Highmark Stadium now requiring vaccination for entry

[Jauronimo]

43 minutes ago, SCBills said:

The safest people who could possibly go to the stadium are those with natural immunity who are testing negative within 72 hours of the event. 
 

They are not allowed in the stadium under the guise of safety.  
 

This is a very common policy of many event centers around the country.  Vax or Negative Test. 
 

That is why I question the logic of this move given how it’s being sold to the public. 
 

I believe it’s healthy to question people in power.  Then come to the conclusion that I either agree or disagree with them.  
 

When it comes to Erie/Highmark, my conclusion is that this is not about stadium safety, but about community safety.   I believe they are using the government levers of power to cudgel people into getting the vaccine or miss out on what they know is a passion of many in the community.  
 

They won’t say the silent part out loud, and therefore the messaging is illogical. 
 

I won’t say anymore on this after this post, but I believe all the evidence and statements I’ve seen regarding this issue point to this conclusion.  
 

I think it’s an abuse of power, but one they are legally able to do.  
 

I would hope they’ll do the right thing and allow those who ask for refunds to be refunded given this new policy.  
 

For everyone else, enjoy the game, and hope that eventually none of this never ending overreach of the past 18 months comes for things you care about.  

 

This supposed over reach happened in this country over a century ago and has been upheld by the Supreme Court many times. 

 

It was never your right to be an aspiring plague rat without consequence.  Get with the program already.

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, SDS said:

 

"those with natural immunity". I'm sorry that I read what is written. How do you plan to test people for "natural immunity"? What system is in place to track this? Are $15/hr ticket scanners going to adjudicate what is real and what is not real evidence of natural immunity?

 

I'm sorry I read what you write. Words mean things.

Vaccine Card or Negative Test

 

Its that simple.  
 

The vast majority of event centers in this country that have a covid policy, have this one.   
 

Negating the second option leads to justifiable questioning of why only the first.  

[SDS]

Just now, SCBills said:

Vaccine Card or Negative Test

 

Its that simple.  
 

The vast majority of event centers in this country that have a covid policy, have this one.   
 

Negating the second option leads to justifiable questioning of why only the first.  

and yet you spent the day discussing natural immunity with a test. You kept discussing how it’s the safest of all options and then when called out on it regarding practicality, you change your entire assertion. 🤔

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Vaccine Card or Negative Test

 

Its that simple.  
 

The vast majority of event centers in this country that have a covid policy, have this one.   
 

Negating the second option leads to justifiable questioning of why only the first.  

I know you've already been told this a number of times in this thread, but not having a test option does not lead to "justifiable questioning" of why have a vaccination only policy, despite what you think.

 

The fact of the matter is that vaccination is the number one way to curb the spread of any infectious virus.  This is not up for debate.

[djp14150]

11 hours ago, Sundancer said:

FYI for fans out of state who don’t want to bring their vaccine card with them to games, you can get cleared through the Clear app according to the announcement. I don’t want that card in my pocket at the game and already went through their process. This may be in this thread somewhere already. 
 

 

a few weeks ago I went to an eagles concert in dc at the indoor arena in DC ( where capitals and wizards play).  They required vaccinations.  There was an app you can get the records attached to your electronic ticket.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

i am not quite sure your point, but i will say i also have hesitancy believing all numbers from the CDC as gospel. I am not sure if this still is the case, but as of August it certainly was.

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/less-than-0-01-percent-of-vaccinated-americans-developed-severe-covid-breakthrough-case-cdc-says/?taid=61120183e3628400019e2469&utm_campaign=trueanthem&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

 

So one hand if you are vaxed , show symptoms, and test positive,  but are not hospitalized, you are not counted as a positive or a breakthrough.

 

Whether or not it is (and that reads like one of those "truth but not whole truth" things to me), it doesn't apply to the studies I mentioned and which were being dismissed as "I don't believe the CDC" by a guy here.  One of them was a large study of healthcare workers (vaccinated and unvaccinated) who have been followed since January.  They agree to be tested every week.  All positive test results were included as cases.  It's quite sterling work.

 

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

My final thought, the new Israli tudy, granted preprint,  i think shows pretty definitely natural immunity is stronger than vax. I think a positive antibody test should be accepted as well.

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

 

This is the pre-print, unreviewed study I alluded to earlier when I said I have questions about it.  They had health records on 2.5 MILLION people.  They pulled a subset of 18,000 matched vaccinated and unvaccinated people from that 2.5 million person dataset.  That's 1.4%.  Population studies like this are "outside my lane", but if I went to my former boss and told him I'd selected a 1.4% subset of my data to analyze he'd have told me to "GTFO and come back with the full dataset".  I think it raises questions about whether, in trying to match the reference and experiment group and limiting the dataset so severely, they inadvertently introduced other bias factors they weren't aware of.  Maybe it's well done, like I said it's a bit outside my lane.  So Imma wait until that one gets peer-reviewed and published, especially as it's out-of-sync with several reasonably sized studies in US, UK, and Europe which show good natural immunity slotting in with vaccine-induced immunity (better than some, not as good as others).

