Highmark Stadium now requiring vaccination for entry

[The Firebaugh Kid]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, give it a rest.  Is natural immunity important, sure it is.  No one is saying you can't speak of it.  But there is no definitive evidence that people with "natural immunity" and a negative recent antigen test are "the safest people to be around"., That's your personal Beaten Horse, and you're not discussing it - you're treating it as unquestionable dogma.

 

They clearly could have asked for a vaccine card or a negative test.  I don't know why they didn't.  Maybe they looked at fan demographics and decided they would overload the RT-PCR testing capacity of WNY.  Maybe they looked at the logistics of asking ushers to review documented negative tests and decided it was a nightmare.  Maybe they had a modeling team look at the impact of the false negative rate of antigen tests and said "Oh Hell Noes".

 

You don't know why they didn't either, but you're strongly asserting it's not motivated by public health, again, as unquestionable dogma.

 

Then you get into all sorts of other stuff.  It doesn't belong here.  Give it a rest.

 

 

Allow me to speak for the natural immunity crowd as well...we are the forgotten, judged, singled out, left out, science trusting group that for whatever reason went through hell, yet has zero to show for it other than being treated exactly like the unvaccinated. It's very strange, tbh. 

 

[r00tabaga]

3 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Allow me to speak for the natural immunity crowd as well...we are the forgotten, judged, singled out, left out, science trusting group that for whatever reason went through hell, yet has zero to show for it other than being treated exactly like the unvaccinated. It's very strange, tbh. 

 

I've had C19 as well and workout regularly, I'm young & not obese. There are many places around New York where you can get a PCR test I got mine at rite aid. A positive test would have sufficed. Unfortunately it's all politics.

There is no medical or epidemiological justification for the covid passport, it is only intended to pressure the unvaccinated to vaccinate.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

42 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think anyone should be responsible to pay for/arrange testing aside from the unvaccinated fan.   
 

We have plenty of testing available down south where the numbers are higher, and many event centers inside GA/SC cities have covid test/vax requirements.   No issues in getting one as long as you plan ahead and schedule a rapid test a few days out. 
 

Masks are not necessary when outside and everyone is vaxxed or has a negative test.. just another example of authority disciplining their people and then blaming it on other people.  
 

It’s not just about this - it’s about the past 18 months.. it’s about the next 18 months.  I don’t expect people who are ok with all this government control to understand that sentiment.   While that point isn’t directly Highmark/Vax Mandate related, it is tangentially, given they keep pushing and pushing and it doesn’t seem like it will stop until we, collectively, stop taking it. 

 

Enough.  This is a football forum.  This is a thread where the normal rules have been slackened to discuss a new policy at the stadium that directly affects fans and involves covid and vaccination.  The first sentence of your post was already answered reasonably with info from PSE.

 

If your interest is discussing slippery-slope arguments, government control, government overreach, so on and so forth, take it to PPP or (as one guy said above) Twitter where Anything Goes.  Rachel Bush will  💓 you.

 

Everyone else, please listen up - we are trying to allow all discussion that is reasonably pertinent to the new Highmark Stadium entry requirements but going on and on for multiple posts about government overreach and control over the last 18 months and the hypothetical next 18 months is broadening the scope way too far and is NOT contributing positively to the goal of allowing reasonable discussion.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 minutes ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

Allow me to speak for the natural immunity crowd as well...we are the forgotten, judged, singled out, left out, science trusting group that for whatever reason went through hell, yet has zero to show for it other than being treated exactly like the unvaccinated. It's very strange, tbh.

 

It's a valid point that natural immunity has deserved more study than it has received.  On the other hand, there is some reasonable evidence that one shot will boost natural immunity to greater heights, and no evidence that it will cause any harms.

 

If you're "science trusting", what holds you back?

[Returntoglory]

Just now, MasterStrategist said:

And are you interacting with the players?

 

Must be alot of Lambeau leaps

There was fan interaction at the wall last game. 

