Highmark Stadium now requiring vaccination for entry

[Captain Caveman]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Here's a write-up about long-haulers:

 

https://www.healthing.ca/news/from-brain-fog-to-night-sweats-long-covid-has-over-200-symptoms-study-finds/wcm/4f96ecb8-b7bb-4650-8f4f-5a1522f79a0e

 

I don't think we will ever be immune.

 

Interesting... Because this type of disease, syndrome has had to be around a long time... Just not catchy?

 

No.  I swear I had something like this back in 1994. It started with pneumonia, that cleared with antibiotics but symptoms (high inflammation count, myalgia, breathing issues, night sweats, etc...) lingered for 18 months.   Tested me for everything under sun.  I was ready to see a Rheumatologist and said screw it... Burned itself out.  I chalked it up to an RA flare.  Backtrack 23 years earlier when I was 3 back in 1971... Was in hospital for three months. High fever, in traction for my joints... They thought I had meningitis... They ruled it as "Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis"... Back then they had me on aspirin therapy... Which is strange, because that's how they treat children w/Kawasaki (which was just being discovered at the time)... 

 

I have had high blood pressure my whole life, even as a kid... It wasn't medicated until after my bought in 1994. 

 

My strange medical past actually encouraged me to get the shot.  What ever is out there or has been out there, you will fair better getting the jab!  That's how I rationalized it! 

 

 

 

Lyme?  

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

Lyme?  

I thought of that.  It was before testing.  They never really explained what happened when I was three.  I had a 105 fever and couldn't even move... Mother rushed me to Children's and they iced me down.   I still remember that.  I had a cherry red tongue too... That's tell-take Kawasaki! Crazy... Nobody talked about it, medical profession was so different.  They gave me aspirin for years!  Baby Aspirin... Which is now called low dose because kids aren't really supposed to have it (Reyes)... I got better,  but always had muscle pains growing up... Then cleared up through adolescent and then bam, got whacked at 26 in 1994.  Started after a very cold January, here in Midwest. Went down to -20°... Then up to 50° and rain in early February... Caught pneumonia, they treated that... X-rays cleared up... But symptoms never did.   SED rate through roof, myalgia, malaise,  lost weight, pain and tingling in extremities,  etc... For 18 months! The tested me, scoped me in both directions (had blockage in lungs)... Never figured out what was wrong... Clean with everything.   NO TB, no AIDS LoL... Etc...

 

Lyme... But why all of a sudden in winter?  That's one thing I never tested for!  Possible dormant?  They didn't have test back then I think? I did have chicken pox... Bad, but that was after my stay in hospital @ 3. There was a Hong Kong Flu Pandemic from 1968-1970ish... 

[Captain Caveman]

Both my kids caught it (Lyme) this summer, my older didn't get the bullseye rash and so we didn't catch it until symptoms were pretty severe.  We've seen a few different doctors, and one recently said if there is any kind of mold in the environment that can be a big trigger for symptoms / effects.

[Moose]

Goodbye forever. I’ve been a Bills fan since the early 70s, but I am now done with the team and the entire league. Enjoy the medical tyranny to come.

[plenzmd1]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

This probably happened largely because of people's inability to wear masks in the stadium.

 

I have a question:

 

Why is it so darn hard for people to wear masks properly? I teach students all day and I don't have a problem wearing it over nose and mouth all day. Why is this such a ridiculous issue?

 

If the one you have is uncomfortable... buy a new one. 

 

We're in a Pandemic. No one loves it... but if you want some semblance of normalcy right now and the quickest way back to total normal, do 2 things without exception:

 

1) Wear your mask in public 

 

2) Get vaccinated 

I have been pretty much back to normal since March...as i think most people have.

 

1) tremendous disparity in the efficacy of masks debate...pretty roundly accepted cloth masks and gaiters are useless and prolly actually detrimental as folks think they actually do something and get a false sense of security

 

2) still a question about efficacy of surgical masks, as almost universally worn wrong  to start to with, and questions remain whether they stop the aerosols that actually make Covid so contagious as opposed to droplets.