 

Point is, in expressing hesitance about that study, I can give reasons, I'm not just "I don't believe data from Israel" or something.

 

Not a fan of antibody tests for several reasons.  Natural immunity is important, no doubt, and deserves consideration, but show me a positive RT-PCR test. 

 

I would have liked to see negative test results within 48 hrs accepted myself, but I don't know the demographics of vaccinated vs unvaccinated ticket holders.  I can see the potential for real logistical issues and a burden on WNY testing capacity or for a high false negative rate, depending upon test choice. 

 

It Is What It is.

 

[JoPoy88]

49 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:

The only that irritates me thing about the policy is that it isn't extending to everyone in the stadium (players, media, staff, etc.).  Pretty sure MSG is not allowing NBA players to play in the stadium that aren't vaccinated.  

The various vax requirements now apply to everyone in the stadium except players. Seems a bit unfair yes, but the players had their own negotiations and their union was able to successfully fight off a vaccination mandate.

 

FYI, the same goes for the NBA players as far as I know. Everything I’ve read on them recently has said that a vaccine mandate for players is a non-starter. They will not agree to it. So I’m not sure how MSG or Barclay’s is going to attempt to enforce that, beyond cancelling games at those venues altogether.

 

edit: link about the NBA (sorry for the google link): https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32208394/sources-nba-players-required-get-covid-19-vaccination%3Fplatform%3Damp

Edited September 15, 2021 by JoPoy88

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

anyone know how to get a digital card besides clear (expensive) if you don’t live in a state that offers it?  Since the CDC has the info of who is vaxxed, is there an app or national method?  Would be nice for CDC to make one available.  

 

Plenz described above, with a link.  Three Cheers!  https://www.clearme.com/vaccine-validation

[SCBills]

17 minutes ago, SDS said:

and yet you spent the day discussing natural immunity with a test. You kept discussing how it’s the safest of all options and then when called out on it regarding practicality, you change your entire assertion. 🤔

It is.. and they aren’t allowed into the stadium.   Natural immunity is a massive number in this country and yet, we can’t speak of it?

 

Of course, asking people to get antibody tests or show paperwork of when they were diagnosed is a logistical nightmare so…

 

Do what most everyone else with a covid policy is doing… 

 

((Vaccine Card or 72 hour Negative Test))

 

I’ve already explained this in this thread.  
 

-I’ve explained who the safest people to be around are:  Naturally immune with a negative test.   

 

-Ive explained that this is a large number based off the available data. 
 

-Ive explained that they aren’t allowed in the stadium under our guidelines 
 

-Ive explained that it’s a logistical nightmare to verify natural immunity.  

Therefore:
 

-Ive explained vaccine card/no test AND negative test only, aren’t full proof in stopping the spread of covid at an event.  
 

-Ive explained that they, HOWEVER, are the two safest options. 
 

-Ive explained that the vast majority of event centers in this country with a covid protocol ask for either a vaccine card or 72 hour negative test.  

It’s a reasonable question to ask why Erie County has adopted the most extreme policy in this country, one only enforced by a handful of stadiums/arenas. 

It’s reasonable to ask why a covid positive vaxxed person can go to the stadium, but not a covid negative unvaxxed person. 

 

Edited September 15, 2021 by SCBills

[djp14150]

16 hours ago, SCBills said:

You should consult the information relating to this on the CDC’s website

 

younger population has better immune system than an older one.  They likely aren’t on various Medication that is interfering with immune response.

 

as you get older your metabolism changes and you gain weight. You also develop other medical conditions which make it harder.  Anyone who is blaming being overweight is not doing actual analysis.

 

based on current definitions of BMI pro athletes in the nfl who are 6-4+ are classified as obese by BMI.  Being overweight is not well defined.  There has been much research in peop,e are very healthy but might not be viewed as such because they didn’t fit an ideal.

 

the way they found Covid exists was when people who didn’t have any medical conditions and young got deadly sick.

[MasterStrategist]

9 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It is.. and they aren’t allowed into the stadium.   Natural immunity is a massive number in this country and yet, we can’t speak of it?

 

Of course, asking people to get antibody tests or show paperwork of when they were diagnosed is a logistical nightmare so…

 

Do what most everyone else with a covid policy is doing… 

 

((Vaccine Card or 72 hour Negative Test))

 

I’ve already explained this in this thread.  
 