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Vaccine Card or Negative Test

 

Its that simple.  
 

The vast majority of event centers in this country that have a covid policy, have this one.   
 

Negating the second option leads to justifiable questioning of why only the first.  

 

First - Negative test has nothing to do with immunity - so it is not an immunity test.

 

Having a negative test is a viable option at some places, but more and more places are not considering it viable. 
 

Having a fully vaccinated groups makes it easy to set and enforce the rules as the entire stadium is on equal footing.  They can then set masking rules and be consistent.
 

An unvaccinated person with a negative test - still would be required to mask-up when inside any parts of the stadium and that becomes unenforceable - you wouldn’t know the status - so how do you enforce the rules.

 

You act like they are excluding a specific group, but the truth is - they gave a mix vaccinated crowd a chance last week and found it impossible.  This change allows them based upon State vaccine rules to treat everyone the same and not have to guess is this person unvaccinated and a negative test and must be masked or a vaccinated person that can be unmasked.

 

It is really simple and it makes 100% sense and I applaud them for making this a simple and enforceable fix.

 

 

 

 

[jlgarsh]

On 9/14/2021 at 7:58 PM, Logic said:

A passport is a good bit sturdier than a vaccine card.

It's much easier to accidentally rip, stain, or otherwise destroy a vaccine card than it is a passport.

Again, I'm not saying that it's an insurmountable task to bring a vaccine card. I support the new rule. I'm just saying that it's a bit more of an inconvenience for non NYS residents. That's all. I wouldn't think much of it if vaccine cards were wallet-sized, laminated, sturdy. The fact that they're an awkward size and don't really fit in a wallet just make them a bit odd to carry into something like a football game.
 

When I traveled, I put the vaccine card in the holder with my passport. Two birds with one stone. Made it easy at the airport

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[Rochesterfan]

On 9/15/2021 at 4:36 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Whether or not it is (and that reads like one of those "truth but not whole truth" things to me), it doesn't apply to the studies I mentioned and which were being dismissed as "I don't believe the CDC" by a guy here.  One of them was a large study of healthcare workers (vaccinated and unvaccinated) who have been followed since January.  They agree to be tested every week.  All positive test results were included as cases.  It's quite sterling work.

 

 

This is the pre-print, unreviewed study I alluded to earlier when I said I have questions about it.  They had health records on 2.5 MILLION people.  They pulled a subset of 18,000 matched vaccinated and unvaccinated people from that 2.5 million person dataset.  That's 1.4%.  Population studies like this are "outside my lane", but if I went to my former boss and told him I'd selected a 1.4% subset of my data to analyze he'd have told me to "GTFO and come back with the full dataset".  I think it raises questions about whether, in trying to match the reference and experiment group and limiting the dataset so severely, they inadvertently introduced other bias factors they weren't aware of.  Maybe it's well done, like I said it's a bit outside my lane.  So Imma wait until that one gets peer-reviewed and published, especially as it's out-of-sync with several reasonably sized studies in US, UK, and Europe which show good natural immunity slotting in with vaccine-induced immunity (better than some, not as good as others).

 

Point is, in expressing hesitance about that study, I can give reasons, I'm not just "I don't believe data from Israel" or something.

 

Not a fan of antibody tests for several reasons.  Natural immunity is important, no doubt, and deserves consideration, but show me a positive RT-PCR test. 

 

I would have liked to see negative test results within 48 hrs accepted myself, but I don't know the demographics of vaccinated vs unvaccinated ticket holders.  I can see the potential for real logistical issues and a burden on WNY testing capacity or for a high false negative rate, depending upon test choice. 

 

It Is What It is.

 

 

@Hapless Bills Fan - I get the negative test request, but there are viable reasons why that is not offered.  
 

Right now in NYS - unvaccinated individuals are supposed to be masked when indoors in communal areas - so like grocery markets, shopping, etc.  Vaccinated individuals are allowed to enter those spaces unmasked.  
 

