I'm a little worried, he's been vomiting often for 3 straight days now.

 

Er, he may have been advised to seek treatment for his persistent emesis problems, and given a week's leave to pursue it.

[oldmanfan]

47 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I understand why young healthy people who have recovered from Covid may feel their natural immunity protects them well enough.  I agree that natural immunity has been under-discussed and to some extent under-studied.  There is some decent evidence that natural immunity + 1 shot provides a huge boost in preventing infection, thus protecting vulnerable people you may be in contact with (knowingly or unknowingly).  Back in the days when I was getting my childhood perforations (1960s) this was considered a Societal Duty. 

 

If it's really data-driven about risk, here is a recent comprehensive population studies of vaccine adverse events compared to covid complications. 

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

It includes 880,000 vaccinated and unvaccinated people.  It's pretty clear that adverse events, while they occur, are much lower in frequency than complications of Covid infection. 

Lymphadenopathy means temporarily swollen lymph nodes, usually near the vaccine site, and is a common vaccine side effect because, Working.

 

As far as VAERS, people misunderstand what VAERS is intended to do.  Doctors are encouraged to report ALL serious adverse events occurring within a couple weeks of vaccination, so that they can be investigated and patterns detected.  It's intended to detect rare adverse events by casting a wide net then investigating.  That's how the very rare blood clot events and cardiomyopathy events were detected, by using VAERS to find patterns of excess events.   VAERS works.  But somehow the same system that detects and investigates and reports rare but serious side effects occurring at low rate of 4 per 100,000 is supposed to be "concealing" thousands of vaccine-related deaths?  (I'm not saying this is what you're saying, but it's kind of implied)

 

People raise concerns that deaths are attributed to Covid where it wasn't a primary cause (example: an elder with end-stage congestive heart failure is admitted to hospital for heart problems, tests positive for Covid without symptoms, and dies.)  This has happened, almost certainly.   But then people insist that every death reported in VAERS must be due to the vaccine - even though the EXACT SAME THING HAPPENS (someone with a history of coronary artery blockage has a heart attack and dies 2 weeks after being vaccinated and it's reported as a death in VAERS.)   Sometimes it's the same people arguing both things.  I'm not saying it's you, but I've talked to literally dozens of people who have that inconsistent approach. 

 

  

Again, I'm not saying that's what you are doing here, just making a general point of what I've heard when I talk to folks.

 

And NO, we are not going to post the videos here.  PPP or elsewhere for that.  People make Youtube videos about everything these days, they prove nothing.

I was gong to respond to the VAERS stuff but you have done so brlliantly here.   I would add two things.  One is that the FDA and the CDC are required to do follow-up on every one of the patients submitted via VAERS, and when they do they find the vast, vast majority of deaths are not due to the vaccine.  Second, VAERS is voluntary and anyone can add some to the list, which some feel may include anti-vaxers who want to try and inflate numbers for their own purposes. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

Shout out to the mods for keeping this open. It proves that we CAN still debate sensitive subjects without subjecting others to name calling. Then again, Bills fans are a different breed 👏

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

There should only be one side (science).  Flame away 😜🤣

This a good point.  I understand how there are conservative lawyers and liberal lawyers.  The law is often gray and is open to interpretation.  I’m somewhat confused as to how we have conservative physicians and “other” physicians.  I understand that there is a difference in approach on issues such as abortion and right-to-die.  But I don’t for the life of me comprehend how we can have two different approaches to things like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.  The drugs either work for this purpose, or they don’t.  And this now relates to football because the disparity in approach has left us in a situation where the vaccinated may feel uncomfortable attending games with the unvaccinated under the “Week 1” rules, and the unvaccinated cannot attend under the “Week 3” rules.  It’s a shame that it has to be this way, and it never should have reached this point.  But here we are.  

Edited September 16, 2021 by SectionC3

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

This a good point.  I understand how there are conservative lawyers and liberal lawyers.  The law is often gray and is open to interpretation.  I’m somewhat confused as to how we have conservative physicians and “other” physicians.  I understand that there is a different in approach on issues such as abortion and right-to-die.  But I don’t for the life of me comprehend how we can have two different approaches to things like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.  The drugs either work for this purpose, or they don’t.  And this now relates to football because the disparity in approach has left us in a situation where the vaccinated may feel uncomfortable attending games with the unvaccinated under the “Week 1” rules, and the unvaccinated cannot attend under the “Week 3” rules.  It’s a shame that it has to be this way, and it never should have reached this point.  But here we are.  