-I’ve explained who the safest people to be around are:  Naturally immune with a negative test.   

 

-Ive explained that this is a large number based off the available data. 
 

-Ive explained that they aren’t allowed in the stadium under our guidelines 
 

-Ive explained that it’s a logistical nightmare to verify natural immunity.  

Therefore:
 

-Ive explained neither vaccine card/no test AND negative test only, aren’t full proof in stopping the spread of covid at an event.  
 

-Ive explained that they, HOWEVER, are the two safest options. 
 

-Ive explained that the vast majority of event centers in this country with a covid protocol ask for either a vaccine card or 72 hour negative test.  

It’s a reasonable question to ask why Erie County has adopted the most extreme policy in this country, one only enforced by a handful of stadiums/arenas. 

It’s reasonable to ask why a covid positive vaxxed person can go to the stadium, but not a covid negative unvaxxed person. 

 

Couple key points you are missing:

1. If they did the COVID testing option, like last playoffs, it was only at stadium parking lot.  That already put a burden on the team and Healthcare labs/others to get that organized.  Not to mention that option made it challenging for out of state fans to attend

 

2. Unvaccinnated and Negative test & MASK.  the capitalized part was the rules for opener and as mentioned by many, and I can attest as I attended, that very few had a mask on (can't imagine 98% fans were vaccinated).  

 

The team already gave thr general public a chance to abide by the rules, and they did not. 

 

By the way, if you are going to be this upset, go take 30 min to get the jab.  Already spent more time posting about this topic.  I understand it's your freedom to not get a vaccine that is FDA approved, but if you truly want to attend the games then you have a choice.  

[Captain Caveman]

35 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Vaccine Card or Negative Test

 

Its that simple.  
 

The vast majority of event centers in this country that have a covid policy, have this one.   
 

Negating the second option leads to justifiable questioning of why only the first.  

 

They had a guy from Pegula Sports and Entertainment on WGR this morning.  They asked this question, and he gave several reasons.

 

1. Negative Test without vaccination still leaves too much room for error and would require masks (the County would still have required masks) which becomes an enforcement and game day experience problem.

2. They know they already face a challenge getting fans in the stands in a reasonable time frame before kickoff.  Adding a check of negative tests (and where do the tests come from, are they valid, etc...) would complicate things and make it more difficult to do so. 

 

I tend to think #2 is the biggest reason why they are not doing this.  Last year when negative test was accepted before the playoff games it had to go through the Bills' vendor, and it was pretty airtight.  That was for 6000 people for two games, they're not gonna do the same for 30,000 or more every other week.  And they're not going to risk people faking negative test results, which I think would be much easier than faking a vaccination card (although I know that also can be done.)

 

These are reasonable explanations.  I'm sure they won't seem so to you (or at least you won't admit it.)

[Captain Caveman]

32 minutes ago, SCBills said:

It’s reasonable to ask why a covid positive vaxxed person can go to the stadium, but not a covid negative unvaxxed person. 
 

 

Because it is logistically difficult to verify that the person's negative test is legitimate.  And again, no one is saying a covid positive vaxxed person can go to the game, although it is understood that there will be some due to asymptomatic cases.  (Just as some who test negative may just not have sufficient virus in their body at that time to register a positive but could still infect others.)

[SCBills]

12 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Couple key points you are missing:

1. If they did the COVID testing option, like last playoffs, it was only at stadium parking lot.  That already put a burden on the team and Healthcare labs/others to get that organized.  Not to mention that option made it challenging for out of state fans to attend

 

2. Unvaccinnated and Negative test & MASK.  the capitalized part was the rules for opener and as mentioned by many, and I can attest as I attended, that very few had a mask on (can't imagine 98% fans were vaccinated).  

 

The team already gave thr general public a chance to abide by the rules, and they did not. 

 

By the way, if you are going to be this upset, go take 30 min to get the jab.  Already spent more time posting about this topic.  I understand it's your freedom to not get a vaccine that is FDA approved, but if you truly want to attend the games then you have a choice.  

I don’t think anyone should be responsible to pay for/arrange testing aside from the unvaccinated fan.   
 

We have plenty of testing available down south where the numbers are higher, and many event centers inside GA/SC cities have covid test/vax requirements.   No issues in getting one as long as you plan ahead and schedule a rapid test a few days out. 
 

Masks are not necessary when outside and everyone is vaxxed or has a negative test.. just another example of authority disciplining their people and then blaming it on other people.  
 