 

3) you state you wear the mask properly all day...I assume that means you are wearing an N-95 mask, there are zero gaps at the side, the masks is cinched up tight and you leave after 8 hours of teaching with physical marks on your face and ears as that is how tight the mask needs to be to be effective.

 

People want simple answers all the time, they want to think "just do this and it goes away"...its obviously deeper than that.

 

India had less than 10 % vaxed when this drop occurred , still has under 15% mask usage, live in considerably denser conditions than we do in the US, and yet we have this graph? Why..no clue. I do know however the dramatic drop in cases was not due to 80% of population being vaxed or widespread use of masks. Also remember this is the home of the Delta variant...these are delta numbers

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/10/covid-19-in-india-vaccine-shortages-are-leading-to-discrimination-in-access/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by plenzmd1

[oldmanfan]

50 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I have been pretty much back to normal since March...as i think most people have.

 

1) tremendous disparity in the efficacy of masks debate...pretty roundly accepted cloth masks and gaiters are useless and prolly actually detrimental as folks think they actually do something and get a false sense of security

 

2) still a question about efficacy of surgical masks, as almost universally worn wrong  to start to with, and questions remain whether they stop the aerosols that actually make Covid so contagious as opposed to droplets.

 

3) you state you wear the mask properly all day...I assume that means you are wearing an N-95 mask, there are zero gaps at the side, the masks is cinched up tight and you leave after 8 hours of teaching with physical marks on your face and ears as that is how tight the mask needs to be to be effective.

 

People want simple answers all the time, they want to think "just do this and it goes away"...its obviously deeper than that.

 

India had less than 10 % vaxed when this drop occurred , still has under 15% mask usage, live in considerably denser conditions than we do in the US, and yet we have this graph? Why..no clue. I do know however the dramatic drop in cases was not due to 80% of population being vaxed or widespread use of masks. Also remember this is the home of the Delta variant...these are delta numbers

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/10/covid-19-in-india-vaccine-shortages-are-leading-to-discrimination-in-access/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have done literature searches on Medline for articles on masks and Coivd.  There are around 2500 references.  Thus far I have looked through a couple hundred and found about 20 articles that are either observational studies, laboratory studies, or meta-analyses on the topic.  Over 90%of these studies indicate a beneficial effect of masks to prevent spread, with effectiveness varying with the type of masks.  While cloth masks for example are less effective than N-95, they still demonstrate a reduction in transmission of the droplets and aerosols responsible for spread.  They help mitigate, and it seems clear that mitigate is not a word understood by those anti-mask or anti-vax.  You are correct though that they could be worn more carefully, but that is cause for more education, not abandonment.

 

When you make claims such as you've done above that are inaccurate, it hurts the ability to fight this pandemic.  As for the India data, there is something to be learned there.  My first guess would be that the delta variant has burned through the population quickly, and as the virus burns through the population at the back end you will see decreased infection rate.  But we will have to see as the data is analyzed further what can be learned.

 

 

[buffaloaggie]

1 minute ago, nucci said:

I don't listen to politicians. My Dr said to get the shot so I did. I also take other medications for BP and Cholesterol......even though I don't know what's in them because my Dr said to and I trust him. He's helped keep me alive this long

I can see why you'd get the shot, and would agree. You have underlying health concerns, so it makes sense for you to get the shot. There are fortunate people whose immune systems are just fine, after recovering from COVID. They likely have a sufficient amount of Antibodies in their system to fight off COVID. This is something else I struggle with. No one is really telling us what a good amount of antibodies is. Sure, it may vary, but the shots give us antibodies too. If someone has been protected  from having more than a handful of sick days in their working life, why should they inject something that they don't know what the long range effects are, and when they have already recovered from COVID ?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Today I learned:

 

 My initial reaction was "Silver isn't magnetic, if you're eating high class.  Stainless steel isn't magnetic if you're eating ordinary Joe class.  So WTF are these people using to eat their goulash?"