There’s too many opportunist doctors out there spreading disinformation. You see it in some of these posts. They need to lock these people up.

 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Is this about Stadium policy or have we finally transitioned to my dad is better than your dad!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, Governor said:

There’s too many opportunist doctors out there spreading disinformation. You see it in some of these posts. They need to lock these people up.

 

That kind of gets back to the whole "how are there two sides to this?" conundrum.  There are people who claim to be following science, including doctors, on both sides.  So who do we lock up, and who gets to make that judgement call?

 

It's a legitimate issue: when there are doctors and scientists speaking to two sides of an issue: how can a reasonably intelligent person who tries to stay informed on current events make a reasonable determination which side is actually favored by the preponderance of the evidence and most likely to be shown correct?

 

I have ideas, but they're way beyond the scope of discussing vaccination and masks as they pertain to Stadium Entry.  And it's not as easy as one might think.

 

That's why I get Very Salty when people light into unvaccinated people with name-calling or suggest they should all suffer some gruesome fate.  I have gotten into enough depth on what conflicting information is out there, and talked to enough people about it.  While I personally believe it's actually pretty clear, I can see it's become a legitimately challenging issue for people of Goodwill to sort out.

 

24 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Is this about Stadium policy or have we finally transitioned to my dad is better than your dad!

 

Do you honestly feel this kind of post is helpful or contributory in any way?

 

42 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Shout out to the mods for keeping this open. It proves that we CAN still debate sensitive subjects without subjecting others to name calling. Then again, Bills fans are a different breed 👏

 

Heh.  You should see the "discard pile".

[North Buffalo]

5 hours ago, buffaloaggie said:

I can see why you'd get the shot, and would agree. You have underlying health concerns, so it makes sense for you to get the shot. There are fortunate people whose immune systems are just fine, after recovering from COVID. They likely have a sufficient amount of Antibodies in their system to fight off COVID. This is something else I struggle with. No one is really telling us what a good amount of antibodies is. Sure, it may vary, but the shots give us antibodies too. If someone has been protected  from having more than a handful of sick days in their working life, why should they inject something that they don't know what the long range effects are, and when they have already recovered from COVID ?

So this is my understanding from talking to docs who better understand the research and its implications... the RNA vax gives you better protection against variability or strains of the virus... while your antibodies do decrease over time... about 3% per Month you still have memory cells that know how to create T cells to fight an infection..  which is why people with break thru infections dont die... but they can still get infected... those that got infected and then got vaxed in very small studies so far have all been immune... it is not known how long that lasts.. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, r00tabaga said:

I agree with this. Dating someone in the medical field, I get ALL kinds of info. She's very open minded and I'll be the first to admit that I was probably more anti-vax in the beginning but now I've done tons of research and have corresponded on Twitter thru DM with real life epideologists who have dispelled ivermectin rumors and guided me to the shot I'll take when I absolutely HAVE to take it. Hint: it AIN'T J&J 👎

Unfortunately hamburgers and cash prizes and bills games aren't going to do it for me.

 

Yeah, there was a shop in our area offering free ice cream.  A bunch of us walked up there and held out our vax cards and left with our treat, because why not?

 

But FML!   People should NOT be making private health decisions that potentially impact society based on free ice creams and burgers. 

 

You're damn straight there.

 

Most of my "vaccine hesitant" relatives wound up getting J&J.   It's not my personal choice or what my immediate family got (that's Pfizer or Moderna, whatever we could get first) but it's a technically sound, safe vaccine.  I was just happy they got vaccinated!  What swayed them was the fact that some version or another of adenovirus vaccine has been in use since 1956 and that there was a fully-approved (in EU) adenovirus vector vaccine for Ebola. 

 

They felt it had a longer track record, and I can't argue with that.

 

There are several more conventional vaccines now available for Covid, and I had kind of wished the FDA would approve one of them for EUA to give a choice to people who are hesitant because of the relatively new technology. 

 

 

[ThurmanThomasEnglishMuffin]

Any points I have to make will probably be better served on the COVID-19 thread, and honestly I am here for football. I work at a Medical Center and University and feel those are more worthwhile conversations.

 

I thought this was about stadium entry, how to prove vax status, why, what to do if you are persona non grata now.