It’s not just about this - it’s about the past 18 months.. it’s about the next 18 months.  I don’t expect people who are ok with all this government control to understand that sentiment.   While that point isn’t directly Highmark/Vax Mandate related, it is tangentially, given they keep pushing and pushing and it doesn’t seem like it will stop until we, collectively, stop taking it. 

[Captain Caveman]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

No issues in getting one as long as you plan ahead and schedule a rapid test a few days out. 

 

A test from 3-4 days ago saying you were negative does not mean that you are negative now.  It's not the assurance that you seem to think it is.  Testing is great in a situation with high vaccination rate (70 - 80% or higher) and or low community spread, it doesn't really do enough in the situation we are currently in.

[WotAGuy]

7 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 While that point isn’t directly Highmark/Vax Mandate related, it is tangentially, given they keep pushing and pushing and it doesn’t seem like it will stop until we, collectively, stop taking it. 

Given you don’t live where all this outrage (for you) is taking place, I would think you’d be a happier camper. 

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I don’t think anyone should be responsible to pay for/arrange testing aside from the unvaccinated fan.   
 

We have plenty of testing available down south where the numbers are higher, and many event centers inside GA/SC cities have covid test/vax requirements.   No issues in getting one as long as you plan ahead and schedule a rapid test a few days out. 
 

Masks are not necessary when outside and everyone is vaxxed or has a negative test.. just another example of authority disciplining their people and then blaming it on other people.  
 

It’s not just about this - it’s about the past 18 months.. it’s about the next 18 months.  I don’t expect people who are ok with all this government control to understand that sentiment.   While that point isn’t directly Highmark/Vax Mandate related, it is tangentially, given they keep pushing and pushing and it doesn’t seem like it will stop until we, collectively, stop taking it. 

Regardless of the motivation behind this decision, it is a big leap to say this is government control by any means.

 

Up Bills organization to make any rule and enforce them, as they choose.  It could be as polarizing as vaccines, or not allowing an intoxicated fan to purchase alcohol at a vendor in the stadium. Where do we draw the line? Where each of us want?  Again, it's up to the team.  

 

Then, in turn, nobody is forcing anyone to get vaccinated.  Your choice, your freedom, just like the Bills choice and their freedom.

 

And negative covid testing would absolutely be enforced like last season.  It would be through a single provider/lab, just like the NFL.  

 

As far as masking outside (for non vaccinated), please point me to the data that has studied NFL-like events with 70k fans screaming/droplets flying and hi-fiving/hugging.  To me, that's no different than being inside if someone accidentally spits on you while screaming.

 

I'm for personal choice too, but not limiting businesses choices in the manner.  Up to you if you want to abide by the new rules, or find other means to enjoy the entertainment. 

 

[Returntoglory]

Am I the only one finding it a bit hypocritical that those who enter the stadium have to be vaccinated to protect not only the other fans, employees, etc. BUT also the players?

 

These same players who(albeit a handful) refuse to get vaccinated themselves?

 

They have a choice in the matter. We as fans do not. 

 

🙄

 

 

[MasterStrategist]

Just now, Returntoglory said:

Am I the only one finding it a bit hypocritical that those who enter the stadium have to be vaccinated to protect not only the other fans, employees, etc. BUT also the players?

 

These same players who(albeit a handful) refuse to get vaccinated themselves?

 

They have a choice in the matter. We as fans do not. 

 

🙄

 

 

And are you interacting with the players?

 

Must be alot of Lambeau leaps

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

It is.. and they aren’t allowed into the stadium.   Natural immunity is a massive number in this country and yet, we can’t speak of it?

 

Of course, asking people to get antibody tests or show paperwork of when they were diagnosed is a logistical nightmare so…

 

Do what most everyone else with a covid policy is doing… 

 

((Vaccine Card or 72 hour Negative Test))

 

Dude, give it a rest.  Is natural immunity important, sure it is.  No one is saying you can't speak of it.  But there is no definitive evidence that people with "natural immunity" and a negative recent antigen test are "the safest people to be around"., That's your personal Beaten Horse, and you're not discussing it - you're treating it as unquestionable dogma.

 

They clearly could have asked for a vaccine card or a negative test.  I don't know why they didn't.  Maybe they looked at fan demographics and decided they would overload the RT-PCR testing capacity of WNY.  Maybe they looked at the logistics of asking ushers to review documented negative tests and decided it was a nightmare.  Maybe they had a modeling team look at the impact of the false negative rate of antigen tests and said "Oh Hell Noes".

 

You don't know why they didn't either, but you're strongly asserting it's not motivated by public health, again, as unquestionable dogma.

 

Then you get into all sorts of other stuff, "never-ending overreach" "abuse of power".  It doesn't belong here.  Give it a rest.