For me I mask-up everywhere I go because if people are not wearing a mask - you have no way of knowing are the vaccinated and following the rules or unvaccinated and not following - it is all on your honor and I don’t really trust my fellow neighbors to be fully honest at this point.

 

In regards to the stadium - if we follow that - and maybe they won’t- this mandate of 100% vaccinated people - allows them to eliminate masking and make it easy to enforce as everyone is 100 vaccinated.  
 

If you allow testing of people - even same day testing - but even a percentage of those fans are unvaccinated- then you have unvaccinated fans that should be required to mask up in certain “indoor” spaces and now you return to the Bills having to try to enforce something that was proven to be unenforceable in practice.

 

I think making it 100% vaccinated makes it much easier and more consistent for enforcement.  If there was a way to show immunity - such as using the antibody tests that are available - I would 100% be on board with using those results to gain entry once immunity levels of the antibody have been established- then vaccinated or not - they have all shown to have antibodies and should be ok.

 

Until that becomes widely available- 100% vaccinated is the best way to go to prevent having unenforceable rules that must be attempted.  
 

 

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

First - Negative test has nothing to do with immunity - so it is not an immunity test.

 

Having a negative test is a viable option at some places, but more and more places are not considering it viable. 
 

Having a fully vaccinated groups makes it easy to set and enforce the rules as the entire stadium is on equal footing.  They can then set masking rules and be consistent.
 

An unvaccinated person with a negative test - still would be required to mask-up when inside any parts of the stadium and that becomes unenforceable - you wouldn’t know the status - so how do you enforce the rules.

 

You act like they are excluding a specific group, but the truth is - they gave a mix vaccinated crowd a chance last week and found it impossible.  This change allows them based upon State vaccine rules to treat everyone the same and not have to guess is this person unvaccinated and a negative test and must be masked or a vaccinated person that can be unmasked.

 

It is really simple and it makes 100% sense and I applaud them for making this a simple and enforceable fix.

 

 

 

 

Im not getting into this any longer as I’ve made my points and strongly disagree with you on most everything you say - but, for real, I need to stop seeing you in my notifications every time I check this website.   It’s ok to not react to everything I say.  I know you think I’m sexy but my goodness. 

[JustAnotherBillsFan]

First post here. Follow the group regularly but never posted.  Feel provoked to post after having been called selfish one time too many :).

 

I have immunity (covid with long haul symptoms). I do not need the shot. Evidence exists of long term tcell immunity. Evidence exists that I am at higher risk of having problems if I do take the shot. The link I attached is long but is from a reputable source and worth the read IMO.

 

The only benefit of me taking the shot is "super immunity".  I and others with natural immunity are no more selfish than anyone who has been vaccinated and not gone on to get covid in order to achieve similar super immunity status.

 

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2101

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

@Hapless Bills Fan - I get the negative test request, but there are viable reasons why that is not offered.  
 

Right now in NYS - unvaccinated individuals are supposed to be masked when indoors in communal areas - so like grocery markets, shopping, etc.  Unvaccinated individuals are allowed to enter those spaces unmasked.  
 

For me I mask-up everywhere I go because if people are not wearing a mask - you have no way of knowing are the vaccinated and following the rules or unvaccinated and not following - it is all on your honor and I don’t really trust my fellow neighbors to be fully honest at this point.

 

In regards to the stadium - if we follow that - and maybe they won’t- this mandate of 100% vaccinated people - allows them to eliminate masking and make it easy to enforce as everyone is 100 vaccinated.  
 

If you allow testing of people - even same day testing - but even a percentage of those fans are unvaccinated- then you have unvaccinated fans that should be required to mask up in certain “indoor” spaces and now you return to the Bills having to try to enforce something that was proven to be unenforceable in practice.