 

Being an experimentalist, I took the strongest magnet I could grab quickly, carried it to the silverware drawer, and pulled out a fork.

I learned my stainless steel flatware is, indeed, magnetic.

 

Still doesn't stick to my chest, though.

 

 

 

Actually there are are few grades of stainless steel that are magnetic mostly in the "400" series, one of the toughest 440 is only magnetic after hardening.  Think most flatware is made from 13/0 which is a cheap variety with zero nickel content.  It appears most stainless's with low to no nickel content are the magnetic ones and are somewhat close to being a plain steel.  Think some flatware is even made from plain steel with a chrome plating or EN plating or something over it.

 

PS, the people in the video I saw,pretty certain they were NOT eating high class!

[oldmanfan]

2 minutes ago, buffaloaggie said:

I can see why you'd get the shot, and would agree. You have underlying health concerns, so it makes sense for you to get the shot. There are fortunate people whose immune systems are just fine, after recovering from COVID. They likely have a sufficient amount of Antibodies in their system to fight off COVID. This is something else I struggle with. No one is really telling us what a good amount of antibodies is. Sure, it may vary, but the shots give us antibodies too. If someone has been protected  from having more than a handful of sick days in their working life, why should they inject something that they don't know what the long range effects are, and when they have already recovered from COVID ?

Let's talk about long range effects here.  The mRNA viruses are the mRNA, some salts and some lipids that help with solubility.  What basic cell biology tells us is that, once the mRNA in the vaccine is read and the spike protein transcribed, the mRNA is rapidly degraded in the cell.  The other molecules in the vaccine are naturally occurring.  There is nothing from the chemical nature of the vaccine to suggest any long range effect should occur.  In addition, the history of vaccines tells us that long term side effects are extraordinarily rare, and if seen they are picked up within weeks of vaccination, not years later.  In fact, with the Covid vaccines being around for months now, we have seen a very small incidence of the myocarditis and blood clot side effects (on the order 0f 0.0002%).  

 

When you ask why folks should get vaaccinated , it's so you don't get sick and die.  And because it will help all of us not get sick and die.  One of the most troubling, unfortunate things with this pandemic is that it has shown the striking indifference of people to their fellow man.   

14 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I have done literature searches on Medline for articles on masks and Coivd.  There are around 2500 references.  Thus far I have looked through a couple hundred and found about 20 articles that are either observational studies, laboratory studies, or meta-analyses on the topic.  Over 90%of these studies indicate a beneficial effect of masks to prevent spread, with effectiveness varying with the type of masks.  While cloth masks for example are less effective than N-95, they still demonstrate a reduction in transmission of the droplets and aerosols responsible for spread.  They help mitigate, and it seems clear that mitigate is not a word understood by those anti-mask or anti-vax.  You are correct though that they could be worn more carefully, but that is cause for more education, not abandonment.

 

When you make claims such as you've done above that are inaccurate, it hurts the ability to fight this pandemic.  As for the India data, there is something to be learned there.  My first guess would be that the delta variant has burned through the population quickly, and as the virus burns through the population at the back end you will see decreased infection rate.  But we will have to see as the data is analyzed further what can be learned.

 

 

So I see an eyeroll to my post.  Why is science so scary to some folks here?

[SCBills]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

One of the most troubling, unfortunate things with this pandemic is that it has shown the striking indifference of people to their fellow man.   

 

Both sides of this debate will read your statement as an indictment of the other side. 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Let's talk about long range effects here.  The mRNA viruses are the mRNA, some salts and some lipids that help with solubility.  What basic cell biology tells us is that, once the mRNA in the vaccine is read and the spike protein transcribed, the mRNA is rapidly degraded in the cell.  The other molecules in the vaccine are naturally occurring.  There is nothing from the chemical nature of the vaccine to suggest any long range effect should occur.  In addition, the history of vaccines tells us that long term side effects are extraordinarily rare, and if seen they are picked up within weeks of vaccination, not years later.  In fact, with the Covid vaccines being around for months now, we have seen a very small incidence of the myocarditis and blood clot side effects (on the order 0f 0.0002%).  

 

When you ask why folks should get vaaccinated , it's so you don't get sick and die.  And because it will help all of us not get sick and die.  One of the most troubling, unfortunate things with this pandemic is that it has shown the striking indifference of people to their fellow man.   

 

The science doesn't matter. All the simple explanation don't matter. The bottom line is "You can't tell me what to do". And no amount of explanation will ever overcome that.

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, Moose said:

Goodbye forever. I’ve been a Bills fan since the early 70s, but I am now done with the team and the entire league. Enjoy the medical tyranny to come.

Gonna share text from a fb post of a pregnant nurse friend in charlotte 

 

absolutely. Much younger people. And the vaccinated that are sick are MUCH older. Last time it didn’t hit pregnant woman as hard, this time it’s awful!

 

most of our patients aren’t vaccinated, so I’m not sure. We’ve had a few half vaccinated and a few vaccinated but the vaccinated are well over 70 and thankfully not intubated. It’s hard to tell people “what to do”. Treatment protocol is vitamin c, d3, thiamine, and zinc- for all Covid positive patients. So, that Leads you to believe it’s an immune targeting virus- but then we see so many families(aunts, sisters, not living together) admitted and vented- and it makes you wonder if it has a genetic component? I’m a strong believer in doing what you feel is best. For me, getting vaccinated was very necessary, being pregnant and a Covid nurse, and watching pregnant mamas getting vented every day, I couldn’t put myself in that position.

 

we had two die on Monday night and the poor wife didn’t even make it in time to say bye  Stay safe friend!

 

 we have 22 vented in PACU with crnas taking care of them because we’re out of staff. We’re supposed to be opening our MICU and putting vented patients there but, again, we don’t have staffing. We’ve never gotten to divert, it just keeps building up

 

 

 

So keep thinking this is medically tyrnanny while people who actually are living with this ***** and know what's going on are dealing with this.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, SCBills said:

 

Both sides of this debate will read your statement as an indictment of the other side. 

We are in a public health crisis.  Public as in all of us.  We need to help each other out, and the best way to do that is for all of us to get vaccinated and deprive the virus hosts for it to propogate.  This is basic virology.  

 

Watching the current situation, after just witnessing all the memorials for 9/11 and how the country came together, infuriates me.

[Bills fan since 87]

1 hour ago, r00tabaga said:

Mafia means Family 😆😆😆😆

 

Let's show an older member of this community (and good chance a vet) some shade. The hate within this fanbase is thru the roof RN. So we stopped doing charities. Are we done with charities now??? Asking for a friend.

 

What? Is this sarcasm? If you quit on the Bills the family quits on you.

[r00tabaga]

44 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

Gonna share text from a fb post of a pregnant nurse friend in charlotte 

 

absolutely. Much younger people. And the vaccinated that are sick are MUCH older. Last time it didn’t hit pregnant woman as hard, this time it’s awful!

 

most of our patients aren’t vaccinated, so I’m not sure. We’ve had a few half vaccinated and a few vaccinated but the vaccinated are well over 70 and thankfully not intubated. It’s hard to tell people “what to do”. Treatment protocol is vitamin c, d3, thiamine, and zinc- for all Covid positive patients. So, that Leads you to believe it’s an immune targeting virus- but then we see so many families(aunts, sisters, not living together) admitted and vented- and it makes you wonder if it has a genetic component? I’m a strong believer in doing what you feel is best. For me, getting vaccinated was very necessary, being pregnant and a Covid nurse, and watching pregnant mamas getting vented every day, I couldn’t put myself in that position.

 

we had two die on Monday night and the poor wife didn’t even make it in time to say bye  Stay safe friend!

 

 we have 22 vented in PACU with crnas taking care of them because we’re out of staff. We’re supposed to be opening our MICU and putting vented patients there but, again, we don’t have staffing. We’ve never gotten to divert, it just keeps building up

 

 

 

So keep thinking this is medically tyrnanny while people who actually are living with this ***** and know what's going on are dealing with this.