 

I think making it 100% vaccinated makes it much easier and more consistent for enforcement.  If there was a way to show immunity - such as using the antibody tests that are available - I would 100% be on board with using those results to gain entry once immunity levels of the antibody have been established- then vaccinated or not - they have all shown to have antibodies and should be ok.

 

Until that becomes widely available- 100% vaccinated is the best way to go to prevent having unenforceable rules that must be attempted. 

 

What you're saying above makes perfect sense and explains pretty clearly why the "negative test results" option wasn't used.  I was unaware of the current NYS policies on masking.  Masking has been "out of style" in MO for a while now, except probably among vaccinated people who feel as you describe.

 

So last Sunday they did the experiment on asking fans to mask, and the fans "voted with their faces". 

 

So clearly saying "welcome unvaccinated person with a negative test, please follow NYS guidelines and mask indoors" would be a non-starter.

 

Thanks for the very clear explanation.

[JaCrispy]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's a valid point that natural immunity has deserved more study than it has received.  On the other hand, there is some reasonable evidence that one shot will boost natural immunity to greater heights, and no evidence that it will cause any harms.

 

If you're "science trusting", what holds you back?

There are reports, that even without the shot, the naturally immune have greater protection...the vaccinated are more likely to get reinfected, whereas the naturally immune are less likely to be reinfected...if that’s the case, we should have greater privilege than the vaccinated imo...

 

I think the real issue is that the pharmaceutical companies can’t make money off the naturally immune, and it really throws a wrench into the agenda of getting everyone vaccinated...😉

Edited September 16, 2021 by JaCrispy

[Solomon Grundy]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I wish they’d focus on their craft, football!! A crucial dropped pass and a blocked punt potentially loses football games. 

[jlgarsh]

20 hours ago, SCBills said:

Same here.  My parents are vaxxed and I’m glad they are.  Was actually a bit taken back this weekend when they said they probably won’t get boosters unless forced.. My mom is a neurologist at a major hospital and sees plenty of this stuff in person every day.  
 

Im in my 30’s.  Work out 5-6 days a week. Take multi-vitamins and Super-C (zinc & vit D) every day.  Recently had covid a few weeks ago… and it sucked, definitely felt like a moderate flu with bizarre chest muscle pains for me.  I was sick for about 10 days but only “sick” sick for about 3 of the 10 - however I typically kick flu’s/colds in a couple days without ever feeling like I need to stay home and rest. 

 

I don’t trust anything I’m being told re: vaccination - the politicization, division and refusal to acknowledge natural immunity don’t sit well with me. Stunts like Erie County/Highmark Stadium don’t do much to help my skepticism.  Especially now that I don’t feel I have any reason to get vaxxed, having just had it. 
 

That said, I’m glad it’s available for those who want it.  It’s certainly an amazing option for people at high risk. 

 

My friend is 34, and a farmer in Illinois. One of his workers came to work feeling a bit off, and infected a bunch of people. His wife didn't get covid (she's vaccinated), but he and his dad are both in the ICU right now hoping to see their family again, wishing they got the shot. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I don’t know, after their week one performance I’m not a fan of any of this.

[TheyCallMeAndy]

12 minutes ago, jlgarsh said:

My friend is 34, and a farmer in Illinois. One of his workers came to work feeling a bit off, and infected a bunch of people. His wife didn't get covid (she's vaccinated), but he and his dad are both in the ICU right now hoping to see their family again, wishing they got the shot. 

I tested positive yesterday, while I’m not 100% sold on the vax, I’m thankful I got it. I feel like this would be a different monster otherwise. So far everyone else in my family has tested negative.

 

So far (day 3) I just have mild symptoms, and I’m so incredibly thankful for that.

[DasNootz]

58 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

@Hapless Bills Fan - I get the negative test request, but there are viable reasons why that is not offered.  
 

Right now in NYS - unvaccinated individuals are supposed to be masked when indoors in communal areas - so like grocery markets, shopping, etc.  Unvaccinated individuals are allowed to enter those spaces unmasked.  
 

For me I mask-up everywhere I go because if people are not wearing a mask - you have no way of knowing are the vaccinated and following the rules or unvaccinated and not following - it is all on your honor and I don’t really trust my fellow neighbors to be fully honest at this point.

 

In regards to the stadium - if we follow that - and maybe they won’t- this mandate of 100% vaccinated people - allows them to eliminate masking and make it easy to enforce as everyone is 100 vaccinated.  
 

If you allow testing of people - even same day testing - but even a percentage of those fans are unvaccinated- then you have unvaccinated fans that should be required to mask up in certain “indoor” spaces and now you return to the Bills having to try to enforce something that was proven to be unenforceable in practice.

 

I think making it 100% vaccinated makes it much easier and more consistent for enforcement.  If there was a way to show immunity - such as using the antibody tests that are available - I would 100% be on board with using those results to gain entry once immunity levels of the antibody have been established- then vaccinated or not - they have all shown to have antibodies and should be ok.

 

Until that becomes widely available- 100% vaccinated is the best way to go to prevent having unenforceable rules that must be attempted.  
 

 

What’s the least intrusive option - require everyone to wear a mask and enforce it without exception OR require everyone to be vaccinated, mask are optional and no gameday enforcement is necessary?

 

Airlines have successfully gone with the second option, but I don’t know how feasible it is in a stadium setting especially when people can buy food and drink at will. 
 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

There are reports, that even without the shot, the naturally immune have greater protection...the vaccinated are more likely to get reinfected, whereas the naturally immune are less likely to be reinfected...if that’s the case, we should have greater privilege than the vaccinated imo...

 

I think the real issue is that the pharmaceutical companies can’t make money off the naturally immune...😉

 

That last is a common belief, especially beloved by some conspiracy theorists (to be clear, I'm not saying you are a conspiracy theorist). 

 

The problem with natural immunity is that to get there, you have to catch and recover from Covid, which doesn't work out so well for some.  There is a recent peer reviewed, published study in New England Journal of Medicine of 880,000 people per arm (out of 4.7M person dataset, ~37%) comparing adverse events from the Covid vaccine to complications from natural infection.  It's unambiguous that natural infection has far more complications.

 

The preponderance of evidence is people with natural immunity have very good protection against reinfection.  The duration is unclear, but then so is the duration of protection from the vaccines.  There is a study of 16,000 people per arm out of a database of 2.5 million people on a preprint server.  It asserts that those who were infected by Covid have actually significantly better protection, as you say but 1) I am concerned about the 1.4% sample size 2) as of yet, it is not peer-reviewed or published. 

 

A problem, as @Rochesterfan points out, is that determining who has immunity is a bit of an unsolved problem at present. 

 

I would not be a fan of "privileging" people by degrees of immunity.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

21 hours ago, SCBills said:

Same here.  My parents are vaxxed and I’m glad they are.  Was actually a bit taken back this weekend when they said they probably won’t get boosters unless forced.. My mom is a neurologist at a major hospital and sees plenty of this stuff in person every day.  
 

Im in my 30’s.  Work out 5-6 days a week. Take multi-vitamins and Super-C (zinc & vit D) every day.  Recently had covid a few weeks ago… and it sucked, definitely felt like a moderate flu with bizarre chest muscle pains for me.  I was sick for about 10 days but only “sick” sick for about 3 of the 10 - however I typically kick flu’s/colds in a couple days without ever feeling like I need to stay home and rest. 

 

I don’t trust anything I’m being told re: vaccination - the politicization, division and refusal to acknowledge natural immunity don’t sit well with me. Stunts like Erie County/Highmark Stadium don’t do much to help my skepticism.  Especially now that I don’t feel I have any reason to get vaxxed, having just had it. 
 

That said, I’m glad it’s available for those who want it.  It’s certainly an amazing option for people at high risk. 

 

Is there any data stating how long natural immunity lasts?