And I can show you videos of the adverse effects. We could do this all day. Look at VAERS data if you're curious why younger healthier people who have already had covid are leery of the shot.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

I have been pretty much back to normal since March...as i think most people have.

 

1) tremendous disparity in the efficacy of masks debate...pretty roundly accepted cloth masks and gaiters are useless and prolly actually detrimental as folks think they actually do something and get a false sense of security

 

2) still a question about efficacy of surgical masks, as almost universally worn wrong  to start to with, and questions remain whether they stop the aerosols that actually make Covid so contagious as opposed to droplets.

 

3) you state you wear the mask properly all day...I assume that means you are wearing an N-95 mask, there are zero gaps at the side, the masks is cinched up tight and you leave after 8 hours of teaching with physical marks on your face and ears as that is how tight the mask needs to be to be effective.

 

People want simple answers all the time, they want to think "just do this and it goes away"...its obviously deeper than that.

 

India had less than 10 % vaxed when this drop occurred , still has under 15% mask usage, live in considerably denser conditions than we do in the US, and yet we have this graph? Why..no clue. I do know however the dramatic drop in cases was not due to 80% of population being vaxed or widespread use of masks. Also remember this is the home of the Delta variant...these are delta numbers

 

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/10/covid-19-in-india-vaccine-shortages-are-leading-to-discrimination-in-access/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gaiters useless, but I don't agree at all that it's "roundly accepted" cloth masks or surgical masks are useless.

 

Here is a link to a google doc assembled by Missouri's Facebook "data guy" as part of the ongoing debate here about requiring masks in schools:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19PY5mBcUYFcK5OKCJDOhKP2K1uhxjrp-VgEkzNDq8Hs/edit?fbclid=IwAR18juqWtEjV-Gm_us7vSkpUcR0yrWFCxt8H_lD_bgN5-cFzvv2wUZwmH_s#gid=0

It contains links to 21 studies including comparisons of the efficacy of different mask types.

 

There is much more data than that....for example, Cornell University required cloth or surgical masks to be worn in classrooms and "congested areas" last year, with high compliance (students faced strong discipline for failing to comply with their rules, and no tuition refund if suspended).  I wish they'd publish their data, because there are a lot of learnings there about transmission (sneak peak: no in-classroom transmission with masks, 2x/week testing of all and assigned seats)

 

As far as "India has it under control with low vaccination" from another post, there are more clues than you imply.  In short, epidemiologists pretty much acknowledge that a whole population-based SIR model is just plain wrong, even in the age of jet travel.  People have their social networks of families and friends, connected by school and public events they attend (usually in a close geographic area).   When infection takes hold in one of those networks, it will spread within that network pretty much on a SIR model, then subside - until the next network is entered or a new variant takes hold.  Modi was publicly gloating about how India had it all under control without vaccines back in Jan/Feb. then "hey y'all watch this!"

 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

 

Both sides of this debate will read your statement as an indictment of the other side. 

There should only be one side (science).  Flame away 😜🤣

Edited September 16, 2021 by Billsfan1972

[blitzboy54]

25 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

And I can show you videos of the adverse effects. We could do this all day. Look at VAERS data if you're curious why younger healthier people who have already had covid are leery of the shot.

 

Imagine being shown actual real data and still thinking you know better. 

[r00tabaga]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

There should only be one side (science).  Flame away 😜🤣

Or maybe we should be modeling ourselves after India right now and not Israel, the most vaccinated country on earth.

Going to a Bills game in person would be nice but it's obviously not even in my top 10 of most important things in my life right now.

 

Go BILLS

[aristocrat]

25 minutes ago, r00tabaga said:

And I can show you videos of the adverse effects. We could do this all day. Look at VAERS data if you're curious why younger healthier people who have already had covid are leery of the shot.

 

Why don't you come out to Eugene and do a round with my gf in the icu which is at capacity?   97 percent patients unvaxxed.  National guard on hand to help cause of the issues.  That vers study is horseshit.